Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[LTA1992]

The only change to 8th Ave I'd advocate for is renaming the Lefferts to . Hard to believe that people still, after all there years, continue to take the wrong train.

Edited July 6, 2013 by LTA1992

[Q90]

The only change to 8th Ave I'd advocate for is renaming the Lefferts to . Hard to believe that people still, after all there years, continue to take the wrong train.

 

 

The only change to 8th Ave I'd advocate for is renaming the Lefferts to . Hard to believe that people still, after all there years, continue to take the wrong train.

 

You know, That's a great idea. I'll shelve my proposal for   to Lefferts Boulevard and make sure this is an express. Thanks!

[8thAveExpress]

Here are some changes I think should be made to the B train and the IND 8th Avenue line. First off, the B should have a color change to blue and be rerouted. It would maintain it's existing route between Norwood-205th street and West 4 Street-Washington Square however it would run express between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and serve the extension to Norwood-205 Street at all times instead of rush hours (well actually the current rush hour B terminates at Bedford Park Boulevard, one station earlier). However after West 4 Street, it would switch to the IND 8th Avenue line as an express towards Euclid Avenue. Then it continues along the A branch to Rockaway Park at all times, replacing the Rockaway Shuttle line. Also all A trains will be routed towards Far Rockaway and the C would be extended to Lefferts Boulevard to compensate for the A train consolidation to Far Rockaway. An additional change as well would be switching the D to the local tracks between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and terminating at 145 Street at all times to compensate for the B switching to the express tracks.

Go home Q90, you're drunk.

[BrooklynIRT]

I know that and that makes more sense now but how do you know that the  will be express again. I never saw that anywhere. But I want that to happen. It bloody pissed me off when the MTA made the  a local during the 2010 cuts.

 

-it does not make sense for the to run local down Broadway, the alone or alone is perfectly fine when it comes to handling the crowds.

 

-the current setup causes lots of problems since the has to get from local to express to get on the Manhattan Bridge, among other things. that particular switch delays the and a lot. I think problems are also caused at the Midtown end with too many trains making switches by Herald SQ or Times SQ or W 49 or W 57 or wherever all the switching occurs. there have been many complaints about merging delays since the was cut and the was made a 24/7 Broadway Local..

[RTOMan]

Here are some changes I think should be made to the B train and the IND 8th Avenue line. First off, the B should have a color change to blue and be rerouted. It would maintain it's existing route between Norwood-205th street and West 4 Street-Washington Square however it would run express between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and serve the extension to Norwood-205 Street at all times instead of rush hours (well actually the current rush hour B terminates at Bedford Park Boulevard, one station earlier). However after West 4 Street, it would switch to the IND 8th Avenue line as an express towards Euclid Avenue. Then it continues along the A branch to Rockaway Park at all times, replacing the Rockaway Shuttle line. Also all A trains will be routed towards Far Rockaway and the C would be extended to Lefferts Boulevard to compensate for the A train consolidation to Far Rockaway. An additional change as well would be switching the D to the local tracks between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and terminating at 145 Street at all times to compensate for the B switching to the express tracks.

 

Let me know how you change the work program timetables  for this.. Oh and let me know how the Crew Changes will work then get back to me thanks. 

Edited July 6, 2013 by RTOMan

[Dan05979]

He just got rid of the senior rockaway park shuttle jobs lol

[RTOMan]

He just got rid of the senior rockaway park shuttle jobs lol

 

Makes you Glad folks like that aren't in charge of Operations Planning.

[Roadcruiser1]

Hey. Foamers do what foamers do. Come up with sh*t that doesn't work and expects it to work. It's lunacy.

[peacemak3r]

Hey. Foamers do what foamers do. Come up with sh*t that doesn't work and expects it to work. It's lunacy.

 

Don't flatter yourself, you had some wild ideas in the past.

 

But for one of those rare occasions, I'll agree here.

[mtattrain]

Hey. Foamers do what foamers do. Come up with sh*t that doesn't work and expects it to work. It's lunacy.

 

Well there are people that try to oppress the foamers lol...

[j express]

Here are some changes I think should be made to the B train and the IND 8th Avenue line. First off, the B should have a color change to blue and be rerouted. It would maintain it's existing route between Norwood-205th street and West 4 Street-Washington Square however it would run express between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and serve the extension to Norwood-205 Street at all times instead of rush hours (well actually the current rush hour B terminates at Bedford Park Boulevard, one station earlier). However after West 4 Street, it would switch to the IND 8th Avenue line as an express towards Euclid Avenue. Then it continues along the A branch to Rockaway Park at all times, replacing the Rockaway Shuttle line. Also all A trains will be routed towards Far Rockaway and the C would be extended to Lefferts Boulevard to compensate for the A train consolidation to Far Rockaway. An additional change as well would be switching the D to the local tracks between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and terminating at 145 Street at all times to compensate for the B switching to the express tracks.

