R211 Discussion Thread

[TrainGamingKing9928]

1 minute ago, Kamen Rider said:

If i have to explain why the C is not 100% 10 car trains again, I'm gonna scream...

I feel bad for you.

[RandomRider0101]

3 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I'm surprised that this is being discussed in this forum. There isn't enough ten car trains to make both the "C" and "G" 100% full length and I am not counting on the r46s.

I just hope the MTA sticks with the original plan for option 1 and 2, which is to purchase mostly 10 car r211 trains. There is already a surplus of 8 car trains.

Dude, it's already been explained multiple times by @Kamen Rider (& some others) why the 'C' isn't 100% full length. It has nothing to do with the r46s or there being a lack of trains available.

207th's inspection barn isn't long enough to hold 10 car trains, hence the 8 car r179s currently assigned there. Moving the C to Pitkin also isn't an option as Pitkin can't handle both the A and C together. They can only cover about half of C service as they currently do right now.

The C going 100% full length is dependent on the inspection barn at 207th being upgraded and made bigger. Not sure if I'm missing any details here but you get the point.

Edited July 6 by RandomRider0101

[subwaycommuter1983]

51 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

If i have to explain why the C is not 100% 10 car trains again, I'm gonna scream...

I'm aware of the issue with 207. I hope the MTA is able to address this issue by upgrading the barn to accommodate longer trains.

Keeping the "C" mixed length will hurt riders down the road. Ridership will continue to grow.

Edited July 6 by subwaycommuter1983

[Metro CSW]

If only it were possible to pinned specific posts for point of reference and context.... These repeated answers look tiring AF.

[subwaycommuter1983]

25 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Dude, it's already been explained multiple times by @Kamen Rider (& some others) why the 'C' isn't 100% full length. It has nothing to do with the r46s or there being a lack of trains available.

207th's inspection barn isn't long enough to hold 10 car trains, hence the 8 car r179s currently assigned there. Moving the C to Pitkin also isn't an option as Pitkin can't handle both the A and C together. They can only cover about half of C service as they currently do right now.

The C going 100% full length is dependent on the inspection barn at 207th being upgraded and made bigger. Not sure if I'm missing any details here but you get the point.

The MTA better upgrade 207. It is already annoying for "C" train riders (especially those who ride the front or back of the train) to not know if the next "C" train is a long train or a short train.

The MTA should wait until "C" trains are jammed packed to fix 207 yard.

[Kamen Rider]

23 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Dude, it's already been explained multiple times by @Kamen Rider (& some others) why the 'C' isn't 100% full length. It has nothing to do with the r46s or there being a lack of trains available.

207th's inspection barn isn't long enough to hold 10 car trains, hence the 8 car r179s currently assigned there. Moving the C to Pitkin also isn't an option as Pitkin can't handle both the A and C together. They can only cover about half of C service as they currently do right now.

The C going 100% full length is dependent on the inspection barn at 207th being upgraded and made bigger. Not sure if I'm missing any details here but you get the point.

no, that's pretty much it. We could easily assign the C full length trains if we had the capacity to care for them. It's just that it the overall... ordering the 8 car trains was less of a hassle then having to add about 13,000 to 14,000 square feet to the building. 

If you look at an inspection shop it doesn't just need to hold the train, there has to be something of a buffer between it and the doors so people can walk around it. and the floor can ramp down, ether with a pit or with the entire floor. 

[RandomRider0101]

30 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

no, that's pretty much it. We could easily assign the C full length trains if we had the capacity to care for them. It's just that it the overall... ordering the 8 car trains was less of a hassle then having to add about 13,000 to 14,000 square feet to the building. 

If you look at an inspection shop it doesn't just need to hold the train, there has to be something of a buffer between it and the doors so people can walk around it. and the floor can ramp down, ether with a pit or with the entire floor. 

Understood. It's pretty cool to learn about some of the inner workings of what goes on behind the scenes.

In reference to this whole 207th issue, I had learned about it on the forums a while back prior to joining. About a year & a half ago, there was an exchange in this thread where a poster quoted me asking if it's true that 207th can only maintain 8 car trains. Before I had a chance to respond, another poster (who's supposedly an employee) replied to them saying 'I don't know where you heard that from'.

