R211 Discussion Thread

[Calvin]

44 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

For the R211S, are they going to be arranged in married 4 car or 5 car sets? Or are they going to flexible like the R44's?

The order calls for 75 cars so, it'll likely be 5-car sets. 

[U-BahnNYC]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:24 AM, Lawrence St said:

Or the  and  can be stuck with them until retirement since it’s always a complaint that they never get “new” cars.

Why do you get so apoplectic at the idea of the lines getting any new rolling stock? Like really, you're obsessed with sending new trains to the and can't stand the fact it will be the line of choice for any old junk now lol. 

[Lawrence St]

Just now, U-BahnNYC said:

Why do you get so apoplectic at the idea of the lines getting any new rolling stock? Like really, you're obsessed with sending new trains to the and can't stand the fact it will be the line of choice for any old junk now lol. 

When have I ever said anything about the .

 

[Ale188]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

The order calls for 75 cars so, it'll likely be 5-car sets. 

It is going to be 5 car sets. the R211Ss are 60 feet and like you said the order calls for 75 cars, so it is going to be 15 5-car sets if you didn't know. Just a quick answer. Not judging.

[U-BahnNYC]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

When have I ever said anything about the .

 

I'm not going into lengthy poster history but it's pretty clear you've expressed displeasure at the idea of the getting new rolling stock and take every chance you can get to think of some wild, unlikely, completely ridiculous scenario (i.e. "The R46s will actually stay on the (A)(C), guys!" or my personal recent favorite "The MTA can convert R143s from the to go on 8th ave").

You're also always complaining about people complaining the   don't get new rolling stock. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

23 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

I'm not going into lengthy poster history but it's pretty clear you've expressed displeasure at the idea of the getting new rolling stock and take every chance you can get to think of some wild, unlikely, completely ridiculous scenario (i.e. "The R46s will actually stay on the (A)(C), guys!" or my personal recent favorite "The MTA can convert R143s from the to go on 8th ave").

You're also always complaining about people complaining the   don't get new rolling stock. 

AC riders have the right to complain about not getting new trains. Also, the A C have been for many years the two most neglected subway lines in the system. A and C riders pay the same fare as everyone else.

Fortunately, the MTA finally listened to them and both lines are getting well deserved TLC with the r179's, r211's and CBTC on 8th Avenue.

[Metro CSW]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

For the R211S, are they going to be arranged in married 4 car or 5 car sets? Or are they going to flexible like the R44's?

What?

Five-car sets.... Fifteen Five-car sets.....

 

Alot of us caught wind of that since the award couple years ago.....

[AZthefoamer]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

AC riders have the right to complain about not getting new trains. Also, the A C have been for many years the two most neglected subway lines in the system. A and C riders pay the same fare as everyone else.

Fortunately, the MTA finally listened to them and both lines are getting well deserved TLC with the r179's, r211's and CBTC on 8th Avenue.

EXACTLY! As someone who rides the frequently, it is quite tiresome seeing old rolling stock consistently on them, which is why I look forward to the R211. The are getting CBTC on 8th Avenue I believe and putting it on Central Park West eventually is a necessity.

I guess this means Broadway is the dump for SMEES again, but that probably is a better place than Central Park West.

[Lawrence St]

5 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

I'm not going into lengthy poster history but it's pretty clear you've expressed displeasure at the idea of the getting new rolling stock and take every chance you can get to think of some wild, unlikely, completely ridiculous scenario (i.e. "The R46s will actually stay on the (A)(C), guys!" or my personal recent favorite "The MTA can convert R143s from the to go on 8th ave").

You're also always complaining about people complaining the   don't get new rolling stock. 

LMAO! You’re funny!

You are the one that complains the most here. Even if I did say such a thing, everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you don’t like it, you can skip to the next post like the  and  pre-2005.

[R179 8258]

Whatever happened to the 4050-4059 set thats set has been under the radar. Inly bee see 4040-4049 set ? 

[ABOGbrooklyn]

2 hours ago, AZthefoamer said:

EXACTLY! As someone who rides the frequently, it is quite tiresome seeing old rolling stock consistently on them, which is why I look forward to the R211. The are getting CBTC on 8th Avenue I believe and putting it on Central Park West eventually is a necessity.

I guess this means Broadway is the dump for SMEES again, but that probably is a better place than Central Park West.

The BMT is truly the MTA step child sadly smh..

[ArchytectAnthony]

Do you guys remember the first time we saw a pic of the r211 in like 2017 or 2018 or something where it was in kawasaki's hyogo factory in japan? I wonder what happened to it. The car number was 4256 according to the pictures at the time.

