Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[CenSin]

What disagreement? I no longer disagree nor say a word to anyone else's ideas, since I already have my own reasons as to how the system should have been instead of the say it is now for the aforementioned reasons, such as all the bottlenecks, the Grand Concourse Line being four tracks instead of three etc. I've already explain that quite clearly and have been logical and sensible about it. Sure they do indeed have some negatives in them, but I'm being fair and simple in them.

 

All of my posts in this thread (from the post where I stated about the R32s being on the and there are 240 instead of 222 and the being permanently full-length). It just seems as if CenSin disagrees with me moving the X diamond crossover switch midway between Brighton Beach and Ocean Parkway, meaning the relays west of the station, but agrees with continuing to have it turn on the platform to avoid doing a relay. All I said was that I'm trying to keep all Manhattan-bound riders at one side and many more people dump the for the anyway and he clearly knows that. So if he doesn't like any of my history changes, that's him. I'm not going to change my opinions of what I think of the subway system nowdays. I've already made myself clear, sometimes in a more subtle way, so I don't know what kind of answer that he wants from me, unless he wants to get snide with me about it.

Well, that escalated quickly… perhaps "drawing the line" might’ve been easily confused for something else I often say. I know how long it takes to draw anything (since I do it on a daily basis), so I don’t ask for it if I don’t understand. (But since this is a public discussion anyway, it makes it more welcoming if most people could also understand.)

 

I got your point—no doubt—about your Brighton Beach suggestion, but what confuses me is why you make sweeping changes for some parts of the system while you hold back on others.

 

Sweeping changes:

• Grand Concourse line
• DeKalb Avenue junction
• Rogers Street junction
• 59 Street–Columbus Circle
• Lenox Avenue junction

(Image links were broken, so I didn’t quote.)

 

Middling changes:

• Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College

 

 

BMT Sea Beach Line: 8 Avenue, New Utrecht Avenue and Kings Highway should have been designed as express stations with four tracks and two island platforms, and the two center express tracks should have been designed for active. Current local-only service remains unchanged, however.

 

 

 

-Lorimer Street and Hewes Street stations on the BMT Jamaica Line never existed. Instead, it's Union Avenue-Broadway, where riders will have a free transfer at all times between the BMT Jamaica Line and the IND Crosstown Line. Also, Union Avenue-Broadway would have seen more daily ridership than the exiting Lorimer Street and Hewes Street stations individually.

 

-Aqueduct Racetrack and North Conduit Avenue stations on the IND Rockaway Line never exited either. Instead, it's simply Aqueduct, located between the two existing Aqueduct Racetrack and North Conduit Avenue.

 

 

Teeny changes:

 

 

In my world, there is an X diamond crossover right before the BMT Broadway local tracks split into three (and then arrive at Whitehall Street-South Ferry). This way, it would have allowed the R and W trains to swap cars (if necessary) with no problem at any given time. Remember, the weekday Brooklyn R's fleet was maintained at Coney Island's shop. So that means that it didn't really matter if Jamaica and Coney Island had to sometimes mix their R160s here and there. However, the W is only allowed to use the middle track at Whitehall Street-South Ferry (when Montague is open) to originate/terminate. At the same time, the car assignment roster is reverted back to its July 1st, 2010 implementation (when Montage returned).

 

• Switches between 18 Avenue and Ditmas Avenue (for the )

 

 

Canal Street : The southbound platform should have been equal to the northbound platform, meaning the X diamond switch should have been located to the north of the station instead of to the south of the station.

 

Queens Plaza : The X diamond crossover switch on the southbound direction is located to the west of the station instead of to the east of the station.

 

14 Street–Union Square : The southbound platform should have been equal to the northbound platform, meaning the gap fillers should have never existed. I don't think the two X diamond switches should have been designed at either end of the station either.

 

 

Some of the ideas are great, but you stop short for some other ones. It’s obvious that if you applied the same sort of sweeping changes to everything, you could create great results, but you don’t and I wanted to know why.

[trainfanrod]

So this morning i see that the daily news request the 3 and l transfer time is now

[RollOver]

@CenSin: I didn't mean to be harsh, but I'm not trying to hold back on anything. From now on, I'll try to just simply post one at a time chronologically (tracks, stations, countdown clocks, headway, rolling stock etc). Though I sorta did that already. Give me time.

Edited July 7, 2015 by RollOver

[BronxBombers]

14 Street–Union Square : The southbound platform should have been equal to the northbound platform, meaning the gap fillers should have never existed. I don't think the two X diamond switches should have been designed at either end of the station either.

