RestrictOnTheHanger Posted December 8, 2023 Share #326 Posted December 8, 2023 1 minute ago, RTOMan said: OCC now controls the interlockings at the Plaza area as well as Roosevelt ave. Trains are IDd at Kew Gardens SB and Fifth ave NB, line ups come in based on train IDs. What is OCC? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 8, 2023 Share #327 Posted December 8, 2023 6 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said: What is OCC? Thier new name.. Operations Control Center.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 10, 2023 Share #328 Posted December 10, 2023 should note that RTOMan is one of only a handful of people who have been calling them that. Most are still calling it RCC, including control itself... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 10, 2023 Share #329 Posted December 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said: should note that RTOMan is one of only a handful of people who have been calling them that. Most are still calling it RCC, including control itself... Yep which i find hilarious considering they had a Bulletin out about it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestrictOnTheHanger Posted December 11, 2023 Share #330 Posted December 11, 2023 When ATO and or ATS are activated, will lineups still be given by RCC/OCC or will they eventually be "automated"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLine Posted December 11, 2023 Share #331 Posted December 11, 2023 ATS should automate it for the most part. ATO shouldn't affect lineups. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 12, 2023 Share #332 Posted December 12, 2023 they will require the trains to be tagged in the system and that doesn't always work. Sometimes you get someone else's ID, sometimes you get a random jumble of Lord only knows what... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 13, 2023 Share #333 Posted December 13, 2023 On 12/11/2023 at 8:12 PM, Kamen Rider said: they will require the trains to be tagged in the system and that doesn't always work. Sometimes you get someone else's ID, sometimes you get a random jumble of Lord only knows what... I know exactly what you’re saying. 5 days a week We’d leave the terminal on time but 26 minutes later we’d be held in the loop at 149th Street and the Concourse while my so called follower from Woodlawn would get a lineup into and out of the station. Next gap station at 125 and Lexington we would be 5-6 minutes late. I would blame the ATS for the lateness and the Lexington train dispatchers finally figured it out. The RCC dispatcher handling my section of the Bronx would have me give him radio checks enroute down to the Concourse. He was formerly the ATD at Dyre and Bowling Green. He and the tower operator saw that when the ATS was turned off up there we were always on time but when the system was activated we were always late. The sad part was that I always had two motor instructors riding with me on their way home who vouched for me and my Conductor yet the powers that be tried to defend the ATS system every chance they could. They actually tried to ignore my defenders who watched the issues daily. I heard that they actually had to pad the running time for that particular interval after my Conductor and I picked another job . It amazes me that so many people are blinded by the technology that they ignore what’s going on in front of them. My opinion. Carry on. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 13, 2023 Share #334 Posted December 13, 2023 when we enter CBTC territory, the computers on the train “localize” with the system and on both of our screens should have our call letters in full. most of the time… sometimes it will just be nonsense. Like “oX 1234 42 169” or something like that. then when have to call control, tell them who we are and where we are and get them to fix it, which sometimes takes time. Imagine me as a Fox express a few weeks back begging them from Kew Gardens to Jackson Heights to fix it. Because even when sharing the 53rd street tube, you can’t proceed out of Jackson Heights without proper ID. and when control is in Panic mode? Good luck with that. Thank God my XL North job starting next week doesn’t have the Queens corridor until the M returns to Forest Hills next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacster Posted December 13, 2023 Share #335 Posted December 13, 2023 I've identified the problem with this. Human intervention. You blame the mistakes on the computer but it is the human running it that makes the mistake. Yea, I know, there is the trope "to err is human, but to really foul things up takes a computer". But the computer doesn't nod off, take a leak, stop for coffee... Coming from IT I saw it everyday. I'd get a call, go to their office, watch them try to do something and not accept the fact that the answer was right all along, or conversely appear at the door and everything worked as it should in the first place. I had this annoying habit of always being right or knowing exactly what they did wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 13, 2023 Share #336 Posted December 13, 2023 50 minutes ago, zacster said: I've identified the problem with this. Human intervention. You blame the mistakes on the computer but it is the human running it that makes the mistake. Yea, I know, there is the trope "to err is human, but to really foul things up takes a computer". But the computer doesn't nod off, take a leak, stop for coffee... Coming from IT I saw it everyday. I'd get a call, go to their office, watch them try to do something and not accept the fact that the answer was right all along, or conversely appear at the door and everything worked as it should in the first place. I had this annoying habit of always being right or knowing exactly what they did wrong. Heh... Bingo.. "You are an imperfect being designed by a imperfect being"... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 13, 2023 Share #337 Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kamen Rider said: when we enter CBTC territory, the computers on the train “localize” with the system and on both of our screens should have our call letters in full. most of the time… sometimes it will just be nonsense. Like “oX 1234 42 169” or something like that. then when have to call control, tell them who we are and where we are and get them to fix it, which sometimes takes time. Imagine me as a Fox express a few weeks back begging them from Kew Gardens to Jackson Heights to fix it. Because even when sharing the 53rd street tube, you can’t proceed out of Jackson Heights without proper ID. and when control is in Panic mode? Good luck with that. Thank God my XL North job starting next week doesn’t have the Queens corridor until the M returns to Forest Hills next year. For next pick I went switching so my CBTC adventure as far as I can see it will be Over... By the time they'll have it fully Online In queens I most likely wont be there finishing my time down here.. It wasn't fun while it lasted.... Edited December 13, 2023 by RTOMan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 14, 2023 Share #338 Posted December 14, 2023 On 12/11/2023 at 12:59 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said: When ATO and or ATS are activated, will lineups still be given by RCC/OCC or will they eventually be "automated"? They prob wont even try to activate ATO until they have it all connected from Jamaica and Parsons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 15, 2023 Share #339 Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 8:54 AM, zacster said: I've identified the problem with this. Human intervention. You blame the mistakes on the computer but it is the human running it that makes the mistake. Yea, I know, there is the trope "to err is human, but to really foul things up takes a computer". But the computer doesn't nod off, take a leak, stop for coffee... Coming from IT I saw it everyday. I'd get a call, go to their office, watch them try to do something and not accept the fact that the answer was right all along, or conversely appear at the door and everything worked as it should in the first place. I had this annoying habit of always being right or knowing exactly what they did wrong. Believe me when I say that agree with you to a point. It’s not the system per se but the implementation and integration with the existing infrastructure. The system should have been implemented with an overhaul of the TIMETABLE. In RTO the timetable is the Bible. Work programs, schedules, connections, lunch times are part of the work programs that are laid out in the TIMETABLE. When I was in school car as a C/R we were trained in the details of dispatching, scheduling and the interconnections between the main IRT lines. My mentor sat down with a few of my fellow students and I and taught us about the importance of timetables and dispatching. . Back then there were 3 lines that were focused on. the , and the .That’s because they were the full time interborough lines. The other ones were just shuttle services. The covered the Bronx and local to the ferry. The covered the Bronx and the West Side and ran express in Manhattan. The was the Bronx and the Manhattan local and ran local in Brooklyn. The and were shuttle trains that connected with one of those main routes. When the shuttle service resumed full time ridership those overnight connections were blended into full length routes and service expanded many overnight connections were eliminated in order to avoid bottlenecks. In other words build out the service. What I saw with the introduction of the new ATS system was just an overlay on top of the existing system. There was another reason for the new system to be quickly introduced which I won’t get into but it became obvious that certain places became bottlenecks where different routes intersected. The new system would give a lineup to a train going straight ahead rather than one entering or diverging from the main line. Imagine making the same interval at the same time for 10+ years with the same riders, many traveling from the NE Bronx to Flatbush. I’m not going to blame the system but rather the people who signed off and implemented it without thinking it through. I complained about my own interval southbound but if you read the threads regularly you’ll see that the same thing happens NB at President Street on a regular basis. Just my thoughts. Carry on. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubBus Posted December 15, 2023 Share #340 Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 9:53 AM, RTOMan said: For next pick I went switching so my CBTC adventure as far as I can see it will be Over... By the time they'll have it fully Online In queens I most likely wont be there finishing my time down here.. It wasn't fun while it lasted.... Lol.... I hear the northbound s all the time @ 50-8 asking for proper ID before proceeding... BTW, good for you. You definitely earned it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubBus Posted December 15, 2023 Share #341 Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/12/2023 at 11:08 PM, Trainmaster5 said: I know exactly what you’re saying. 