That lead me to be confused since I had already seen several older posts here explaining why the C is 8 cars long & it has to do with 207th's inspection barn being too short for 600 ft trains. Now seeing that you, Kamen (a confirmed employee) have explained countless times why the C is still 8 cars long, it confirms that the issue with 207th inspection barn is in fact a real issue. Just wanted to put that out there, Apologies if I'm going too far off topic.

Edited July 6 by RandomRider0101

[Kamen Rider]

basically, if you go look at 207 inspection barn on google maps right now, and compare it with the parked train of laid up R32 and R42s nearby, 

and remember, the inspection barn is the EAST side of the building. the west side is the 207th Overhaul Shop. 

 

The south end of the lineup is parked about where the south end of the train would be on the inspection track. if you parked it right smack up against the door, the ninth car probably fit fully inside, but the 10th would still be outside. 

[darkstar8983]

If overhauling the entire yard to accommodate the 10-car trains at 207 St, guess it would make more sense to just order R211s for ENY and transfer all R179s to the , while filling in any shortages in equipment for the  with R211 cars from the . That way we don’t end up with a mix of 10-car R211s and 8-car R211s, unless a protocol is written up to help  train crews distinguish between an 8-car and 10-car train. Maybe on the inside of the train in the crew cabins put a giant “8” for the conductor and operator so they’re reminded.

[danielhg121]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

If overhauling the entire yard to accommodate the 10-car trains at 207 St, guess it would make more sense to just order R211s for ENY and transfer all R179s to the , while filling in any shortages in equipment for the  with R211 cars from the . That way we don’t end up with a mix of 10-car R211s and 8-car R211s, unless a protocol is written up to help  train crews distinguish between an 8-car and 10-car train. Maybe on the inside of the train in the crew cabins put a giant “8” for the conductor and operator so they’re reminded.

Their TOD shows how many cars are in the consist I'm pretty sure. If they're so scared about opening doors off the platform, just make it one stop marker and have two zebra boards for the 4th and 5th car positions. It's not rocket science. As long as the doors open leading to concrete, we're good, everyone is safe. 

[MJHmarc]

The C will be fine with all sets being 8 cars with a mix of r179s and 211if so be it to cut cost and using the same barn size. Even the G could go to 8 cars as … 10 car and 8 car both can be considered for length. Anyways the MTA is not even near making a final decision on what that last option order will be. Not its just focus on cutting cost and retiring the r46 /r 44 so let’s just all relax.. 

[Kamen Rider]

1 hour ago, danielhg121 said:

Their TOD shows how many cars are in the consist I'm pretty sure. If they're so scared about opening doors off the platform, just make it one stop marker and have two zebra boards for the 4th and 5th car positions. It's not rocket science. As long as the doors open leading to concrete, we're good, everyone is safe. 

Aside from the fact that yes, the screen tells us how long the train is and what cars are in the consist; if you are ever unsure where you’re supposed to stop, you bring the train to the end of the platform and communicate with your partner and control. 
after all, sometimes it might not be your fault you didn’t see the right marker. Someone or something may have obscured your proper marker, or it might not exist.*

Additionally, in CBTC territory, you can not open the doors unless the computer says the train is properly berthed in the station. 

*I was working the N one night last year, a broken third rail on the southbound track on the Astoria line plus the overnight layups on the express tracks, meant we had to run wrong rail the whole way down to Queensboro Plaza. There are no southbound stop markers on the northbound track, so my partner brought his end of the train to the ends of each of the platforms and I was given direct permission to open up without a board. 

[Lawrence St]

12 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

If i have to explain why the C is not 100% 10 car trains again, I'm gonna scream...

Can you explain it again I wasn’t listening?

But in all seriousness some of you really need to start using the search button instead of asking the same question over and over

[ArchytectAnthony]

10 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

basically, if you go look at 207 inspection barn on google maps right now, and compare it with the parked train of laid up R32 and R42s nearby, 

I remember using the google map measuring tool on a bunch of B division yards (mainly bc of the barn length conversations).