 

I agree with this so much. I am pretty sure that the gap fillers at Union Sq is the reason why the Lex line gets delayed during Rush hours.

[Union Tpke]

If I was recreating the IRT on Broadway I would make the line north of 96th three tracks, with 125th, 168th, 207th, as express stations, and then the next few stations, would have all trains stop. I would make 59th Street an express station instead of 72nd Street being an express station.

[CenSin]

I agree with this so much. I am pretty sure that the gap fillers at Union Sq is the reason why the Lex line gets delayed during Rush hours.

Going a step further, straighten out the tracks. That would be a phenomenal improvement for the Lexington Avenue line.

[RollOver]

I'll re-illustrate Rogers Junction, DeKalb Avenue and the Homeball Alley bottlenecks. For now, however, I'll just post re-post these:

 

 

This is the track layout between 18 Avenue and Ditmas Avenue. Southbound trains cross over to the center track immediately after stopping at Ditmas Avenue. It clears all of its passengers out on the Coney Island-bound platform, then closes its doors, then reopens it doors on the Manhattan-bound side, waits for its scheduled departure time, then crosses back to the local track immediately after 18 Avenue, then proceeds towards its next stop, Ditmas Avenue, and above. If there's a second train behind waiting to get into 18 Avenue, it sits right outside the station on the center track (not on the local track), because remember, if you read this carefully and look at the above track design very carefully, the X diamond switch that connects between the southbound local track and the middle track is located directly south of 18 Avenue, and also, allowing any Coney Island-bound trains behind to continue south without anymore delays. 18 Avenue is the true south-terminal for the at all times, not Church Avenue.

 

 

This is the track layout south of 59 Street-Columbus Circle on the IND Eighth Avenue Line. Southbound and trains enter and leave the station at the same time, but one of them gets held in the tunnel to let the other train proceed first into 7 Avenue-53 Street. This allows southbound and trains to enter and leave the station without delays at all. Likewise heading uptown, an uptown may get held by an uptown ahead of it. So the former train is delayed an additional 2 minutes. Afterwards, the uptown behind can enter the station at the same time with the to allow an across-platform transfer. This is all based on the track layout that I designed. I'll also do a similar one for the Broadway Line north of 57 Street-7 Avenue, as well as Franklin Avenue on the Brooklyn IRT east of that station.

 

 

This is the 142nd Street junction track layout. This is how it should have been built. Also, the 145 Street station is a full 510 feet unit station. And the 135 Street station is a two-track station with two side platforms.

Edited July 8, 2015 by RollOver

[Javier]

Since this R188 conversion is getting way to much out of hand:

 

I propose a fleet swap for the following lines:

 

The gets 2 R142A's back from the

The gets 2 R142's from the

The swaps out one of its R62A sets for a set

The swaps out a R142 for the

The swaps out 4 R142's for the

The and get R62's in return and are only used during rush hours.

 

This is a thing I like to call the fleet equality program.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Since this R188 conversion is getting way to much out of hand:

 

I propose a fleet swap for the following lines:

 

The gets 2 R142A's back from the

The gets 2 R142's from the

The swaps out one of its R62A sets for a set

The swaps out a R142 for the

The swaps out 4 R142's for the

The and get R62's in return and are only used during rush hours.

 

This is a thing I like to call the fleet equality program.

Ehh. You want fleet equality, send all the R62As on the to the and give all the NTTS to the .

[BreeddekalbL]

How about making the subway to SI a reality, this time you build premade tunnels and actually put them together?

like i said what difference if you build the SI subway would the premade tunnels for river crossings like when they built the sf bart would it make any difference 

[Lance]

Since this R188 conversion is getting way to much out of hand:

 

I propose a fleet swap for the following lines:

 

The gets 2 R142A's back from the

The gets 2 R142's from the

The swaps out one of its R62A sets for a set

The swaps out a R142 for the

The swaps out 4 R142's for the

The and get R62's in return and are only used during rush hours.

 

This is a thing I like to call the fleet equality program.

I'm confused. What's gained from having all these cars in random places?

