Lawrence St Posted December 16, 2023 Share #351 Posted December 16, 2023 6 hours ago, Vulturious said: Is it really necessary to be putting CBTC on the ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted December 16, 2023 Share #352 Posted December 16, 2023 29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said: Is it really necessary to be putting CBTC on the ? Considering the has the oldest signal system in the system and CBTC being implemented to streamline the system, might as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted December 16, 2023 Share #353 Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) Everything that deals with CBTC are still in their testing and revise phase. Simply put, ATS-B was programmed by people who never had to dispatch trains. It really does not help that it is not made by the same company that created I-Trac. It's very cumbersome to use which makes it hard to make changes on the fly. Schoolcar knows how bad it is and are trying to get the vendor to respond and make changes, but that takes time. Trains can get tagged wrong and then the ID can't be swapped or removed because of bugs they gotta work out. So train operators like RTOMan may have noticed that their train is tagged as an Extra. ID's can be lost on the way to CBTC territory because of track circuit failures perceived in ATS-B and the dispatcher responsible for IDing trains likely have not noticed cause there's a bajillion things to keep track of. Automated IDs is still going to be a long way out because the road is not perfect and there are put-in's and layups to be made that can mess with the IDs if they don't catch it in time and make changes on ATS-B. It's hard to flex intervals on ATS-B. It's hard to make changes to what crew is on the train. ETC, ETC, ETC It's very counterintuitive compared to I-Trac. Edited December 16, 2023 by Jericho 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 16, 2023 Share #354 Posted December 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: Is that 1347 also an ECHO from Parsons ? I’m just curious how far it traveled before the problem was noticed. I’ve personally left the terminal and after 2 stops I fail to get a lineup into the 3rd station. Two separate lines, New Lots and Flatbush, and both incidents were at interlocking locations. Who’s responsible for this, human or computer? My original complaint was that I traveled 26 minutes S/B from the terminal through a complex interlocking area at East 180th Street while in constant contact with RCC on.the radio. Train arrives on time according to the timetable, the tower operator, and RCC yet they see my follower get a straight lineup into and out of the station while I am stuck in the loop. The riders actually run down the stairs to get on my train because there is no in sight on the upper level. They don’t blame me. Carry on. The ID kicks in at Kew Gardens for the and .. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 16, 2023 Share #355 Posted December 16, 2023 35 minutes ago, Jericho said: Everything that deals with CBTC are still in their testing and revise phase. Simply put, ATS-B was programmed by people who never had to dispatch trains. It really does not help that it is not made by the same company that created I-Trac. It's very cumbersome to use which makes it hard to make changes on the fly. Schoolcar knows how bad it is and are trying to get the vendor to respond and make changes, but that takes time. Trains can get tagged wrong and then the ID can't be swapped or removed because of bugs they gotta work out. So train operators like RTOMan may have noticed that their train is tagged as an Extra. ID's can be lost on the way to CBTC territory because of track circuit failures perceived in ATS-B and the dispatcher responsible for IDing trains likely have not noticed cause there's a bajillion things to keep track of. Automated IDs is still going to be a long way out because the road is not perfect and there are put-in's and layups to be made that can mess with the IDs if they don't catch it in time and make changes on ATS-B. It's hard to flex intervals on ATS-B. It's hard to make changes to what crew is on the train. ETC, ETC, ETC It's very counterintuitive compared to I-Trac. Everything you just stated is nothing but facts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 16, 2023 Share #356 Posted December 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said: It has to get from Parsons to Kew before the problem even happens right now. another possibility is that the train is still tagged for the pervious trip. IE when it enters 50th street and renters CBTC territory, it’s southbound ID is still attached. That problem they seem to have fixed with the Foxes.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 16, 2023 Share #357 Posted December 16, 2023 9 hours ago, RTOMan said: That problem they seem to have fixed with the Foxes.... happened to me yesterday on a Romeo coming into the plaza. Still tagged for the southbound trip. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 16, 2023 Share #358 Posted December 16, 2023 15 hours ago, Jericho said: Everything that deals with CBTC are still in their testing and revise phase. Simply put, ATS-B was programmed by people who never had to dispatch trains. It really does not help that it is not made by the same company that created I-Trac. It's very cumbersome to use which makes it hard to make changes on the fly. Schoolcar knows how bad it is and are trying to get the vendor to respond and make changes, but that takes time. Trains can get tagged wrong and then the ID can't be swapped or removed because of bugs they gotta work out. So train operators like RTOMan may have noticed that their train is tagged as an Extra. ID's can be lost on the way to CBTC territory because of track circuit failures perceived in ATS-B and the dispatcher responsible for IDing trains likely have not noticed cause there's a bajillion things to keep track of. Automated IDs is still going to be a long way out because the road is not perfect and there are put-in's and layups to be made that can mess with the IDs if they don't catch it in time and make changes on ATS-B. It's hard to flex intervals on ATS-B. It's hard to make changes to what crew is on the train. ETC, ETC, ETC It's very counterintuitive compared to I-Trac. Thanks for your response. It also seems to be a more accurate description of my troubles in ATS-A division. In my opinion many people are trying to blame the human factors because they don’t have any understanding of how the system works or don’t want to point their fingers in the other direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted December 18, 2023 Share #359 Posted December 18, 2023 On 12/15/2023 at 11:41 PM, Lawrence St said: Is it really necessary to be putting CBTC on the ? Considering the fact that the has some of the oldest signals in the system on top of being Sandwiched in between 2 already existing CBTC Zones (although Culver is a bit of a Special Case atm), yes. Yes it is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Fly Guy Posted December 18, 2023 Share #360 Posted December 18, 2023 On 12/8/2023 at 7:58 AM, RTOMan said: OCC now controls the interlockings at the Plaza area as well as Roosevelt ave. Trains are IDd at Kew Gardens SB and Fifth ave NB, line ups come in based on train IDs. And crosstown will be done soon for flexible purposes the contractors f**ked up the relays MOW is pissed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Fly Guy Posted December 18, 2023 Share #361 Posted December 18, 2023 4 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: Considering the fact that the has some of the oldest signals in the system on top of being Sandwiched in between 2 already existing CBTC Zones (although Culver is a bit of a Special Case atm), yes. Yes it is. It has more to do with Flexibility then necessarily needed it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacster Posted December 19, 2023 Share #362 Posted December 19, 2023 23 hours ago, Nova Fly Guy said: It has more to do with Flexibility then necessarily needed it. It has to do with them needing to replace them anyway as the oldest in the system. It's the reason that the IND was given priority over the Lex even though the Lex needs it more. The Lex signals were already redone but the IND still has the original signals in places. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTA Posted December 21, 2023 Share #363 Posted December 21, 2023 On 12/15/2023 at 11:41 PM, Lawrence St said: Is it really necessary to be putting CBTC on the ? Did you think it was necessary to put CBTC on the and ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 21, 2023 Share #364 Posted December 21, 2023 I should see in my great big collection, between myself and my late grandpa, if there is a 90s era L timetable so we can really compare just how much of change there is. when everything is running smoothly, there is currently a train every 3-6 minutes all day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted December 23, 2023 Share #365 Posted December 23, 2023 As of December 2023, this is what I can say is the current status regarding Systemwide CBTC Installation in the Subway System with the Information that I have and according to the Capital Dashboard website. I'll be focusing mostly on the status of the lines themselves and won't go too much into the nitty griddy of whats going on: Canarsie Line - 100% Complete Flushing Line - 100% Complete Queens Blvd Line (West) - 97% Complete Phase 1 is Complete while Phase 2 is 94% Complete. Software issues with the line in regards to interoperability between the 2 Suppliers. (Siemens and Thales) So Contractors have to make minor software updates in the Zone Controllers between 50 St-08 Av and Kew Gardens-Union Tpke Culver Line - 82% Complete Inconsisencies between the Track ties and the Rails are whats holding this project back from going Online. In addition. the Bergen Street SSI/Interlockings are either undergoing or are set to undergo a Replacement. I swear, that thing fails like, every other day... 8th Avenue Line - 75% Complete Main thing holding this project back is the delay in the R-211 Order which is its own fiasco. Besides that, an ongoing GO on A5 Track is still occuring. (If that has anything to do with the New Relay Room, then I wouldn't be surprised). The Interlockings/Switch north of 42nd-8th, connecting D3 Track to A1/A3 Tracks have been replaced. (IDK the Switch Number to be exact). Also, some Zone Controllers/SSI Equipment are up in some locations whereas others are in the process of being installed. Last time I had a job at Canal Street RR, the SSI and Zone Controllers weren't even ready yet. IDK if thats changed. Queens Blvd Line (East) -29% Complete TBH I haven't kept up with too much lately regarding this project. AFAIW, installation started in March, saw a ton of wires hanging out from Briarwood-Van Wyck. Also heard from our fellow RTO Employee's here that Parsons Blvd (Hillside) has a Zone Controller now. Does that mean it also has an SSI or no? Crosstown Line - 