Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Metro CSW]

to JFK

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ptab=2&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004de6124602892458a4

Terminal 3 and 4 are not connected and there is no terminal 6..... just pointing that out.

[mtattrain]

train to Jamaica possible extension (with possible express service):

 

Hanover Sq. (LCL/EXP)

 

Court Sq. (transfer ) (LCL)

 

--- Switches to LIRR Atlantic tracks ---

 

Atlantic Ave./Barclays (transfer ) - existing (LCL/EXP)

 

Washington Ave. - in fill (LCL)

 

Nostrand Ave. - existing (LCL)

 

Utica Ave. - in fill (LCL)

 

Atlantic Ave./ENY (transfer - existing (LCL/EXP)

 

Van Siclen Ave. - in fill (LCL)

 

Crescent St. - in fill (LCL)

 

Woodhaven Blvd. - existing but closed (LCL/EXP?)

 

Lefferts Blvd. - in fill (LCL)

 

Jamaica (center island platform) - existing (LCL/EXP)

 

 

I have lots of shit on Google Earth... I wish there was a way to upload Google Earth stuff onto google maps....

Edited June 5, 2013 by mtattrain

[BreeddekalbL]

Terminal 3 and 4 are not connected and there is no terminal 6..... just pointing that out.

 

that reminds me, jfk terminal 3 closed recently   and your right about terminal 6 my bad

[Metro CSW]

that reminds me, jfk terminal 3 closed recently   and your right about terminal 6 my bad

Yup, Delta flights are out of T4 and T6 is gonna be rebuilt, but as Terminal 5i as a expansion of JetBlue Airways, Terminal 5. Reopening plans for 2017 or so.... Just a side note.

[Threxx]

I decided I'd copy/paste the description of this one rather than just have you guys click... 

 

"In 1939, the City of New York purchased a share of the former Bay Ridge Branch of the Long Island Railroad. Between 1940 and 1945, the city worked to convert the section purchased between Fresh Pond Road and the 60th Street Yard to subway standards and connected it to the unbuild Winfield Spur. In 1947, service began between Roosevelt Avenue and East New York under the designation "X". Until 1988, the "X" used specially branded consists of R10's, and later R42's. The line was assigned R68's in 1988, where they have remained since. These assigned cars feature special strip-map cards of the line. Plans for CBTC conversion are being made."

 

Here's the (X) line: 

http://goo.gl/maps/QEdlW

[drekroid]

Hello all. I'm a transit enthusiast living in Ottawa, Canada, and I recently put together a proposal for the New York subway (just for fun). It does not propose new construction or equipment purchases, rather it proposes modification to the services provided using existing infrastructure and less equipment.

 

This proposal might not be well received due to the amount of changes proposed (I've heard New Yorkers don't like change), however I would be interested in some feedback from individuals who can appreciate its content (compliments and criticisms are both welcome) .

 

The full 66-page proposal can be viewed here: http://www.peoplefood.org/NYC/

 

The proposed network map can be viewed here: NYC_Subway_Optimiztion_Map.png

 

(or click the map below to enlarge)

 

 

 

 

 

[itmaybeokay]

Regardless of whether new yorkers don't like changes:

 

1) You can't turn G trains at Queens Plaza. 

2) Speaking of Queens plaza, no connection to Queens Blvd Express at all? 

3) Speaking of Queens Blvd, no connection to Broadway Line? And your local trains, past roosevelt, are the expresses? Do you have any idea how crowded they will be at the local stations like 46 st and steinway? Is your intent for people to transfer from the local trains over to the express trains at roosevelt? because A) They won't. B) The trains that go express there will be too crowded. 

 

You do realize that Queens Blvd is the second-busiest trunk in the system?

Also you took away most of the J line's direct connection to Manhattan?

These really don't seem like viable ideas, no offense. I'm curious if the details of your proposal address them. 

 

Also, your proposal seeks to reduce "confusing service patterns" yet your map is spaghetti. 

Maybe I'm being brutal, it's not my resistance to change, I assure you, it's my recognition of service changes that solve some problems by causing new ones. 

