Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[T to Dyre Avenue]

If either the or the were to branch off down Utica, no train would be able to terminate there, so the would probably continue to go to Flatbush.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

It is definitely far from the perfect setup having the and all stopping on the local track at Broadway-Lafayette, however, that to me is a small price to pay to increase service overall to Park Slope (even if it means having to have a handful of (F)'s run on the Crosstown each day) while given riders in Park Slope (at express stations) and Coney Island a one-seat 8th Avenue option they currently don't have (and those on Culver as noted looking for 6th Avenue can switch to ANY of the 6th Avenue lines at Broadway-Lafayette). This also fits the bill of the Coney Island express service on Culver without disrupting the .

I like my suggestion (from the most recent Coney Island express thread) to revive the as a Coney Island-oriented super express better. This service would run via the Sea Beach Line, the 4th Ave express, 6th Ave express and the CPW line. It would cause far less conflict with other subway lines, although the should run local on CPW to avoid overloading the express tracks, which are very busy with the and trains. Or instead of CPW, this could run up to 96th St and 2nd Ave once that line opens by merging with the north of Rockefeller Center (Q trains used to do this when they operated via 6th Ave), then switching over to the at Lexington/63rd St.

Edited November 20, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Wallyhorse]

I like my suggestion (from the most recent Coney Island express thread) to revive the as a Coney Island-oriented super express better. This service would run via the Sea Beach Line, the 4th Ave express, 6th Ave express and the CPW line. It would cause far less conflict with other subway lines, although the should run local on CPW to avoid overloading the express tracks, which are very busy with the and trains. Or instead of CPW, this could run up to 96th St and 2nd Ave once that line opens by merging with the north of Rockefeller Center (Q trains used to do this when they operated via 6th Ave), then switching over to the at Lexington/63rd St.

The reasons I use the are three-fold:

 

1. It gives Park Slope riders (at express stops) a one-seat ride via 8th Avenue (as well as an 8th Avenue line option at Coney Island since in this version the only runs to Church Avenue with a few to Kings Highway as needed except during overnights when it runs as it does now)   This will become more important as the Hudson Yards project and Moynahan Station come on line (especially if the Moynahan Station project eventually includes exits at 9th Avenue).

 

2. It gives riders on the Fulton Line the option of switching to the at Jay Street and avoiding the financial district if looking for midtown.

 

3, It has the to Euclid at all times (<E>'s to Euclid and to Chambers rush hours) with late nights the extended to Lefferts, eliminating the late-night shuttle between Lefferts and Euclid.

[Around the Horn]

The reasons I use the are three-fold:

 

1. It gives Park Slope riders (at express stops) a one-seat ride via 8th Avenue (as well as an 8th Avenue line option at Coney Island since in this version the only runs to Church Avenue with a few to Kings Highway as needed except during overnights when it runs as it does now)   This will become more important as the Hudson Yards project and Moynahan Station come on line (especially if the Moynahan Station project eventually includes exits at 9th Avenue).

 

2. It gives riders on the Fulton Line the option of switching to the at Jay Street and avoiding the financial district if looking for midtown.

 

3, It has the to Euclid at all times (<E>'s to Euclid and to Chambers rush hours) with late nights the extended to Lefferts, eliminating the late-night shuttle between Lefferts and Euclid.

I like your idea,but its just not practical because you need another train on 8th Avenue. Let's face it, extending trains to Euclid is pretty much asking for trouble...

 

And I also like the idea too.I'm torn between these two options however Wallyhorse's doesn't make sense if this is a summer oriented change for beachgoers.His is better for daily service.

 

DISCLAMER:I do not in any way, shape or form,think that the Culver express is necessary.I am just playing the "What if?" game...

[CenSin]

The reasons I use the are three-fold:

 

1. It gives Park Slope riders (at express stops) a one-seat ride via 8th Avenue (as well as an 8th Avenue line option at Coney Island since in this version the only runs to Church Avenue with a few to Kings Highway as needed except during overnights when it runs as it does now)   This will become more important as the Hudson Yards project and Moynahan Station come on line (especially if the Moynahan Station project eventually includes exits at 9th Avenue).

 

2. It gives riders on the Fulton Line the option of switching to the at Jay Street and avoiding the financial district if looking for midtown.

 

3, It has the to Euclid at all times (<E>'s to Euclid and to Chambers rush hours) with late nights the extended to Lefferts, eliminating the late-night shuttle between Lefferts and Euclid.

The only reason that exists is the one-seat ride to 8 Avenue. All the other reasons are simple shuffling of letters/labels. Let me break it down with some simple substitution:

 

If the and stay the way they are…

2. It gives riders on the Fulton Line the option of switching to the at Jay Street and avoiding the financial district if looking for midtown.