[bobtehpanda]

I'll re-illustrate Rogers Junction, DeKalb Avenue and the Homeball Alley bottlenecks. For now, however, I'll just post re-post these:

 

 

This is the track layout between 18 Avenue and Ditmas Avenue. Southbound trains cross over to the center track immediately after stopping at Ditmas Avenue. It clears all of its passengers out on the Coney Island-bound platform, then closes its doors, then reopens it doors on the Manhattan-bound side, waits for its scheduled departure time, then crosses back to the local track immediately after 18 Avenue, then proceeds towards its next stop, Ditmas Avenue, and above. If there's a second train behind waiting to get into 18 Avenue, it sits right outside the station on the center track (not on the local track), because remember, if you read this carefully and look at the above track design very carefully, the X diamond switch that connects between the southbound local track and the middle track is located directly south of 18 Avenue, and also, allowing any Coney Island-bound trains behind to continue south without anymore delays. 18 Avenue is the true south-terminal for the at all times, not Church Avenue.

 

 

This is the track layout south of 59 Street-Columbus Circle on the IND Eighth Avenue Line. Southbound and trains enter and leave the station at the same time, but one of them gets held in the tunnel to let the other train proceed first into 7 Avenue-53 Street. This allows southbound and trains to enter and leave the station without delays at all. Likewise heading uptown, an uptown may get held by an uptown ahead of it. So the former train is delayed an additional 2 minutes. Afterwards, the uptown behind can enter the station at the same time with the to allow an across-platform transfer. This is all based on the track layout that I designed. I'll also do a similar one for the Broadway Line north of 57 Street-7 Avenue, as well as Franklin Avenue on the Brooklyn IRT east of that station.

 

 

This is the 142nd Street junction track layout. This is how it should have been built. Also, the 145 Street station is a full 510 feet unit station. And the 135 Street station is a two-track station with two side platforms.

 

Those image links don't work.

[RollOver]

Hold on, bobthepanda. I'm gonna re-post them again, but I'm only going to do this for the last time. I don't want to keep on re-posting them because they eventually fail anyway...

Edited July 12, 2015 by RollOver

[RollOver]

 

 

[Javier]

No Lance, I mean that every line has a equal number of fleet's.

[bobtehpanda]

No Lance, I mean that every line has a equal number of fleet's.

 

For maintenance purposes that's a really bad idea; to keep costs down, you want to keep as few types of cars in a yard as possible, which this plan does the exact opposite of by spreading all the car types around.

[Wallyhorse]

A slightly revised version of what I originally wrote in the unplanned changes thread following last week's debacle that left the with having to terminate at Whitehall, doing work on the Nassau Street Line that would first allow for more operational flexibility on the 6th Avenue and Broadway Lines when needed but also as part of a long-term plan to bring the Broadway-Brooklyn lines to where all stations are eventually 600' on that and the remaining part of the Myrtle Avenue line.  My revised version has this in four phases

 

Phase 1 would be the Nassau Street Line stations in Manhattan being lengthened to 600' plus reconnecting the Nassau Street Line tracks to the Manhattan Bridge going TO Brooklyn ONLY (so to not have trains coming FROM Brooklyn on the Manny B making an at-grade crossover on the Manny B).  The main purpose of this at first would be to allow when needed (whether it be an emergency or a scheduled G.O.) 6th Avenue and Broadway Line trains to be diverted when needed to the Nassau Street line.  This would include both being able to have 6th Avenue line trains operate via the tunnel to Essex Street before changing directions AND when needed being able to send trains on a loop via the tunnel to Manhattan and via the Bridge to Brooklyn (stopping at Jay Street and Court Street in Brooklyn and Broad, Fulton and Chambers Street in Manhattan going northbound ONLY before going back to Brooklyn over the bridge, with such perhaps in the future even being done as a regular loop line if warranted).  The ban on 75-foot cars would be lifted for the Nassau-Centre Street line stations in Manhattan ONLY for this.

 

It's been noted before many of those stations used to handle eight 67' cars, so in all likelihood, albeit a tight fit those stations likely already could handle nine 60' cars with if necessary minimal additional footage added (meaning you could link a five-car set of R160s with a four-car set of R-160s and run such as nine-car trains) as it is. That in turn means you are looking at around a 65-foot extension of most of the stations in the entire Eastern Division to handle 10-car trains.
 

Phase 2 of this would be stations in Brooklyn and along the Myrtle portion in Queens that serve the .  This would allow the to be 10 cars once that is complete.  

 

Phase 3 would be the remaining stations between Myrtle Avenue and Broadway Junction on the Broadway-Brooklyn Line (these would be the stations after the goes to Metropolitan.  This would allow for some 10-car short-turn service between Broadway Junction and Manhattan once complete and also allow for 6th or 8th Avenue trains (that are 60' cars) when needed to use the Broadway-Brooklyn line in a re-route, especially the to Broadway Junction in the event that is needed.

