Bosco Posted May 25, 2017 Share #601 Posted May 25, 2017 is it possible with the increasing options it could be enough to retire every old train which will result in the r68 being the old trains? Tentatively, everything up to and including the R46s are supposed to go. That would explain the increase in the order so the MTA doesn't wind up short like they did with the R179s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted May 26, 2017 Share #602 Posted May 26, 2017 Update http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1437355 The base order has changed to 450 cars (regular double end doors). Plus, 10-car prototype open gangway cars. All funded in the MTA 2015-2019 Capital Program. The option cars out of 1,100 car order: if the 10 car open gangway car train is successful, MTA will order open gangway cars in the option order. The option order will be funded 2020-2024 Capital Program. Still unclear the amount of option order. The Staten Island Railway replacement cars is still in the 2015-2019 Capital Program. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted May 26, 2017 Share #603 Posted May 26, 2017 So Staten Island is getting the R211's first? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted May 26, 2017 Share #604 Posted May 26, 2017 Update http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1437355 The base order has changed to 450 cars (regular double end doors). Plus, 10-car prototype open gangway cars. All funded in the MTA 2015-2019 Capital Program. The option cars out of 1,100 car order: if the 10 car open gangway car train is successful, MTA will order open gangway cars in the option order. The option order will be funded 2020-2024 Capital Program. Still unclear the amount of option order. The Staten Island Railway replacement cars is still in the 2015-2019 Capital Program. I already posted that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted May 26, 2017 Share #605 Posted May 26, 2017 So Staten Island is getting the R211's first? I would hope so. The R44s are in the most dire need of replacements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted May 28, 2017 Share #606 Posted May 28, 2017 I thought manufacturers needed a facility in New York to bid? If that's the case, wouldn't that disqualify CSSR? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted May 28, 2017 Share #607 Posted May 28, 2017 I thought manufacturers needed a facility in New York to bid? If that's the case, wouldn't that disqualify CSSR? They would build a facility in Fort Edwards, NY if they were to win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted May 29, 2017 Share #608 Posted May 29, 2017 They would build a facility in Fort Edwards, NY if they were to win. thought they were gonna partner with the infamous BBD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcelsiorBoii4888 Posted May 29, 2017 Share #609 Posted May 29, 2017 They would build a facility in Fort Edwards, NY if they were to win. Would they really build a facility just for an order?? How long would construction on just that facility take? What happens to the facility after this order? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted May 29, 2017 Share #610 Posted May 29, 2017 Would they really build a facility just for an order?? How long would construction on just that facility take? What happens to the facility after this order? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk could be used for other orders that's what they want if say they win other orders such as BART or whoever else 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted May 29, 2017 Share #611 Posted May 29, 2017 What will be the numbers that the R211 will be assigned to both NYC Transit & the SIR?It's wayyyyy to early to be thinking about numbers when we ding even know who's building them. Would they really build a facility just for an order?? How long would construction on just that facility take? What happens to the facility after this order? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It can also serve as a parts and Rosie center afterwards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share #612 Posted May 29, 2017 Update http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1437355 The base order has changed to 450 cars (regular double end doors). Plus, 10-car prototype open gangway cars. All funded in the MTA 2015-2019 Capital Program. The option cars out of 1,100 car order: if the 10 car open gangway car train is successful, MTA will order open gangway cars in the option order. The option order will be funded 2020-2024 Capital Program. Still unclear the amount of option order. The Staten Island Railway replacement cars is still in the 2015-2019 Capital Program. The base order has actually been increased to 460 cars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco Posted May 30, 2017 Share #613 Posted May 30, 2017 Whether or not CSSR partners with BBD (which would be a nail in the coffin for their bid on the R211s), I'm not so sure the MTA will even consider their bid at all given the urgency and scope of this contract. The last thing they need is any more headaches because they simply went with the lowest bidder. And as has been the case, CSSR's other orders are not up to snuff. If the MTA were logical about this (which they're unfortunately not always), they should just give this contract to Alstom/Kawasaki already and figure out how to split the order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted May 30, 2017 Share #614 Posted May 30, 2017 Whether or not CSSR partners with BBD (which would be a nail in the coffin for their bid on the R211s), I'm not so sure the MTA will even consider their bid at all given the urgency and scope of this contract. The last thing they need is any more headaches because they simply went with the lowest bidder. And as has been the case, CSSR's other orders are not up to snuff. If the MTA were logical about this (which they're unfortunately not always), they should just give this contract to Alstom/Kawasaki already and figure out how to split the order. cause how is it that CSSR is winning bids left and right when they have no body of work in the western hemisphere? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted May 30, 2017 Share #615 Posted May 30, 2017 cause how is it that CSSR is winning bids left and right when they have no body of work in the western hemisphere? Simple, they low bid everyone else and those operators have to take the low bid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtat Posted May 30, 2017 Share #616 Posted May 30, 2017 Whether or not CSSR partners with BBD (which would be a nail in the coffin for their bid on the R211s), I'm not so sure the MTA will even consider their bid at all given the urgency and scope of this contract. The last thing they need is any more headaches because they simply went with the lowest bidder. And as has been the case, CSSR's other orders are not up to snuff. If the MTA were logical about this (which they're unfortunately not always), they should just give this contract to Alstom/Kawasaki already and figure out how to split the order. If they meet all the pre-qualification requirements then the MTA would have to consider them. It would be unwise, legally and politically, for MTA to bypass the competitive bid process. CRRC is made up of at least 3 different subsidiaries, all with different reputations. CRRC Sifang, who is building the CTA cars, is the one with the shoddy reputation. CRRC Changchun and CRRC Tangshan are the two other subsidiaries I know of that have better reputations. I can't seem to find which of the subsidiaries is collaborating with BBD on this order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted May 30, 2017 Share #617 Posted May 30, 2017 From what I heard, BBD really wants to win the R211 order because they want to fix their reputation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted May 30, 2017 Share #618 Posted May 30, 2017 From what I heard, BBD really wants to win the R211 order because they want to fix their reputation. lol if that's the case, they should really be more worried about getting the R179 order in on time. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share #619 Posted May 30, 2017 I can tell you like this. My prediction unless BBD comes up with some crazy plan to get all types of train into service by this time next year, Alstom/Kawasaki split like the R160 program. I can see Kawasaki providing the first open-gangway R211T prototype while Alstom simultaneously provides the first R211S. Now if I were in charge, I would award somewhat of a 3-way split. Bombardier/CRRC 211S then Qualify them for future R programs or even more R211 options based off this technical evaluation and the state of the R179 at award time. Alstom/Kawasaki awards for 211A and T respectively. This allows for greater competition, a higher quality standard, a 3-way redundancy plan, a reduction in associated costs, and be able to introduce trains 3 times faster than originally planned. If one of the train manufacturers fails to comply with terms as the way BBD recently has, the contract can easily be transferred to Alstom/Kawasaki and the risk will be greatly reduced. While the other programs will hopefully remain on schedule or close to schedule, the 211T can now join one of the others and we continue to move forward. We then have trains completed by everyone who bid, and the new 2XX contract would be even more competitive and better for the MTA and even other agencies all around. Evaluate how all 3 of these trains types operate in what would essentially be the first ever Train Test And Evaluation program, very similar to what MTA now does within The Department of Buses. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted May 30, 2017 Share #620 Posted May 30, 2017 Simple, they low bid everyone else and those operators have to take the low bid. and they are state(government) funded also btw 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted May 30, 2017 Share #621 Posted May 30, 2017 So the R211's will replace the R44 and R46's, as well as the remaining R32's right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted May 30, 2017 Share #622 Posted May 30, 2017 Yep. Right now, the plan for the 211s is to replace everything older than the 68s on the B-Division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielhg121 Posted May 30, 2017 Share #623 Posted May 30, 2017 Yep. Right now, the plan for the 211s is to replace everything older than the 68s on the B-Division. Then, everything will catch up to the A-division. Everything pre-1985 gone. Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 30, 2017 Share #624 Posted May 30, 2017 I can tell you like this. My prediction unless BBD comes up with some crazy plan to get all types of train into service by this time next year, Alstom/Kawasaki split like the R160 program. I can see Kawasaki providing the first open-gangway R211T prototype while Alstom simultaneously provides the first R211S. I'm all in for Kawasaki/Alstom winning this contract...if they can get their ride quality down. The Alstom & Kawasaki R160s ride horribly, along with the R142As, and now, the new R188s. The bucking in all of those trains is horrendous. Meanwhile, the R142s are smooth as a daisy after all of these years. Those cars seem to be of higher quality than all of the Alstom/Kawasaki NTTs altogether. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted May 31, 2017 Share #625 Posted May 31, 2017 Idk, imho, the 160s are nowhere near as bad as the bombardier-propelled NTTs (142A, 143, 188) in terms of ride quality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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