 

(Around here we call that "wallyhorseing")

((sorry wallyhorse, but, you know, kinda true))

[peacemak3r]

First thing, nice work on the map.

 

Second, damn that looks to be longer than the original.

 

And lastly, itmaybeokay said most of the other things I was going to point out as well.

[B35 via Church]

We also don't like know-it-all out of towners that have to use shaming tactics to get people to consider their proposals they won't be directly affected by.

[BreeddekalbL]

this is really stupid seriously... sending the B to Canarsie... you gotta be kidding me... lots of these changes would not go over well is right as you say...

Edited July 1, 2013 by BreeddekalbL

[Via Garibaldi 8]

These proposals are just down right ridiculous and make no sense.  It's almost like this guy is making a mockery out of our subway system. 

[m7zanr160s]

+1 For the effort. Not in agreement with the changes, but man you went in.

Edited July 1, 2013 by m7zanr160s

[itmaybeokay]

+1 For the effort. Not in agreement with the changes, but man you went in.

 

I will second that - perhaps the changes aren't practical, but you set out to make every corridor less than 24 tph, and while I don't think that's a good idea real-world, in terms of a fantasy map achieving it's goals, good job. 

 

+1 contingent upon none of this actually happening 

[Vistausss]

On a sidenote: I do wonder why no fantasy map maker ever extends the (or the ) past Rockaway Park. There's a long stretch beyond Rockaway Park, all the way down to Breezy Point. Why does no one, not even the IND Second System, ever draw that extension?

Edited July 1, 2013 by Vistausss

[realizm]

On a sidenote: I do wonder why no fantasy map maker ever extends the (or the ) past Rockaway Park. There's a long stretch beyond Rockaway Park, all the way down to a point where you can almost walk through the water to Brooklyn College. Is there no one living down there or what?

 

Well admittedly I am not that knowledged on geology, been a while since I ever took a Earth Science course, but I'll take a crack at this: If I'm correct the normal water table level in that area stands at 2 feet approximately and is known to shoot up to as high as 17 feet as with during past violent hurricanes of the early 20th century. As you remember now in 2012 the water table shot up 11.7 feet or more during the touchdown of Hurricane Sandy devastating the area and the rail infrastructure into something akin to a warzone. That was what popped in my mind when you posed the question. So imagine what seasonal damage an extension like this could pose unless say levees were built to protect your proposed extension. Just throwing out some ideas for you there to make it work.

 

If the line was extended the other way past Mott St on the north side of Hammel's Wye in the Rockaways then the proposed line will have to cross the city border into Long Island. But hey dream on right? It's all good. That's just my interpretation, I'm sure there is more to this in terms of population densities of the areas such a line would serve which I guess someone else can answer for you.

Edited July 1, 2013 by realizm

[Vistausss]

Yeah, the seasonal things would make it difficult. But it wouldn't be impossible. For starters, it's elevated like the rest of the line but it wouldn't look too ugly since it passes mostly through the meadowlands anyway until it hits Rockaway Point.

 

But still: it would be possible in some way. It's for now a fantasy extension that I propose so the needed money to protect the el against the water table isn't really an issue here.

 

I'd propose stops at (going down past Rockaway Park):

 

-Belle Harbor-Beach 132st

-Neponsit Ave

(-Jacob Riis Park if there's a need for a subway station there)

-Roxbury Barret Road

-Rockaway Point-Oceanside Drive

-Breezy Point-Beach 221st St

 

But if it were real, why not at least extend it to Neponsit Ave? That's not very far from Rockaway Park.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Vistausss

[realizm]

Yeah it isn't impossible, constructed steel reinforced concrete levees will stop tide surges from violent storms in it's tracks. In fact as mentioned before in other threads in the past, Bloomberg enacted a study after Hurricane Irene hit in 2011 to consider construction of levees to counteract the wild surges of the water table during prime time. 

 

LOL on the second paragraph. Lets assume then US congress just approved $9,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,

999,999,999,999,999,999,999 dollars in change for a new funding package for mass transit improvements---- plus, a reversal of the fare hike and make more proposals to create a hell of a monster of a kick ass fantasy map for teh lutz. 