5 days a week We’d leave the terminal on time but 26 minutes later we’d be held in the loop at 149th Street and the Concourse while my so called follower from Woodlawn would get a lineup into and out of the station. Next gap station at 125 and Lexington we would be 5-6 minutes late. I would blame the ATS for the lateness and the Lexington train dispatchers finally figured it out. The RCC dispatcher handling my section of the Bronx would have me give him radio checks enroute down to the Concourse. He was formerly the ATD at Dyre and Bowling Green. He and the tower operator saw that when the ATS was turned off up there we were always on time but when the system was activated we were always late. The sad part was that I always had two motor instructors riding with me on their way home who vouched for me and my Conductor yet the powers that be tried to defend the ATS system every chance they could. They actually tried to ignore my defenders who watched the issues daily. I heard that they actually had to pad the running time for that particular interval after my Conductor and I picked another job . It amazes me that so many people are blinded by the technology that they ignore what’s going on in front of them. My opinion. Carry on. Lol, we know the is the king of Lexington Ave. Wait your turn, sir 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2023 Share #342 Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, SubBus said: Lol.... I hear the northbound s all the time @ 50-8 asking for proper ID before proceeding... BTW, good for you. You definitely earned it... Yep I'm sometimes calling at fifth ave when I see no ID... I tell T/Os all the time if your train isn't IDd you aren't getting past the Plaza that Homeball will stay at Danger. Edited December 15, 2023 by RTOMan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2023 Share #343 Posted December 15, 2023 8 hours ago, SubBus said: Lol, we know the is the king of Lexington Ave. Wait your turn, sir Its is.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2023 Share #344 Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/11/2023 at 8:12 PM, Kamen Rider said: they will require the trains to be tagged in the system and that doesn't always work. Sometimes you get someone else's ID, sometimes you get a random jumble of Lord only knows what... That 1341 cho out of Parsons at least twice a week gets tagged as a 1347... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2023 Share #345 Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/11/2023 at 1:16 PM, RedLine said: ATS should automate it for the most part. ATO shouldn't affect lineups. Oh yeah can imagine ATO in effect going over some of those switches that are nice and tight like the ones leaving the plaza both directions.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacster Posted December 15, 2023 Share #346 Posted December 15, 2023 37 minutes ago, RTOMan said: That 1341 cho out of Parsons at least twice a week gets tagged as a 1347... That's my point. It took a human to mistake a 7 for a 1 or vice versa. The computer doesn't make stupid mistakes like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted December 15, 2023 Share #347 Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, zacster said: That's my point. It took a human to mistake a 7 for a 1 or vice versa. The computer doesn't make stupid mistakes like that. They trust the Computer in the A Div with ATS.. Not so much over here in the B Div as of now.. Time will tell.. Will i be around to see it? Not sure... Edited December 15, 2023 by RTOMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 15, 2023 Share #348 Posted December 15, 2023 6 hours ago, RTOMan said: That 1341 cho out of Parsons at least twice a week gets tagged as a 1347... Is that 1347 also an ECHO from Parsons ? I’m just curious how far it traveled before the problem was noticed. I’ve personally left the terminal and after 2 stops I fail to get a lineup into the 3rd station. Two separate lines, New Lots and Flatbush, and both incidents were at interlocking locations. Who’s responsible for this, human or computer? My original complaint was that I traveled 26 minutes S/B from the terminal through a complex interlocking area at East 180th Street while in constant contact with RCC on.the radio. Train arrives on time according to the timetable, the tower operator, and RCC yet they see my follower get a straight lineup into and out of the station while I am stuck in the loop. The riders actually run down the stairs to get on my train because there is no in sight on the upper level. They don’t blame me. Carry on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted December 15, 2023 Share #349 Posted December 15, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted December 16, 2023 Share #350 Posted December 16, 2023 7 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: Is that 1347 also an ECHO from Parsons ? I’m just curious how far it traveled before the problem was noticed. I’ve personally left the terminal and after 2 stops I fail to get a lineup into the 3rd station. Two separate lines, New Lots and Flatbush, and both incidents were at interlocking locations. Who’s responsible for this, human or computer? My original complaint was that I traveled 26 minutes S/B from the terminal through a complex interlocking area at East 180th Street while in constant contact with RCC on.the radio. Train arrives on time according to the timetable, the tower operator, and RCC yet they see my follower get a straight lineup into and out of the station while I am stuck in the loop. The riders actually run down the stairs to get on my train because there is no in sight on the upper level. They don’t blame me. Carry on. It has to get from Parsons to Kew before the problem even happens right now. another possibility is that the train is still tagged for the pervious trip. IE when it enters 50th street and renters CBTC territory, it’s southbound ID is still attached. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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