Idk how accurate the tool is but basically, the 207 barn is about 600' exactly, so a garage door is gonna scrape or hit one of the ends of a 10 car train lol. Not to mention space constraints to even get around the train as you mentioned. The shortest B division yard that can handle a full length train is Concourse at ~640'. And the others that handle full length trains are longer at like 680' to 740'.

If/when expanding 207 barn is needed in the future, the northern end looks like it has a decent amount of space to extend to, so expanding 207 doesnt seem too hard. But i havent seen or heard any plans to expand 207 barn so idk.

 

[Ale188]

Did anyone report 4150-54 having the updated things in the interior, like where the doors are exiting etc.? What other sets got that? All I know is

4060-69

4070-74?

4130-34 (temporarily)

4150-54

4270-79

any more?

 

Edited July 6 by Ale188

[TrainGamingKing9928]

3 minutes ago, Ale188 said:

Did anyone report 4150-54 having the updated things in the interior, like where the doors are exiting etc.? What other sets got that? All I know is

4060-69

4070-74?

4130-34 (temporarily)

4150-54

4270-79

any more?

 

4170-79 had them when they first entered service in March. I’m not sure if they still do or not.

 

[Ale188]

2 minutes ago, TrainGamingKing9928 said:

4170-79 had them when they first entered service in March. I’m not sure if they still do or not.

 

Thanks.

[Kamen Rider]

3 hours ago, ArchytectAnthony said:

the 207 barn is about 600' exactly, so a garage door is gonna scrape or hit one of the ends of a 10 car train lol

and that's another thing... NTTs... they're actually a little longer. Train is like, 603-604 feet long anti-climber to anti-climber. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

23 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

You also can't do that on MNR/LIRR, yet here we are 

But there you may have time to change cars at every station via the platform because the c/r-trainman when he/she punches your ticket will tell you where to go.

[Median]

7 hours ago, Ale188 said:

Did anyone report 4150-54 having the updated things in the interior, like where the doors are exiting etc.? What other sets got that? All I know is

4060-69

4070-74?

4130-34 (temporarily)

4150-54

4270-79

any more?

 

4095-4099,4144-4140, 4170-4174,4175-4179,4185-4189, 4060-4064, 4070-4074 all have them.

[TrainGamingKing9928]

5 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

and that's another thing... NTTs... they're actually a little longer. Train is like, 603-604 feet long anti-climber to anti-climber. 

No wonder that 10-car R179 consist on Google Maps in 207th Street yard looked a little longer than the R46 that was next to it.

[Lex]

5 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

But there you may have time to change cars at every station via the platform because the c/r-trainman when he/she punches your ticket will tell you where to go.

Could've fooled me back in March...

[danielhg121]

9 minutes ago, Lex said:

Could've fooled me back in March...

They're usually pretty good but if they spring up bridge plates (last min which they do) or you get a rookie trainman, that's when shit hits the fan and a minute stop turns into 5 mins of just passengers shuffling throughout the train and making a mad scramble for an exiting car.  

I will say LIRR has gotten wayyyy better with the announcements of long trains, cars that won't make the platform at certain stations but their protocol is a lot more strict and it's universal where the train will stop depending on consist size. Metro-North isn't.

Edited July 7 by danielhg121

[darkstar8983]

And if anything, maybe having the  mixed or if need be all 8-car trains, the solution to solve that problem of overcrowded trains is to just run more frequent service, since it’s expected the R111 order will finally solve the issue of car shortages in the B division 

Edited July 7 by darkstar8983

[MJHmarc]

5 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

And if anything, maybe having the  mixed or if need be all 8-car trains, the solution to solve that problem of overcrowded trains is to just run more frequent service, since it’s expected the R111 order will finally solve the issue of car shortages in the B division 

At this point and likely into the future the only reason why the C is mixed length due to using the R46’s, once you take them out of the equation the C can be a set length and Increase service can definitely be an option on top of having the most reliable fleet will be a super improvement in service.