[zacster]

That was just a mockup I believe.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

17 minutes ago, zacster said:

That was just a mockup I believe.

Did anything actually change from the "mockup" to the real thing? It looks literally exactly the same even on smaller features visible from the exterior; differences could be in the technology though.

[darkstar8983]

15 hours ago, Metro CSW said:

What?

Five-car sets.... Fifteen Five-car sets.....

 

Alot of us caught wind of that since the award couple years ago.....

And it makes more sense because with individual units it’s a lot more yard moves to pull the troublesome car and spare the other three by adding them to another sitting individual car to make a new 4-car train. Now if a car gives issues, pull the whole train out and pick up an entirely good train and put it in service instead  

[Kamen Rider]

8 hours ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

Did anything actually change from the "mockup" to the real thing? It looks literally exactly the same even on smaller features visible from the exterior; differences could be in the technology though.

That’s what mock ups are. It was a completely non-functional car, built to see how the actual cars would look. After that it was probably scrapped.

[Chris89292]

14 hours ago, AZthefoamer said:

EXACTLY! As someone who rides the frequently, it is quite tiresome seeing old rolling stock consistently on them, which is why I look forward to the R211. The are getting CBTC on 8th Avenue I believe and putting it on Central Park West eventually is a necessity.

I guess this means Broadway is the dump for SMEES again, but that probably is a better place than Central Park West.

At this point I feel like the MTA is just adding new trains towards lines that’ll receive CBTC, they don’t care about the rest of the lines that need new subway cars 

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, Chris89292 said:

At this point I feel like the MTA is just adding new trains towards lines that’ll receive CBTC, they don’t care about the rest of the lines that need new subway cars 

The one thing about Broadway getting SMEE trains is that now with the R68s and their rollsigns assigned to Broadway, either 2 Av or Astoria are going to end up with many mislabeled trains, especially with the plan to make the  more versatile during rush hours in terms of more 2 Av trips and the switching between the  at Ditmars Blvd. Unless Astorias ridership drops to a level that justifies eliminating the  and 2 Av ridership stays low enough to justify removing the 96!St  trips, you’re going to end up with rollsign issues. But if ridership does drop, then each branch can get assigned one route  for 96 St and  for Astoria. But again, you have to wait and see since the R211 order is projected to grow the subway fleet in the B division which may leave SOME tech trains for Broadway (not many, but some, which may help with rollsign issues)

Edited April 22, 2023 by darkstar8983

[R179 8258]

31 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

The one thing about Broadway getting SMEE trains is that now with the R68s and their rollsigns assigned to Broadway, either 2 Av or Astoria are going to end up with many mislabeled trains, especially with the plan to make the  more versatile during rush hours in terms of more 2 Av trips and the switching between the  at Ditmars Blvd. Unless Astorias ridership drops to a level that justifies eliminating the  and 2 Av ridership stays low enough to justify removing the 96!St  trips, you’re going to end up with rollsign issues. But if ridership does drop, then each branch can get assigned one route  for 96 St and  for Astoria. But again, you have to wait and see since the R211 order is projected to grow the subway fleet in the B division which may leave SOME tech trains for Broadway (not many, but some, which may help with rollsign issues)

I honestly think the MTA could care less about rollsign issues , where they have much bigger fish to fry no disrespect to your post though

[AZthefoamer]

20 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

The one thing about Broadway getting SMEE trains is that now with the R68s and their rollsigns assigned to Broadway, either 2 Av or Astoria are going to end up with many mislabeled trains, especially with the plan to make the  more versatile during rush hours in terms of more 2 Av trips and the switching between the  at Ditmars Blvd. Unless Astorias ridership drops to a level that justifies eliminating the  and 2 Av ridership stays low enough to justify removing the 96!St  trips, you’re going to end up with rollsign issues. But if ridership does drop, then each branch can get assigned one route  for 96 St and  for Astoria. But again, you have to wait and see since the R211 order is projected to grow the subway fleet in the B division which may leave SOME tech trains for Broadway (not many, but some, which may help with rollsign issues)

As the above message stated, this is probably not something that the MTA cares enough about to fix, but a couple of NTTs might solve the issue. I doubt this would justify NTTs on Broadway though. Central Park West and 6th Avenue need it more.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

The one thing about Broadway getting SMEE trains is that now with the R68s and their rollsigns assigned to Broadway, either 2 Av or Astoria are going to end up with many mislabeled trains, especially with the plan to make the  more versatile during rush hours in terms of more 2 Av trips and the switching between the  at Ditmars Blvd. Unless Astorias ridership drops to a level that justifies eliminating the  and 2 Av ridership stays low enough to justify removing the 96!St  trips, you’re going to end up with rollsign issues. But if ridership does drop, then each branch can get assigned one route  for 96 St and  for Astoria. But again, you have to wait and see since the R211 order is projected to grow the subway fleet in the B division which may leave SOME tech trains for Broadway (not many, but some, which may help with rollsign issues)

It is not the first time that Broadway has SMEE's.