You really need to study the subway system more to understand it about how ridership is on the  and 8 av lines. There is reason on why the current pattern exists.

[Snowblock]

It's threads like this that play a part in the attitude I get towards foamers.

 

All the OP really wants is to make sure that the only goes to ONE place, and also wants to eliminate the shuttle and can't seem to comprehend that the Rockaways DOES NOT need two full services running down there just so that each and every station can be served by a full length line that has an individual letter. Meanwhile messing up service all over the city just to get his goal accomplished. This is fantasy world thinking.

Also the reason that the and both run express on CPW on weekends is because there is MUCH more demand for service to upper Manhattan and the Bronx than there is for CPW service. The would get way too overcrowded if it ran local on CPW, and the can't run local without causing delays unless it also ran local on 8th Ave, which it can't do with the and running there without causing MORE delays. And the has very light ridership on the weekends, so that's the best solution for carrying CPW riders.

 

Oh, and 205 St can barely turn ONE service, let alone having both the and run there!

[Snowblock]

I know that and that makes more sense now but how do you know that the  will be express again. I never saw that anywhere. But I want that to happen. It bloody pissed me off when the MTA made the  a local during the 2010 cuts.

 

Wait a minute, so you're willing to screw up subway service all over the city just to get your crazy to Rock Park idea implemented, but you can't even handle the making 4 more stops without throwing a hissy fit????

[realizm]

And people wonder why I'm just lurking through this thread that's going on like an Eddie Murphy back in the day comedy stint (and loling hard)

 

 

..... oops too late I just posted.

 

 

Wait a minute, so you're willing to screw up subway service all over the city just to get your crazy to Rock Park idea implemented, but you can't even handle the making 4 more stops without throwing a hissy fit????

Yep. That was what I was reading in the thread starter. That was the whole reason evvvverybody's wilding out over the proposal in the OP. No BMT Brighton express service. That's akin to BMT South BK Div operations suicide.

 

Still loling at the proposal......

Edited July 6, 2013 by realizm

[Vistausss]

IF the OP wants to foam so badly about the , then I wonder why he doesn't come up with solutions that don't screw up service. For example:

 

-Rename the Lefferts to and extend the line past Lefferts to, for example, Jamaica LIRR. That way it serves more riders in the area and makes it more of a line than a short branch. Also, Jamaica LIRR is not that far away from Lefferts so it's not impossible nor very expensive and it makes up for a nice transfer to LIRR and AirTrain.

 

-Extend the a bit further up north to Far Rock LIRR Terminal. That way it serves a bit more riders in the area and it makes for a nice transfer to the LIRR. LIRR will also benefit from that transfer since there might be some people interested in transferring to the LIRR.

 

-If we're really going the foam way, then why not extend the Rockaway line into LIC? Maybe LIRR wouldn't like it but it at least doesn't screw up subway service other than the route being slightly longer.

 

And while we're at the , the only idea for the I can see working (although I much prefer a extension): extend it to Co-Op City.

[realizm]

My apologies. The comment about New Yorkers not liking change was meant to be light-hearted, and I'm concluding it was a bad way to introduce this proposal. Generally, people everywhere are resistant to change. I certainly have no intentions of "mocking" the New York subway -- I'm just a transit geek having some fun with a subway system that is indeed fascinating and amazing.

 

I would also be quite sceptical about an outsider making a proposal for my city. So to be clear, I'm merely sharing the results of my "exercise" to make a proposal for the New York subway. It is just for fun.

 

I really appreciate the time everyone has taken to post their comments. Thank you!

 

Wished I saw this sooner. No need to apologize man, and welcome to NYCTF. Keep posting, looking forward to your future contributions in coming discussions.

[Grand Concourse]

Well the Far Rock station was rehabbed, so I don't think they are going to move the station further up. Just have to walk.

 

Snowblock, right on, nothing more to add.

[Roadcruiser1]

Or maybe even something more logical like a reactivation of the Rockaway Beach Branch to have a second service run to the Rockaways, but there was not thought.

[bobtehpanda]

IF the OP wants to foam so badly about the , then I wonder why he doesn't come up with solutions that don't screw up service. For example:

 

-Rename the Lefferts to and extend the line past Lefferts to, for example, Jamaica LIRR. That way it serves more riders in the area and makes it more of a line than a short branch. Also, Jamaica LIRR is not that far away from Lefferts so it's not impossible nor very expensive and it makes up for a nice transfer to LIRR and AirTrain.

