Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[RollOver]

IMHO Having the scheduled to come one minute or two minutes behind after the in both directions is indeed perfect:

 

Southbound, the is already crowded entering Manhattan from all of the stops it makes in the Bronx, while the only picks up people at just two stops above 135th Street. Anybody traveling within Manhattan can get on the , therefore, allowing the to loose its passengers.

 

Northbound, anybody traveling within Manhattan can get on the , allowing the to have room for anyone heading to the Bronx.

 

Of course, during rush hours (depending on the time of the day and depending on which direction), the Flatbush and New Lots branches have the same amount of crowds, so it really doesn't matter which one comes first for that purpose.

[RollOver]

To add, the same exact thing applies to the and as well, especially when the latter turns at Bowling Green on weekends.

 

Southbound, having Bowling Green-bound trains come first (and the is a minute or two behind afterwards), anybody traveling within Manhattan can hop on the , and everyone else can have enough room on the going to Brooklyn. The fumigation on the at Bowling Green can certainly be a problem though, but since I proposed to have its weekend headway increased from 10-15 minutes to a full 10 minute wait, then I don't think it needs to be fumigated at Bowling Green's southbound platform anymore and just continue straight into the South Ferry inner loop and return uptown on the northbound side at Bowling Green, as long as it's scheduled right. In fact, it would also save more time for the (which is a minute or two behind) to loose all its passengers, as ridership from Jerome to the East Side is more than the ridership from Dyre branch (and lower WPR in general) to the East Side.

 

Northbound, ridership from the East Side to Jerome is more than the ridership from the East Side to lower WPR (and the Dyre branch in general). So the should also always come first (and can also handle anybody traveling within Manhattan), then the comes a minute or two behind.

[Javier]

Maybe you should get out more and experience things. The during rush hours and off peak hours sometimes terminates at Burnside or Bedford Park Blvd. It is on the schedule and has been for the past 5-6 years. In the morning between 9 and 11 am, several trains run exp from 167th to Burnside via exp track. They then deadhead uptown. In the evening anywhere between 5 and 8 or 9 pm the samething happens. The other alternative is two or 3 (4)'s that terminate at Bedford Pk Blvd that run via local then go to the yard.

FYI, it's not illegal here to ask questions, second, I ride the almost every day.

[RollOver]

FYI, it's not illegal here to ask questions, second, I ride the almost every day.

 

So why did you even ask in the first place then? You should have been known this. And unless if I'm mistaken, the aforementioned trains turn at Burnside Av or Bedford Park is for yard access and also to limit probable congestion at Woodlawn (given the track layout south of the aforementioned terminal) depending on the time of the day and depending on the frequency on the line.

Edited April 12, 2015 by RollOver

[CenSin]

FYI, it's not illegal here to ask questions, second, I ride the almost every day.

You are technically correct, but you lose in the court of public opinion. No judge will try anyone and convict them of being stupid, because the shaming by others is punishment enough.

Edited April 12, 2015 by CenSin

[BronxBombers]

IMHO Having the scheduled to come one minute or two minutes behind after the in both directions is indeed perfect:

 

Southbound, the is already crowded entering Manhattan from all of the stops it makes in the Bronx, while the only picks up people at just two stops above 135th Street. Anybody traveling within Manhattan can get on the , therefore, allowing the to loose its passengers.

 

Northbound, anybody traveling within Manhattan can get on the , allowing the to have room for anyone heading to the Bronx.

 

Of course, during rush hours (depending on the time of the day and depending on which direction), the Flatbush and New Lots branches have the same amount of crowds, so it really doesn't matter which one comes first for that purpose.

 

I agree with that. Whenever I ride the during rush hours, I look at the countdown clock and I see a two minutes behind it. Maybe it's scheduled that way so that the can pick up anybody who can't fit on the . The isn't extremely crowded coming into Manhattan, since it eases up a little at Grand Concourse. But once it hits 96th it gets crushed. If the comes first before the it gives people some room (or a seat, which is almost rare) on the .

[2 Train Master]

FYI, it's not illegal here to ask questions, second, I ride the almost every day.

He rides the almost every day but doesn't know how the line operates. That makes perfect sense. That's like saying you ride the everyday but didn't know some trains terminate at Kings Hwy. And I'm pointing out the obvious. The terminating on the northern side other than Woodlawn is on the schedule. So read it!

[S78 via Hylan]

FYI, it's not illegal here to ask questions, second, I ride the almost every day.