But the and take the same amount of time to get to West 4 Street–Washington Square from Jay Street–MetroTech. The time difference is negligible, meaning your proposal only offers the dubious reason of avoiding the financial district while saving no time at all.

 

If the , , and stay the way they are, but we make the full-time…

3, It has the to Euclid at all times with late nights the extended to Lefferts, eliminating the late-night shuttle between Lefferts and Euclid.

 

See what I did there? Neither of the two examples necessitated the changes you proposed while keeping the same benefits. And they also have the added benefit of never fouling the switches at West 4 Street–Washington Square or Jay Street–MetroTech.

Edited November 20, 2015 by CenSin

[Wallyhorse]

I like your idea,but its just not practical because you need another train on 8th Avenue. Let's face it, extending trains to Euclid is pretty much asking for trouble...

 

And I also like the idea too.I'm torn between these two options however Wallyhorse's doesn't make sense if this is a summer oriented change for beachgoers.His is better for daily service.

 

DISCLAMER:I do not in any way, shape or form,think that the Culver express is necessary.I am just playing the "What if?" game...

My plan IS for daily service and was one I have noted many times.

 

And yes, it's far from perfect, but I do it where you add an 8th Avenue option at Coney Island and along the Culver line (at Express Stops with those on the Culver El needing 6th Avenue being able to switch to the or at Broadway-Lafayette.  With the to Euclid at all times, that's where the supplemental comes in since that basically is the except it stays on 8th Avenue after the heads to Culver and terminates at Chambers (during rush hours, helped by any and all trains that originate/terminate at 179 and some additional trains from Jamaica Center that during rush hours terminate to Chambers with all such local while Euclid trains during rush hours are signed as <E> and run on the express track along 8th Avenue from where it enters/leaves north of 42nd coming from/heading to Queens).

 

This increases service on Park Slope and gives those who want express service on the Culver that.  It will become much more important as the Hudson Yards project comes more online.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Why does Hudson Yards have to do with a hypothetical train to/from the Culver line? Why would it have anything to do with a Culver express train service?

[Wallyhorse]

Why does Hudson Yards have to do with a hypothetical train to/from the Culver line? Why would it have anything to do with a Culver express train service?

The fact that for riders from the Culver line in this scenario (and the Fulton Line regardless), it's the closest to the Hudson Yards where it's a one-seat ride without having to ride to 42nd and do a long walk to get the .

Edited November 21, 2015 by Wallyhorse

[S78 via Hylan]

I was thinking all evening about this one:

 

There would be trains stored near City Hall which would be used in the event that Brooklyn-bound service is delayed. This would eliminate the need to send the , , or any other line down 4 Avenue. 

 

If that does not work, an alternative would be to have select rush hour trains run from Whitehall into Brooklyn (if the line is actually restored once the is relocated to 96 St/2nd Ave.) 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I was thinking all evening about this one:

 

There would be trains stored near City Hall which would be used in the event that Brooklyn-bound service is delayed. This would eliminate the need to send the , , or any other line down 4 Avenue.

 

If that does not work, an alternative would be to have select rush hour trains run from Whitehall into Brooklyn (if the line is actually restored once the is relocated to 96 St/2nd Ave.)

The lower-level City Hall storage tracks face the wrong way for Brooklyn-bound service. They'd most likely have to go north to Canal Street to relay before turning south to head to Brooklyn. I'm not sure if those extra tracks at Canal can even be used to turn trains on a regular basis. There really isn't another place on the Broadway line to store trains to protect the service in Brooklyn.

 

I always thought the point of having a supplemental service on a line was to provide a choice of destinations on that line. The wouldn't really do that. Wouldn't it just duplicate the ? If there's a problem on the Broadway line in Manhattan, the and would both be affected by it. The , at least, goes to a different part of Lower Manhattan, even if it doesn't go to Midtown.

Edited December 2, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[bobtehpanda]

The lower-level City Hall storage tracks face the wrong way for Brooklyn-bound service. They'd most likely have to go north to Canal Street to relay before turning south to head to Brooklyn. I'm not sure if those extra tracks at Canal can even be used to turn trains on a regular basis. There really isn't another place on the Broadway line to store trains to protect the service in Brooklyn.

 

I always thought the point of having a supplemental service on a line was to provide a choice of destinations on that line. The wouldn't really do that. Wouldn't it just duplicate the ? If there's a problem on the Broadway line in Manhattan, the and would both be affected by it. The , at least, goes to a different part of Lower Manhattan, even if it doesn't go to Midtown.