6% Complete Work literally just started on this line a week ago or so, but I've noticed that Transponders are all over the line now. Also, 3 Interlockings are planned to be replaced. The Nassau Avenue and BedNos Relay Rooms are set to be decomissioned and thats about as far as I know regarding Crosstown. IK Contracotrs have something set up at 21-Van Alst so I wouldn't be surprised if I saw a CBTC room or a Train Control Room show up there at some point. Fulton Street Line - 0% Complete While the lawsuit from NJ against Congestion Pricing may or may not delay this project. Its good that it'll complement 8th Avenue CBTC. Transponders are already Set up and a few Interlockings (Most notable the Jay Street Interlockings) are due for an upgrade/replacement, which will affect the and Lines given that they're in the area. Beyond that, I know little to nothing of this project. 6th Avenue/63rd Street Line's - 0% Complete IIRC, the Interlockings and Switches around 34th Street and West 4th got funding for replacements/upgrades back in June. (My memory is a bit fuzzy on that so forgive me on that.) Outside of that and that the new Dispatch Tower at 34th-6th has been active for some time, I am completely in the dark on this project. Thats pretty much it on the status of each project. I'm not going to mention any CBTC Projects that were postponed for Future Capital Plans. I am still working on a comprehensive timeline for my CBTC Progression Sheet but otherwise, its coming along nicely: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rJ6Pm3XYACHCyMT-WdW8PSEiLuGckFw4rCb_xNtySqo/edit#gid=0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 23, 2023 Share #366 Posted December 23, 2023 8 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: Queens Blvd Line (East) -29% Complete TBH I haven't kept up with too much lately regarding this project. AFAIW, installation started in March, saw a ton of wires hanging out from Briarwood-Van Wyck. Also heard from our fellow RTO Employee's here that Parsons Blvd (Hillside) has a Zone Controller now. Does that mean it also has an SSI or no? As of Now they have stopped with the late night CBTC GOs in that area until after the new years.. Not sure if They have a Zone Controller there but they have been having issues IDing trains out of 179... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielhg121 Posted December 23, 2023 Share #367 Posted December 23, 2023 12 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: As of December 2023, this is what I can say is the current status regarding Systemwide CBTC Installation in the Subway System with the Information that I have and according to the Capital Dashboard website. No idea this existed. Thanks for sharing! Lots of information on projects we're all curious about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted December 24, 2023 Share #368 Posted December 24, 2023 15 hours ago, danielhg121 said: No idea this existed. Thanks for sharing! Lots of information on projects we're all curious about. Yup, its been around for a while so have fun exploring contracts and plans from the current capital program dating back to past Capital Programs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 3 Share #369 Posted March 3 Oh i totally forgot about this i guess now that im switching i dont pay attention that much to Road stuff.. CBTC in effect on this dates along the Culver... From Kings Highway to West 8th Street all tracks.. Effective 2200 hours on Friday, March I, 2024 - 2359 hours on Sunday March 3, 2024. Effective 2200 hours on Friday. March 8, 2024 - 2359 hours on Sunday March I 0, 2024. Effective 2200 hours on Friday, March 15, 2024 - 2359 hours on Sunday March 17, 2024. So some of yall can go outside and see those flashing greens... IF its in effect though maybe someone can verify.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 3 Share #370 Posted March 3 Oh and ATO is supposed to be in Effect in Queens as well.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 3 Share #371 Posted March 3 3 hours ago, RTOMan said: Oh and ATO is supposed to be in Effect in Queens as well.... Wasn’t familiar that Culver CBTC was only testing on Weekends but as of February 28th, 2024. ATO has been in effect on QBL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 4 Share #372 Posted March 4 5 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: Wasn’t familiar that Culver CBTC was only testing on Weekends but as of February 28th, 2024. ATO has been in effect on QBL Actually it was shut off when the entire network shutdown... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texassubwayfan555 Posted March 4 Share #373 Posted March 4 11 hours ago, RTOMan said: Oh and ATO is supposed to be in Effect in Queens as well.... I thought the MTA never used that functionality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 4 Share #374 Posted March 4 2 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said: I thought the MTA never used that functionality. The Canarsie and Flushing Lines would like a word about that… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 4 Share #375 Posted March 4 4 hours ago, RTOMan said: Actually it was shut off when the entire network shutdown... I see. Part of me assumed that ATO was in full swing for much longer since every time we have to call on flagging, RCC has to inhibit ATO before we can even step foot onto the right of way to set up lights, work (if its Point to Point), etc.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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