I'm not slamming or criticizing you, but this is important for you to hear:

Take the initative and learn to research things yourself. While it isn't illegal to ask questions, researching saves time and shows that you are able to do things on your own rather than always look to others for answers.

The reason I said all of that is because most of the questions you've asked have either been answered or discussed several times.

Edited April 12, 2015 by S78 via Hylan

[RollOver]

Here's how the two bottlenecks should have been built:

 

 

This is how Rogers Junction should have been built. This track layout is inbetween Nostrand Avenue and Franklin Avenue. The dash colors means lower level and the fully color means upper level or at the same level. The black color means not in regular use (except if necessary). Also note that Manhattan-bound trains head below the northbound Eastern Parkway express track (which the uses of course). Then they rise back up and merge with the northbound Eastern Parkway express track right before stopping at Franklin Avenue.

 

For example, let's say southbound and trains arrive and leave Franklin Avenue at the same time. That means only one of them can go first. However, the southbound would instead get held in the tunnel midway between the station and the merging track before President Street, as it waits for the southbound to leave President Street before proceeding into that station. This way, southbound and trains can then enter and leave Franklin Avenue at the same time without neither of them getting held and delayed.

 

 

This is how the Homeball Alley located between 145 Street and 135 Street should have been built. Also, the IND Grand Concourse Line is four-tracks between this section and Bedford Park Boulevard, meaning the is the local and the is the express (except when the isn't running). As I previously said about Bedford Park Boulevard, the local tracks are in the center while the express tracks are on the outer of the aforementioned station. South of the station is a diamond crossover located between the two local tracks, allowing originating/terminating trains to reach the correct track. Then, the all four tracks cross over one another to form the regular express-inner/local-outer configuration.

 

trains don't have to relay north of the station because almost nobody between Bedford Park Boulevard and Fordham Road will board it, as those riders are on their way to Midtown and Grand Street via the express. North of Bedford Park Boulevard is where there are diamond X switches between all four tracks right before the local tracks lead to the Grand Concourse yard. The outer express tracks make a sharp turn east, where a track in the middle coming from the yard and merging with both tracks right before there is a diamond X switch (allowing originating/terminating trains to reach the correct track), then finally stops at Norwood-205 Street, where the station itself ends at bumper blocks at the east end of the station.

 

No longer would there be any delays at the Homeball Alley (like in reality) during middays and evenings now that the extends to/from the Bronx (in my proposal world) so the can stay express throughout Manhattan and the Bronx. Oh, and local customers between Fordham Road and 125th Street can finally learn how to transfer at 125th Street, as the and are scheduled to make an across-platform connection with each other (same goes for the and that are a minute or two behind). Also in my proposal world, north of 145th Street (lower level) is a diamond X switch between the two center express tracks, just in case a FASTRACK program or a weekend/night GO requires trains to turn there as needed.

 

Stay tune for the rest of my proposals sooner or later.

[Union Tpke]

I love the Rogers Avenue Junction idea!

The MTA wants to fix it, but how would they do it now?

[RollOver]

Need to add in some more. Also the northbound Eastern Parkway local track turns and goes below the northbound express one, then rises back up (continuing towards Franklin Avenue). Also note southbound trains (in my proposal) should have been doing 25-30 MPH from 168 Street. About approximately 300 or 600 feet before 145 Street, that's where the timers should have began. The train would then crawl very, very slowly into 145 Street to protect the bumper block at the south end of the station, as well as the diverse switch. So that timer only looses you about just a minute. Then between 145 Street and 125 Street, the would take approximately 2 minutes and a half or 3 minutes (like in reality) to protect the diverse switches. The 3rd timer located south of 135 Street ends approximately in the middle between 135 Street and 125 Street, then the signals turn to green so the train can enter 125 Street at 30 MPH.

 

Northbound, the timers would begin at the south end of 135 Street, so the can go at 10 MPH through the diverse switch at the north end of 135 Street. Afterwards, it gets back to full power, but then slows down again back to 10 PM through the diverse switch right before safely stopping at 145 Street. It's a good thing there are no timers between 145 Street and 168 Street northbound on the , so that should stay put.

Edited April 13, 2015 by RollOver

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This morning I was in a hurry and traffic was a mess so I actually got off of the BxM1 at 86th street caught the express.  I was amazed to see not one but TWO homeless folks on our train. The homeless situation in this city really needs to be addressed.  There are just so many of them either on the subways or in the stations that it's evident that this is becoming a chronic problem.  For all that de Blasio claimed he would do to address the homeless problem, it actually seems worse with him in office than with Bloomberg.