Edited July 1, 2013 by realizm

[Kamen Rider]

 

This proposal might not be well received due to the amount of changes proposed (I've heard New Yorkers don't like change), however I would be interested in some feedback from individuals who can appreciate its content (compliments and criticisms are both welcome) .

 

 

No, it's not going to be well recived becuase you've in effect RUINED the subway!

 

Do you have any idea about the needs and wants of the people who actually use the system day-in and day-out?

 

Have you done exhuastive stuides on when and where trains need to run.

 

You've made crowding WORSE becuase you haven't taken in to consideration the human factor.

 

Example, I live along the Myrtle ave line. When the MTA was considering it's 2010 cuts, they merged the M with the V becuase they found that the majority of M passengers wanted Midtown. Not the majoirty of passengers from Canarsie. They have also spent millions of dollars and years of hard work automating the Canarise line, so keep your mitts off it, bub.

 

 

you posted the track maps, but did you bother to read them? Half of what your suggesting is physicly impossible, the system just can't do it. You want to avoid conngestion, so you require EVERY train on the second most crowded section of the subway to use the interlocking at Roosevelt. For your next trick, are you gonna try to put out a fire with Gasoline?

 

Want to know a secrite, The reason the E is so crowded is becuase of the enormus amount of people who want to use it, not becuase of it's headways.

 

it's also the track layout, the one thing you don't want to change. Jamaica Center was never inteded as a long term terminal, so the interlocking is too far from the station to be effective, which is what cuts the E's abilty to run, that's why the Hillside Es exist to. incresse E service, but to not clog up an underbuilt terminal. It's the same with the Nostrand Ave Branch of the Brooklyn IRT. Flatbush ave is a POS. To compensate, some 2s and 5s are sent to Utica and/or New Lots. They are also sent there because they are laid up for the night at Livonia yard for rush hour service the next day.

 

Broadway junction was not ment to be a terminal so I don't know what you're doing there. What the heck was wrong with Euclid. you know, the one meant to be used as such...

[Q10 Airport]

 

Hello all. I'm a transit enthusiast living in Ottawa, Canada, and I recently put together a proposal for the New York subway (just for fun). It does not propose new construction or equipment purchases, rather it proposes modification to the services provided using existing infrastructure and less equipment.

 

This proposal might not be well received due to the amount of changes proposed (I've heard New Yorkers don't like change), however I would be interested in some feedback from individuals who can appreciate its content (compliments and criticisms are both welcome) .

 

The full 66-page proposal can be viewed here: http://www.peoplefood.org/NYC/

 

The proposed network map can be viewed here: NYC_Subway_Optimiztion_Map.png

 

(or click the map below to enlarge)

 

 

 

This map is heaven for a foamer, to be brutally honest. In mentioning the  to Bay Ridge the  to Coney Island, and a yellow   from Coney Island to the Upper East Side, I haven't even touched the surface of how much foaming is on this map.

 

Beyond all the foaming, these changes would cause epic confusion if this ever happened.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Q10 Airport

[realizm]

No, it's not going to be well recived becuase you've in effect RUINED the subway!

 

 

Do you have any idea about the needs and wants of the people who actually use the system day-in and day-out?

 

Have you done exhuastive stuides on when and where trains need to run.

 

You've made crowding WORSE becuase you haven't taken in to consideration the human factor.

 

so keep your mitts off it, bub.

 

you posted the track maps, but did you bother to read them? Half of what your suggesting is physicly impossible, the system just can't do it. You want to avoid conngestion, so you require EVERY train on the second most crowded section of the subway to use the interlocking at Roosevelt. For your next trick, are you gonna try to put out a fire with Gasoline?

 

 

Broadway junction was not ment to be a terminal so I don't know what you're doing there. What the heck was wrong with Euclid. you know, the one meant to be used as such...

 

My god. Give the guy that posted the OP a break already. How do you expect him to know all this if he just started as new member? 

 

 

 

Way too intense a response .... just break it down for the dude, don't be nasty about it!