 

-Extend the a bit further up north to Far Rock LIRR Terminal. That way it serves a bit more riders in the area and it makes for a nice transfer to the LIRR. LIRR will also benefit from that transfer since there might be some people interested in transferring to the LIRR.

 

-If we're really going the foam way, then why not extend the Rockaway line into LIC? Maybe LIRR wouldn't like it but it at least doesn't screw up subway service other than the route being slightly longer.

 

And while we're at the , the only idea for the I can see working (although I much prefer a extension): extend it to Co-Op City.

 

An alternative at Sutphin/Archer would be great - reduces the amount of transfers to get to the South Brooklyn services and Downtown Brooklyn (although really, they should build another transfer from the or to Atlantic because a four-train transfer is ridiculous, especially during the night and at weekends.)

 

The other ideas... seem a bit far fetched. Also, if Rockaway does get reactivated, it should be a subway line.

[Kamen Rider]

Here's the problems with your plan, Q90, in list form.

 

1. The B would not be recolored, as your idea has it still uses 6th as it's trunk. It would only be blue if running on 8th between W4th and 59th.

 

2. Service given vs service needed. The Rockaway line stations are ranked as follows

 

Shuttle/Rockaway Park branch

 

Rockaway Park/Beach 116th - 413 out of 421

 

Beach 105th - 417 out of 421

 

Beach 98th - 415 out of 421

 

Beach 90th - 411 out of 421

 

 

A/Far Rockaway branch

 

Beach 67th - 399 out of 421

 

Beach 60th - 398 out of 421

 

Beach 44th - 416 out of 421

 

Beach 36th - 414 out of 421

 

Beach 25th - 408 out of 421

 

Far Rockaway/Mott Ave - 325 out of 421 (transfers from Nassua commuters help here)

 

 

both

 

Broad Channel - 418 out of 421 (most traffic is transfering between the shuttle and the A)

 

Howard Beach/JFK - 347 out of 421

 

Aqueduct/North Conduit Ave- 372 out of 421

 

Aqueduct Racetrack - 420 out of 421 (closed for renovations)

 

 

These numbers show not only just how low useage of the line is, but that it doesn't really matter where the service goes. There are A branch stations with lower useage than those on the shuttle. That doesn't justify ramrodding three lines onto the Fulton. Park Place on the Franklin Shuttle gets more passengers than some of these stations, it's at 392.

 

Current B stations

 

Brighton Beach - 124 out of 421

 

Sheepshead Bay- 114 out of 421

 

Kings Highway- 77 out of 421

 

Newkirk Plaza- 158 out of 421

 

Church Ave- 88 out of 421

 

Prospect Park- 165 out of 421

 

7th ave- 171 out of 421

 

Atlantic Ave- 25 out of 421

 

Dekalb ave- 85th out of 421

 

Grand Street- 47 out of 421

 

Broadway-Laffeyette 24 out of 421

 

These numbers show you are taking service away from much higher trafficed stations (not counting the transfers from Q only stations bound for B stations further up the line) to send to stations that just don't need it.

 

3. Operational capacity; Switching the B to 8th at West 4th will incress delays due to switching. You need to get the B between the 6th ave express tracks (only way to get to/from CPW) on and off the local tracks (only way to use the junction south of W4th). This will lead to more delay on the F and M. You are also stacking 4 lines onto the lower section of the 8th Ave. B, C and E on the local tracks, with the B and C using merging with the A at Canal Street. Incudling the B will also delay the C and E.

[Q90]

IF the OP wants to foam so badly about the , then I wonder why he doesn't come up with solutions that don't screw up service. For example:

 

-Rename the Lefferts to and extend the line past Lefferts to, for example, Jamaica LIRR. That way it serves more riders in the area and makes it more of a line than a short branch. Also, Jamaica LIRR is not that far away from Lefferts so it's not impossible nor very expensive and it makes up for a nice transfer to LIRR and AirTrain.

 

-Extend the a bit further up north to Far Rock LIRR Terminal. That way it serves a bit more riders in the area and it makes for a nice transfer to the LIRR. LIRR will also benefit from that transfer since there might be some people interested in transferring to the LIRR.

 

-If we're really going the foam way, then why not extend the Rockaway line into LIC? Maybe LIRR wouldn't like it but it at least doesn't screw up subway service other than the route being slightly longer.

 

And while we're at the , the only idea for the I can see working (although I much prefer a extension): extend it to Co-Op City.