[LTA1992]

TBH, and I'm not saying I approve of this, but I find it less depressing for them to be in the subway than in the streets. I went to D.C. twice and they were everywhere. Luckily it was the summer, but to be on the streets so close to some of the most important buildings in this nation is sad.

 

Also, wrong thread VG8.

Edited April 13, 2015 by LTA1992

[Brooklyn]

How about extending the E train to 179th street via Jamaica Center?

 

A section would have to be built on either 153rd st or Parsons Blvd connecting it to Hillside Av....It would form a cup handle..

 

I think this would give much more scheduling flexibility to the QB express service.

 

Thoughts?

[CenSin]

Here's how the two bottlenecks should have been built:

 

 

This is how Rogers Junction should have been built. This track layout is inbetween Nostrand Avenue and Franklin Avenue. The dash colors means lower level and the fully color means upper level or at the same level. The black color means not in regular use (except if necessary). Also note that Manhattan-bound trains head below the northbound Eastern Parkway express track (which the uses of course). Then they rise back up and merge with the northbound Eastern Parkway express track right before stopping at Franklin Avenue.

 

For example, let's say southbound and trains arrive and leave Franklin Avenue at the same time. That means only one of them can go first. However, the southbound would instead get held in the tunnel midway between the station and the merging track before President Street, as it waits for the southbound to leave President Street before proceeding into that station. This way, southbound and trains can then enter and leave Franklin Avenue at the same time without neither of them getting held and delayed.

There’s actually a much better way to do it that requires only 1 wye in each direction. Think 36 Street where the merges with the and . I posted a diagram a while back, but the image host went the way of the dodo:

I never liked how all the lines were one color even when two different services utilized the tracks.

And it was in response to NX Express’s post which had the same idea:

I think this is a better and more clearly-drawn alternative.

The one huge advantage is that it’s also the next cheapest option to not changing the junction at all! This is how nearly all the junctions with two tracks merging into four are built. See also:

• 59 Street–Colombus Circle
• 47–50 Streets–Rockefeller Center
• 42 Street–Port Authority Bus Terminal
• Briarwood–Van Wyck Boulevard
• 57 Street–7 Avenue (before the local stub tracks were removed)
• Need I name anymore?

You cannot simplify it further than that. It’s one of the most basic layouts. Edited April 14, 2015 by CenSin

[bobtehpanda]

How about extending the E train to 179th street via Jamaica Center?

 

A section would have to be built on either 153rd st or Parsons Blvd connecting it to Hillside Av....It would form a cup handle..

 

I think this would give much more scheduling flexibility to the QB express service.

 

Thoughts?

 

No one would ever need to use a connection like that, and I say that as someone who commuted through Jamaica for at least a decade.

[RollOver]

@CenSin: I know all of that already as I've seen all the track maps in the entire subway system at nycsubway.org, but at least there would no longer by anymore delays in the area from the way I've drawn it, as no trains would be holding up each other from behind them. As for NX Express' idea, southbound and trains can still make a connection (if running early or late) at Franklin, but only one of them has to get held in the station while the other proceeds first. It's better if one of them gets held in the middle of a tunnel (like I proposed it) while the other proceeds into President Street first. This way, no other trains behind can get held. This would also allow better flexibility and capacity on the Brooklyn IRT.

 

I notice the error in NX Express' idea, the northbound express track (which the uses) is straight all the way from Utica to Franklin. It doesn't do any turns. Also, the southbound express and local tracks don't just rise up and continue straight. The southbound express track basically becomes the local one, with a diverse switch to make up its own track. At the same time, the southbound outer track merges with the inner one. Then, both southbound tracks continue east towards Nostrand, Kingston and Utica.

 

I view the current setup of Rogers Junction as the worst bottleneck in the whole system though. This is because now they have no choice to reroute some trains everywhere and there during rush hours and mid evenings as well as early mornings, instead of just simply one place. I can understand the Bronx section, because East 180th Street/Unionport yard can't hold all of those trains. And Flatbush and Utica should have had more tail tracks beyond those stations, and Flatbush should have been built as a four-track terminal with three island platforms too. None of the things in reality would have happen. It's also annoying that delays further downstream on the after passing through Rogers Junction, due to the high number of trains (during rush hours of course) heading towards Utica and Flatbush respectively (given the current layout of the two).