 

Phase 4 would be the rest of the stations on the between Broadway Junction and Jamaica Center so the  can have 10-car trains at all times and also allow in an emergency for the or run to/from Jamaica Center via QB, Manhattan and Broadway-Brooklyn both ways..

This would to start be about having more options if a repeat of what happened last week happens again but long-term would bring the Broadway-Brooklyn line capacity up to the rest of the system, which likely will be needed over time if there is further population expansion along the Broadway-Brooklyn line that could very well happen over time.

[RollOver]

All day long, I've finally decided that the should have been run 9 trains per hour (like midday/evening & service) every Monday through Friday from 6:00 a.m. to 12 midnight. This is because of growing ridership on the Crosstown Line. On Saturday and Sunday, however, the 's headways are still exactly 10 minutes (yes yes 10 minutes) like all the other non-isolated lines, including the and .

 

I'll still keep the 's off-peak headways at 6 trains an hour instead of the current 8-9 trains an hour, however, for obvious reasons. I'll also continue to keep the midday headways on the 2/3/4/5 at 6 trains an hour instead of the current 8-9 trains an hour. I'll also keep the weekend headways on the 2/3 at 6 trains an hour instead of 5 trains an hour, as well as the weekend headways on the 4 at 6 trains an hour instead of 7-8 trains an hour and the weekend headways on the 5 at 6 trains an hour instead of 3-5 trains an hour.

Edited July 15, 2015 by RollOver

[RollOver]

Forgot to add one last thing to my post above this one...I'll also keep midday/evening/weekend and service at exactly 12 trains per hour (5 minute waits between trains), same with the 42nd Street Shuttle, since they are all isolated lines. Growing ridership levels are the second reason why I choose to keep the aforementioned headways. The Franklin Avenue Shuttle's 10 minute headways (everyday) will not be increased, however.

[RollOver]

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_car_assignments_%28RollOverTheFloor%29

 

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_shop_facility_assignments_(RollOverTheFloor)

 

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_rolling_stock_(RollOverTheFloor)

 

These are the above three links to my New York City Subway rolling stock history changes. Hopefully, this is the most clear for everyone in this thread to understand.

 

As you can see, I've merged 2 R46 cars, 1 R68 car, 126 R188 cars, 10 R110A cars, 9 R110B cars, and 6 R179 cars into the R160 order. So that's 1,662 + 2 + 1 + 126 + 10 + 9 + 6 = 1,820 R160B cars.

 

I've also merged 4 R179 cars into the R143 order. And, while R160A-1 cars are not officially assigned to the , 64/376 R160A-1 cars were still equipped with CBTC and can show up on that line at any given time (if necessarily needed of course).

 

Both the Second Avenue Subway phases 1 and 2 are all open, as well as the 2004-2010 service pattern being kept. I know I haven't done the Pre-2010 era yet, but I will sooner or later. The R179s (most of the fleet being 5-car sets and a few of the fleet being 4-car sets) will replace all what's left of the R32s and R42s, currently operating the and / services, respectively. The 4-car sets are very likely to be headed to the east, but as for the 5-car sets, that has yet to be determined (because of what I read at the R179 Discussion Thread). 

 

Like I said before, there are no X diamond switches anywhere at the 14 Street-Union Square area on the IRT Lexington Avenue Line. Plus, the southbound platform is equalized to the northbound platform, so that way, no such gap fillers would have ever existed. And no train derailment would have ever happen, as everywhere in the entire subway system have their signals spaced far apart (as well as timers at the most important places where train operators must apply the brakes and prevent their equipment from flying at downhills/uphills, sharp curves, sharp bends etc) in my world. I've also made some other history changes in terms of derailments and such. Heh.

 

I also made my own rules and prohibition in terms of car assignments (see below):

 

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_rules_and_prohibition_(RollOverTheFloor)

 

It's not fully finish yet, however because I have alot to add to the page sooner or later.

 

The trivia isn't fully finish yet either. So far, I only posted just 2 things there (see below):

 

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_trivia_(RollOverTheFloor)

 

I'm currently working on re-illustrating the Rogers Junction, Flatbush Avenue Station, and the DeKalb Avenue junction.

 

More of my history changes to come sooner or later (track designs of course). Basically, the rest of my history changes are all in that wikia.

 

I also want to thank Mysterious train for leaving enough space on that wiki for me to edit there.

