Systemwide CBTC - Planning and Implementation

[zacster]

I'm having a hard time picturing an R9 with an LCD screen in the cab.  It should be possible though.  Anything is possible.  I would think though the problem is lack of automatic emergency braking.

[RTOMan]

21 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Given what I’ve been exposed to, I don’t think CBTC is going to be a long term problem for the museum fleet… what WILL be problematic is the removal of lineside signals.

BUT, also, given that it tends to be just one train in the lower traffic hours… in theory control would just have to keep a constant eye on it and give it a wide berth…

That's why it wont see Queens again probably..

They are giving number nine pick up and wide berth because its not stopping anywhere past 75th Ave going SouthBound.

[RTOMan]

21 hours ago, Captain iOS BeeSwarm said:

Could they install CBTC equipment on maintenance and museum fleet trains if the lack of wayside signals becomes too much of an issue?

No and they wont. 

[RTOMan]

14 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

CBTC has multiple facets to it. The issue with the older revenue cars is to keep them in regular service, you need the entire system installed…

but it should be possible to install a bare bones system.

we don’t need ATO capabilities on the museum trains, we just need the system to know where the train is and the TO what their movement authority is.

like… you can condense the CBTC display down to something not much bigger than my phone, suction cupped to the windshield 

Longer Blocks with CBTC i know in Queens after 36th Street next signal is  leaving 46th Street..

So nothing non CBTC will Move past 36th Street signal will be at danger.

I wont even get into the switch movements at the Plaza.....

[LGA Link N Train]

Well, looks like Broadway , Liberty Avenue and the Rockaways  and the Nassau Street  Lines were all chosen to be the next Candidate Corridors for CBTC as part of the 2025-2029 Capital Program.

Interesting how in the previous Capital Program, they had Astoria Listed as Separate from the Broadway Line whereas now its consolidated along with DeKalb Junction and the Manhattan Bridge. If thats the case, I’m leading to speculate that the and would also be included for the Manhattan Bridge portion from Broadway-Lafayette to DeKalb as 6th Avenue CBTC is still in the plans and it wouldn’t make sense to only upgrade one side of the Manhattan Bridge.

Liberty and the Rockaways makes sense as a Continuation of Fulton Street considering that the Line seems to have its Signal Infrastructure prioritized for CBTC as of late. Now all thats missing is CPW from 59th Street to 207th Street.

Nassau Street seems like the weirdest choice to upgrade to CBTC at first Glance but the more I think about it, the more strategic of a choice it seems. For starters, Broadway is already planned to get CBTC through the Montague Street Tubes. The and Lines are already fully NTT for another thing. Its another form of connect the dots as to eventually complete the Line.

[SimplyMyself]

59 minutes ago, LGA Link N Train said:

Well, looks like Broadway , Liberty Avenue and the Rockaways  and the Nassau Street  Lines were all chosen to be the next Candidate Corridors for CBTC as part of the 2025-2029 Capital Program.

Interesting how in the previous Capital Program, they had Astoria Listed as Separate from the Broadway Line whereas now its consolidated along with DeKalb Junction and the Manhattan Bridge. If thats the case, I’m leading to speculate that the and would also be included for the Manhattan Bridge portion from Broadway-Lafayette to DeKalb as 6th Avenue CBTC is still in the plans and it wouldn’t make sense to only upgrade one side of the Manhattan Bridge.

Liberty and the Rockaways makes sense as a Continuation of Fulton Street considering that the Line seems to have its Signal Infrastructure prioritized for CBTC as of late. Now all thats missing is CPW from 59th Street to 207th Street.

Nassau Street seems like the weirdest choice to upgrade to CBTC at first Glance but the more I think about it, the more strategic of a choice it seems. For starters, Broadway is already planned to get CBTC through the Montague Street Tubes. The and Lines are already fully NTT for another thing. Its another form of connect the dots as to eventually complete the Line.