Edited April 14, 2015 by RollOver

[RollOver]

Basically, the goal in my proposal world is to (or would have) eliminated (or prevented) any delays caused by bottlenecks (such as Rogers Junction, Homeball Alley, the merging issue at 34 Street–Herald Square) and build more tail tracks beyond a terminal (such as Crown Heights–Utica Avenue, Brooklyn College–Flatbush Avenue, and Bay Ridge–95 Street).

 

I'll draw out how the other bottlenecks in the system should have been built and I'll post them later. I don't think anything needs to be done about the Myrtle Avenue bottleneck though (given how the area looks as well as the track layout).

Edited April 14, 2015 by RollOver

[Javier]

Rollover, what about the existing yard (or lower level) at City Hall ? I thought that solved some of the merging issues.

[BronxBombers]

Rollover, what about the existing yard (or lower level) at City Hall ? I thought that solved some of the merging issues.

 

No it won't help at all. The lower level is used for storage, he is talking about the merging north of 34th and south of Prince.

Edited April 14, 2015 by BronxBombers

[CenSin]

@CenSin: I know all of that already as I've seen all the track maps in the entire subway system at nycsubway.org, but at least there would no longer by anymore delays in the area from the way I've drawn it, as no trains would be holding up each other from behind them. As for NX Express' idea, southbound and trains can still make a connection (if running early or late) at Franklin, but only one of them has to get held in the station while the other proceeds first. It's better if one of them gets held in the middle of a tunnel (like I proposed it) while the other proceeds into President Street first. This way, no other trains behind can get held. This would also allow better flexibility and capacity on the Brooklyn IRT.

 

I notice the error in NX Express' idea, the northbound express track (which the uses) is straight all the way from Utica to Franklin. It doesn't do any turns. Also, the southbound express and local tracks don't just rise up and continue straight. The southbound express track basically becomes the local one, with a diverse switch to make up its own track. At the same time, the southbound outer track merges with the inner one. Then, both southbound tracks continue east towards Nostrand, Kingston and Utica.

 

I view the current setup of Rogers Junction as the worst bottleneck in the whole system though. This is because now they have no choice to reroute some trains everywhere and there during rush hours and mid evenings as well as early mornings, instead of just simply one place. I can understand the Bronx section, because East 180th Street/Unionport yard can't hold all of those trains. And Flatbush and Utica should have had more tail tracks beyond those stations, and Flatbush should have been built as a four-track terminal with three island platforms too. None of the things in reality would have happen. It's also annoying that delays further downstream on the after passing through Rogers Junction, due to the high number of trains (during rush hours of course) heading towards Utica and Flatbush respectively (given the current layout of the two).

Ah! I see what you’re after now. And it makes sense.

[RollOver]

Looking back to the , there doesn't seem to be enough room to store most trains at Coney Island yard there, so some are stored at City Hall and the Astoria center express track.

Edited April 15, 2015 by RollOver

[Brooklyn]

No one would ever need to use a connection like that, and I say that as someone who commuted through Jamaica for at least a decade.

This is moreso for scheduling and capacity and flexibility purposes on the QB express, that's all.

 

I was thinking the E can make its usual stops (Jamaica Center and Sutphin) then be able to use the 179th Street terminal. Whatever train that goes via Jamaica Center won't be limited to 12 TPH. Also I figure that people at 179th st would like the E too... (rather than the 3 TPH during rush hours).

 

If say there is a disruption on the E train, some F trains can be sent via Jamaica Center and resume service.

 

Again, this is more for flexibility.

 

Thanks for the response.

[bobtehpanda]

This is moreso for scheduling and capacity and flexibility purposes on the QB express, that's all.

 

I was thinking the E can make its usual stops (Jamaica Center and Sutphin) then be able to use the 179th Street terminal. Whatever train that goes via Jamaica Center won't be limited to 12 TPH. Also I figure that people at 179th st would like the E too... (rather than the 3 TPH during rush hours).

 

If say there is a disruption on the E train, some F trains can be sent via Jamaica Center and resume service.

 

Again, this is more for flexibility.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Keep in mind that subway construction is expensive. What you're proposing is also easily accommodated by extending the tail tracks a little bit further and building better crossovers, similar to the '80s era plan to relieve Flatbush-Brooklyn College.

 

There isn't really "replacement" service made for service disruptions (as opposed to service changes), and in any case replacement service would always take away from existing train services.

[RollOver]

Two more things I forgot to add to my four-track Grand Concourse Line proposal, north of Tremont Avenue are diamond X switches between all four tracks; the same exact thing goes for west of 161 Street–Yankee Stadium. There are no other switches anywhere else along the line.