Edited July 25, 2015 by RollOver

[MysteriousBtrain]

Thanks Rollover. Here's also a little something I worked on similar to Rollover's rolling stock change. I started off in 1998 and based it on JoeKorner's 1998 data:

http://mtanyctransitfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Historical_NYC_subway_car_assignments_(mtamaster_edition)

In the 1998 fantasy I have, here is some things to note:

An 8 train using R110A (now called R110) cars only runs between Gun Hill Road and Brooklyn Bridge.

The R20 Redbirds have retired early, and an R39 contract has taken a majority of their original places instead. Also, the entire R27 contract is still active to not create a shortage in the B division, R30s are however, still retired.

The replaces the Rockaway shuttle and uses R110B (now called R111) cars. Runs between Throgs Neck and Rockaway Park.

The operates between 21 Street and Church Avenue, while the runs express in Brooklyn.

The is a rush hour short turn of the operating express in Manhattan between Astoria and Canal Street.

The runs on it's planned extension to Harlem, but to 125 Street and Broadway. Late nights and weekends, no service south of 72 Street.

A handful of R32s and R40s were moved around and we're given to Coney Island to operate on the and respectively.

Edited July 26, 2015 by MysteriousBtrain

[RollOver]

Just noticed a few errors, which I corrected. I meant to say 1,816 R160 cars, not 1,820. I know I didn't wrote the car numbers down for the R160 fleet, but I will sooner or later. During the Montague Tube shutdown, all Jamaica's R46s were strictly for the only, whereas the was entirely R160 (either Alstom or Siemens or a mixed of both). Remember, it makes swapping with the at Whitehall easier (and there's an X diamond switch right before the tracks split from two to three, then enters Whitehall Street, so yeah, trains can also easily originate/terminate on any of the 3 tracks at the station). Plus, Jamaica had some R160Bs, whereas Coney Island had some R160A-2s due to the R/W changing trains at Whitehall. So that means that R160Bs showed up on the E/F, whereas R160A-2s showed up on the N/Q too.

 

I've extended the R32s' retirement date to the end of 2018, to give the 179s some more time for delivery and testing before being able to run in service. New subway cars have to be tested on every single mile of track possible before being able to run in service (?). The 4-car sets will replace the 42s in 2017 and the 5-car sets will replace the 32s in 2018. After 2017, the 42s would all be gone, and, after 2018, the 32s would all be gone too. The 4-car sets will run on the / and at any given time, but where the 5-car sets will end up still has yet to be determined.

 

EDIT:

 

Just now realized that perhaps the current track layout at Whitehall (in reality of course) doesn't seem to matter, as trains only spend at most a minute or two before departing. Sorta the same with Flatbush, where, as soon as a comes to a complete stop at the station and then opens its doors, the entire train is immediately re-set as a train for a minute, then proceeds to leave the station (heading back to Manhattan and the Bronx). At first, I just thought maybe Whitehall should have had an X diamond switch to the north (right after the tracks split from 3 to 2) though. But I guess the current setup is fine.

 

I also realized that R46s have the bullet on their front car faces, as well as "W" on the digital side signs. Nevertheless, the only reason for the / car fleet swap for the Montague Street Tube shutdown was because Coney Island cannot regularly maintain/inspect R46s (except overhaul them) anyway.

Edited July 26, 2015 by RollOver

[CenSin]

Hold on, bobthepanda. I'm gonna re-post them again, but I'm only going to do this for the last time. I don't want to keep on re-posting them because they eventually fail anyway...

I think you should find a more permanent image host. I've tried imgur and tinypic with great results. A lot of the weak image hosts from the earlier days have been weeded out. You could probably find a lot of posts from 6 or 7 years ago that I made with missing images.

[RollOver]

Yeah. I re-posted those three images on my Facebook on the day when bobthepanda responded to me. Afterwards, I copied and pasted them. I think Facebook is a more permanent image host.

[CenSin]

Yeah. I re-posted those three images on my Facebook on the day when bobthepanda responded to me. Afterwards, I copied and pasted them. I think Facebook is a more permanent image host.

The company is stable, but they tend to change policies fairly often. That, and the fact that the host you're using is designed for Facebook's internal use, not as a public image server. Facebook is free to change the entire URL structure at any time; it's own pages will automatically be updated to reflect the change, but it's not obligated (and has no way) to make any effort to update any non-Facebook content. I highly recommend a host that's purpose-built for image hosting.