Let's not forget that the W ran between 2001 and 2010. How did the MTA handled the rollsigns during that period??

I'm pretty sure the MTA can handle the rollsign issues the same way they did before.

Broadway will become 100% NTTs when the r68's get replaced.

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

At this point I feel like the MTA is just adding new trains towards lines that’ll receive CBTC, they don’t care about the rest of the lines that need new subway cars 

Every line will receive CBTC at some point. But until that happens, the old techs have to go somewhere. And all signs are currently pointing to the Broadway line being the last line to operate old techs.

The R46s aren't gonna last forever, and when they're retired the R68s from Concourse will replace them in CIY. The R68/As are younger & in much better shape than the R46s. So no matter what the final assignments are after the R211s, Broadway will do just fine especially since there will be a higher spare count available.

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It is not the first time that Broadway has SMEE's.

Let's not forget that the W ran between 2001 and 2010. How did the MTA handled the rollsigns during that period??

I'm pretty sure the MTA can handle the rollsign issues the same way they did before.

Broadway will become 100% NTTs when the r68's get replaced.

I’m just saying to those Broadway riders, they’d better get ready to see many mislabeled trains and CIY better make sure the PA systems are working in the R68 cars. Could be advantageous to just have half the Astoria R68s labeled as  and the other half as , and then just change the front and back of the train to not confuse the masses that are running from the ends of the platform. Let’s say each car will have one rollsign with  designations and the other side as  designations, and then alternate which side of the train has the  vs  designations. Starting from the front of the train, maybe the  signs will go left side, right side, left side, right side and so-on. The  signs would go in the remaining rollsigns. Because the only other way to really do it is either:

1. Make sure the  are coming up in the correct order from 34 St to Astoria so that the southbound trips can be made ontime.
2. use the Astoria Express track to allow a late  to bypass the two or three consecutive  trains that may have been sent up. 
3. Have passengers at Ditmars Blvd wait on the platform until dispatchers decide which train will go first, keeping the trains closed down until departure time.

 

note: I’ve said this before a long time ago that until the R160s started appearing on the  they were ALWAYS ranked the worst subway lines (2000-2007)

[U-BahnNYC]

7 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It is not the first time that Broadway has SMEE's.

Let's not forget that the W ran between 2001 and 2010. How did the MTA handled the rollsigns during that period??

I'm pretty sure the MTA can handle the rollsign issues the same way they did before.

Broadway will become 100% NTTs when the r68's get replaced.

Which, knowing the pace of things at the  is realistically a decade away at least.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

Cars should not be assigned because one set of riders "derserves" new cars more than others. There should really only be 3 main factors in deciding fleet allocation listed by order of importance below:

1. Where can cars physically run. Obv we know A and B division cars are different, but even with B-divison you have cases like the  which can't handle longer 75ft trains due to sharp curves and only runs 480ft long trains. 

2. Which lines have CBTC? Lines that are partially or fully CBTC enameled should be prioritized for newer cars.

3. Demand on a given line. How frequently do trains need to run, and how crowded are those trains? Lines that have higher demand should be prioritized for newer cars.

 

If you're upset with the R211 allocations, I think the real discussion should be around what lines the MTA is choosing to implement CBTC on first. I personally think both the  and were good lines for testing the waters as they're both decently high demand and don't interline with the rest of the system. I think the main reason the MTA is now trying to do most of the IND is because of Queens BLVD being such a high ridership line with a lot of interlining and frequent headways; doing CBTC on QBLVD but not 6th and 8th Avenue sort of ruins the point.

As for Broadway, I think the MTA just needs to figure out it's service patterns. Broadway in the most interlined trunk, and having a split  train is really annoying generally. The main issue with Broadway is for the northern branches, the local lines tend to be favored since they're the only ones who can direct access 60th St tunnel, but to the South express Manhattan Bridge trains are clearly favored over Montague local trains. Any de-interlined/streamlined service plan will likely have way more tph via Montague than needed and more tph up SAS than needed.