IF the OP wants to foam so badly about the , then I wonder why he doesn't come up with solutions that don't screw up service. For example:

 

-Rename the Lefferts to and extend the line past Lefferts to, for example, Jamaica LIRR. That way it serves more riders in the area and makes it more of a line than a short branch. Also, Jamaica LIRR is not that far away from Lefferts so it's not impossible nor very expensive and it makes up for a nice transfer to LIRR and AirTrain.

 

-Extend the a bit further up north to Far Rock LIRR Terminal. That way it serves a bit more riders in the area and it makes for a nice transfer to the LIRR. LIRR will also benefit from that transfer since there might be some people interested in transferring to the LIRR.

 

-If we're really going the foam way, then why not extend the Rockaway line into LIC? Maybe LIRR wouldn't like it but it at least doesn't screw up subway service other than the route being slightly longer.

 

And while we're at the , the only idea for the I can see working (although I much prefer a extension): extend it to Co-Op City.

I have actually decided about a instead of a extension. You guys are right. A to Lefferts is a flop and not needed and I realized my idea has WAAAAY more disadvantages than advantages so I now regret it.

[Snowblock]

 

 

And while we're at the , the only idea for the I can see working (although I much prefer a extension): extend it to Co-Op City.

 

The only fantasy plan I have EVER really reasonably expected to see actually happen is extending the one stop to Burke Ave-White Plains Rd, and building an in-system transfer to the .That tunnel is already built halfway there with the relay tracks, and Burke could be a real terminal, no more relays, no more crew changes at Bedford Park. Plus that extension from 205 to Burke provides a connection between the two neighborhoods which are otherwise separated by the Bronx River. So much practicality there......

 

Extending it to Co-Op City is overkill. That would be like trying to build another SAS.

[Vistausss]

@bobthehpanda: It wasn't meant as a serious plan, I just threw out a few ideas that are actually feasible without screwing up current service patterns.

 

@Snowblock: Yeah, it was merely an idea that floated around here and there and could work. But I do prefer the to Co-Op though since that's much closer.

 

But I like the idea of sending it up to Burke Ave and have a transfer to the .

Well the Far Rock station was rehabbed, so I don't think they are going to move the station further up. Just have to walk.

 

Snowblock, right on, nothing more to add.

 

Yeah, it wasn't meant as a serious plan, just an idea. I just threw out some ideas that actually would be feasible for the without screwing up current service patterns.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Vistausss

[Dan05979]

I want to Ronkonkoma....there I said it.

[Guest Lance]

Here are some changes I think should be made to the B train and the IND 8th Avenue line. First off, the B should have a color change to blue and be rerouted. It would maintain it's existing route between Norwood-205th street and West 4 Street-Washington Square however it would run express between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and serve the extension to Norwood-205 Street at all times instead of rush hours (well actually the current rush hour B terminates at Bedford Park Boulevard, one station earlier). However after West 4 Street, it would switch to the IND 8th Avenue line as an express towards Euclid Avenue. Then it continues along the A branch to Rockaway Park at all times, replacing the Rockaway Shuttle line. Also all A trains will be routed towards Far Rockaway and the C would be extended to Lefferts Boulevard to compensate for the A train consolidation to Far Rockaway. An additional change as well would be switching the D to the local tracks between 145 Street and 59 Street-Columbus Circle and terminating at 145 Street at all times to compensate for the B switching to the express tracks.

Let me just write this all out so I'm not confused:

 

A - full service to Far Rockaway

B - 205 St to Rockaway Park via 6 Av Exp, Fulton St Exp

C - extended to Lefferts

D - truncated to 145 St via Central Park West Lcl

 

Is that right? If so, why are you advocating such a change in the IND? First off, if I'm repeating something already said, I apologize. I didn't read the whole thread. Starting off with the B to Rock Pk, that area does not need that much service. The only time you could justify an increase in service for Rockaway Park is during the summer months where more riders are heading to the beach. Other than that, you'd be running many empty trains. Also, what would serve the Brighton line? Riders will not appreciate having the Q local as the only option on the line. And even if you bring back the Q-diamond, there will still be no 6th Avenue service on Brighton, which was the reason the B and D switched Brooklyn lines in 2004.

 

Regarding the C to Lefferts/all As to Far Rock, again, the area does not need that much service. Also, sending the C to Lefferts Blvd would just make riders transfer to the A at Rockaway Blvd, which will lead to more empty trains west of the station.

 

On the subject of having the B and D switch roles north of Columbus Circle, just, why? It serves no purpose other than railfan wank. What I mean by that is that it just looks like you want to see the D local and the B express for little reason. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me, but that's how I see it.