I just skimmed the 2025-2029 CP document for myself. What is the status on CTBC Lexington? Is that still happening, or has that been swept under the rug?  I didn’t see any mention of it. I’m sure it’ll happen eventually, but not in this capital plan, perhaps.

For anyone interested in looking at the document:

https://new.mta.info/document/151266

Edited 21 hours ago by SimplyMyself
Added link for those interested.

[Vulturious]

22 minutes ago, SimplyMyself said:

I just skimmed the 2025-2029 CP document for myself. What is the status on CTBC Lexington? Is that still happening, or has that been swept under the rug?  I didn’t see any mention of it. I’m sure it’ll happen eventually, but not in this capital plan, perhaps.

For anyone interested in looking at the document:

https://new.mta.info/document/151266

It's not happening any time soon, especially with R62/A's still running around and the R262's are still going through solicitation. It took a good while for the R211's to have a vendor to build them, it's going to most likely take just as long.

[SimplyMyself]

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

It's not happening any time soon, especially with R62/A's still running around and the R262's are still going through solicitation. It took a good while for the R211's to have a vendor to build them, it's going to most likely take just as long.

Yeah, I’m not surprised it’s been pushed back. I don’t expect the R62/As to begin retirement until the end of this decade at least, given the R262 contract hasn’t been awarded yet. Also, the mainline R142/As still have to be CBTC-equipped, but we’ll get there when we get there.

[R32 3838]

6 hours ago, Vulturious said:

It's not happening any time soon, especially with R62/A's still running around and the R262's are still going through solicitation. It took a good while for the R211's to have a vendor to build them, it's going to most likely take just as long.

The R268's will need to be ordered for this. The R211s are not enough to cover CBTC on Broadway. Even if coney gets the r160s, that's still not enough since both the and will need techs. Esp the once the and is fully tech trains.

 

Coney will have the entire R68/R68A fleet with some Tech Trains. The R68s would need to be replaced and by the time Broadway is done with CBTC, The R68s would be gone anyway.

Edited 15 hours ago by R32 3838

[Vulturious]

44 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

The R268's will need to be ordered for this. The R211s are not enough to cover CBTC on Broadway. Even if coney gets the r160s, that's still not enough since both the and will need techs. Esp the once the and is fully tech trains.

 

Coney will have the entire R68/R68A fleet with some Tech Trains. The R68s would need to be replaced and by the time Broadway is done with CBTC, The R68s would be gone anyway.

Definitely not denying that. Though, it's going to be a much smaller order, basically 1/4 of the R211 orders. One good thing that we don't necessarily need to account for in this scenario is that the MTA is slow af which is due to multiple factors that are both part of the MTA's own fault and outside factors.

[R32 3838]

7 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Definitely not denying that. Though, it's going to be a much smaller order, basically 1/4 of the R211 orders. One good thing that we don't necessarily need to account for in this scenario is that the MTA is slow af which is due to multiple factors that are both part of the MTA's own fault and outside factors.

I just saw the capital program and they are going to replace some R68s with the remaining R211s from option I/II after all the R46s are replaced.

[SimplyMyself]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

I just saw the capital program and they are going to replace some R68s with the remaining R211s from option I/II after all the R46s are replaced.

Option 2 would’ve made half of the R68s spares, with the R211s gladly taking their place. In that case, they can strip some cars for parts, to keep the other half running. 

I’d expect Broadway CBTC to coincide with the R268 rollout, that way when CBTC goes live, the  fleet will be fully compatible, since those lines will be the last with SMEEs.

Edited 13 hours ago by SimplyMyself

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, SimplyMyself said:

Option 2 would’ve made half of the R68s spares, with the R211s gladly taking their place. In that case, they can strip some cars for parts, to keep the other half running. 

I’d expect Broadway CBTC to coincide with the R268 rollout, that way when CBTC goes live, the  fleet will be fully compatible, since those lines will be the last with SMEEs.

They should keep them just in case they need to increase service "if congestion pricing still goes through" Things like this is why I'm against it because of stupid shit like this. They want to cram additional people on an already crowded system.  Oh well, they will never learn.