[qjtransitmaster]

These proposals are just down right ridiculous and make no sense.  It's almost like this guy is making a mockery out of our subway system. 

dude you and B35 need to chill number one HE LIVES IN OTTAWA CANADA WHAT DO YOU EXPECT him to know about NYC!!! Lay off.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

dude you and B35 need to chill number one HE LIVES IN OTTAWA CANADA WHAT DO YOU EXPECT him to know about NYC!!! Lay off.

Yeah and?  At least he lives in another country. What's your excuse?

[Vistausss]

Broadway Junction seems not usable as a terminal indeed. Plus it has also service from the LIRR. Not that everyone wants the LIRR but they do have the option so a few subway lines AND the LIRR seem more than enough for that particular area IMHO.

Yeah and?  At least he lives in another country. What's your excuse?

 

Indeed. I live even further away from NYC but I do know quite a lot about it (and in particular the subway, LIRR, MNRR and NICE) and I'm still learning new things every day. Not living in NYC isn't an excuse to not know about the subway system, *especially* when making such maps.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Vistausss

[qjtransitmaster]

We also don't like know-it-all out of towners that have to use shaming tactics to get people to consider their proposals they won't be directly affected by.

  dude he does NOT LIVE HERE WHAT DO YOU EXPECT HIM to know about NYC travel patterns?

this is really stupid seriously... sending the B to Canarsie... you gotta be kidding me... lots of these changes would not go over well is right as you say...

 ERR DUDE DID U NOT READ? he lives in Canada!!! He asked for feedback if you can't do that silence. 

On a sidenote: I do wonder why no fantasy map maker ever extends the (or the ) past Rockaway Park. There's a long stretch beyond Rockaway Park, all the way down to Breezy Point. Why does no one, not even the IND Second System, ever draw that extension?

cause that area is deserted what you gonna do extend it to SI north shore via sea beach express and CI stillwell? Via some tunnel? Call it the LOL but yeah that part of the city is empty.

 

@OP The map is nice but those changes are too disruptive to the current ridership habits of NYC folks especially canarsie line users. But I see the reason but Broadway jct has transfer points why modify the Nassau street line?

 

The going local to speed up the has a few side effects you weaken the to an extent and the south ferry riders as well.

 

Yeah and?  At least he lives in another country. What's your excuse?

 do you even know how to be objective or just how to be a bashing jerk? 

Broadway Junction seems not usable as a terminal indeed. Plus it has also service from the LIRR. Not that everyone wants the LIRR but they do have the option so a few subway lines AND the LIRR seem more than enough for that particular area IMHO.

 

 

Indeed. I live even further away from NYC but I do know quite a lot about it (and in particular the subway, LIRR, MNRR and NICE) and I'm still learning new things every day. Not living in NYC isn't an excuse to not know about the subway system.

I guess he failed to understand travel patterns.

[qjtransitmaster]

Hello all. I'm a transit enthusiast living in Ottawa, Canada, and I recently put together a proposal for the New York subway (just for fun). It does not propose new construction or equipment purchases, rather it proposes modification to the services provided using existing infrastructure and less equipment.

 

This proposal might not be well received due to the amount of changes proposed (I've heard New Yorkers don't like change), however I would be interested in some feedback from individuals who can appreciate its content (compliments and criticisms are both welcome) .

 

The full 66-page proposal can be viewed here: http://www.peoplefood.org/NYC/

 

The proposed network map can be viewed here: NYC_Subway_Optimiztion_Map.png

 

 

(or click the map below to enlarge)

 

 

I admit I got a headache reading this but the Brighton line needs it's express service. The got violated unless you plan on swapping the terminals of the & outerboroughs but based on ridership that must be your reasoning for the segments. The to Harlem that may make sense IF it ends at bowling green via south ferry loop for connections. folks in the northern part I don't know how they will receive this and the is not needed. Don't do that to the is good enough there at Pelham bay park. nah with let it eat the new lots the rest of the changes are completely insane and not needed unless you intend to extend the to forest hills and add more cars to it.