 

The exists to make sure that Astoria has a local. Local demand is very high in Queens, but not as high in Brooklyn, which is why they terminate s at Whitehall.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The exists to make sure that Astoria has a local. Local demand is very high in Queens, but not as high in Brooklyn, which is why they terminate s at Whitehall.

I know. My point about the is that it shares its entire route in Manhattan with the , so extending it to Brooklyn to cover for the may not work so well because the would very likely be subject to the same delays the would experience in the event of a service problem.

[Wallyhorse]

I know. My point about the is that it shares its entire route in Manhattan with the , so extending it to Brooklyn to cover for the may not work so well because the would very likely be subject to the same delays the would experience in the event of a service problem.

Right.  That is why I would do it with what would become a full-time train that would actually be a 24/7 line running from 95th Street to Broadway Junction Monday-Friday from 5:30 AM-11:00 PM and late nights (11:00 PM-5:30 AM weeknights) and 11:00 PM Friday-5:30 AM Monday between Metropolitan Avenue and 95th Street.  Such a full-time would eliminate (as noted before) both the late-night and the truncated trains late nights and weekends.  

Edited December 3, 2015 by Wallyhorse

[Wallyhorse]

Have no idea how that M in the last post became so big (or this one before I deleted it).

Edited December 4, 2015 by Wallyhorse

[darrianQ60]

Just an idea extend the 5 via flatbush ave train down flatbush ave to kings plaza and 2 via nostrand ave train to sheepshep bay and also 4 train to kings plaza via utica ave

[trainfanrod]

You about to make the 5 be a full time line

[darrianQ60]

Yea what you think

[trainfanrod]

Where would the 5 go outside im assuming that kimgs plaza will be an outside terminal similar to CI

[Lance]

Right.  That is why I would do it with what would become a full-time train that would actually be a 24/7 line running from 95th Street to Broadway Junction Monday-Friday from 5:30 AM-11:00 PM and late nights (11:00 PM-5:30 AM weeknights) and 11:00 PM Friday-5:30 AM Monday between Metropolitan Avenue and 95th Street.  Such a full-time would eliminate (as noted before) both the late-night and the truncated trains late nights and weekends.

 

Why do you hate simple services? Why does every one of your ideas have several terminals depending on (time of) day? Also, what happened to the Jamaica skip-stop?

[CenSin]

With that kind of complexity, I wonder why he even bothers with letters. Just call something the Astoria–Coney Island express or something.

Edited December 8, 2015 by CenSin

[Wallyhorse]

Why do you hate simple services? Why does every one of your ideas have several terminals depending on (time of) day? Also, what happened to the Jamaica skip-stop?

It's not that I hate it.

 

In this case, the original idea was to have this terminate at Essex (except late nights and weekends when I would have extended it to Metropolitan to eliminate the shuttle), but that really isn't feasible, so that's why I have it go to Broadway Junction during the week. It was specifically due to the track layout at Essex in this case why the idea of a full-time to 95th Street (including late nights when it would replace the shuttle) had to be done with a terminal at Broadway Junction during the week unless Metropolitan can handle two full-time lines (the and in this scenario).

 

 

[Fresh Pond]

It's not that I hate it.

 

In this case, the original idea was to have this terminate at Essex (except late nights and weekends when I would have extended it to Metropolitan to eliminate the shuttle), but that really isn't feasible, so that's why I have it go to Broadway Junction during the week. It was specifically due to the track layout at Essex in this case why the idea of a full-time to 95th Street (including late nights when it would replace the shuttle) had to be done with a terminal at Broadway Junction during the week unless Metropolitan can handle two full-time lines (the and in this scenario).

 

 

You didn't even answer the question, you merely re-stated your proposal.

 

You always do that

[Wallyhorse]

Sorry:

I do the different time of day stuff sometimes where I think such is warranted.  The idea is a return to the days where people are rewarded for paying attention and actually knowing the system (I learned that lesson the hard way years ago).  

As for the Jamaica Skip-Stop, what I would likely do there is to have what would be (J1) and (J2) trains.  (J1) would stop at current skip-stop stations while (J2) trains would stop at current stations.  As such would only run during rush hours, that would also make it clear riders are on a rush-hour line since all other times, such would be simply .  

[Javier]

Didn't some trains drop out at City Hall during rush hour or was that the ?

[CenSin]

Sorry:

 

I do the different time of day stuff sometimes where I think such is warranted.  The idea is a return to the days where people are rewarded for paying attention and actually knowing the system (I learned that lesson the hard way years ago).

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want the same hassle when traveling abroad. When you need to make a quick decision, do you have all day to memorize an entire transportation system—or look into its track map? No normal person puts up with that.

 

I know the system liek the back of my hand and even I find it bothersome to have to consider all the possible options.