darkstar8983 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5651 Posted February 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, trainfan22 said: ? How are the Astoria and SAS slow? Those lines are mostly straight trackage with little to no timers. I take it you never ridden any of the BMT Broadway lines between Canal and DeKelb ... Now that's slow! SAS is not slow, but the 60th St tunnel line between 57 St-7 Av and 5 Av-59 St is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5652 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said: Yeah about that: There is another way to resolve the slow issues. Currently, the train capacity constraints on the Broadway Line are due to the bottlenecks on the local tracks between 34th Street-Herald Square and the 60th Street Tunnel connection. Here, the moves to the local tracks from the express tracks and shares the local tracks with the and from Lower Manhattan. 5 stops and a East River tunnel crossing later, the splits from the and to head up the Queens Blvd Line, while the and go to Astoria (the is scheduled as a branch of the route). As a result of this, all three services run at a lousy 8 trains per hour. While this is fine on trunk lines, the branches run at lower frequencies. In addition, because of the slow switches at 34th Street, there are delays and slowdowns on the entire Broadway and Astoria Line on both local and express tracks. A simple solution for this is to simply reroute the from Astoria-Ditmars to 96th Street with the , never merging with other lines. This will result in faster service on Astoria and Broadway due to the lack of switching. To replace the to Astoria, service would be increased, which would be possible by releasing some cars from service to service, which will now have its own staff schedule and train crews. The end-goal is to reroute the to Astoria and taking all Broadway service off Queens Blvd, but that's another story. However, with this one change, the will now have one less merge to deal with, improving efficiency a bit. Virtually everyone on the Astoria Line is going as far as 34th Street-Herald Sq, so nothing is lost. Line capacity on each subway line is not equal due to a variety of factors. This includes power constraints, track geography, terminal constraints (middle track at Whitehall). With all that in mind, and for simplicity, lets say that track capacity with the existing signals tops out at 24 trains per hour, or one train every 2.5 minutes. This is actually impressive train throughput, even though presently, some lines go past that. With this, all 4 Broadway services would operate at 12 trains per hour. Since there would be two services per track the whole way, both would run 24 trains, roughly the same as current local service between 60th and 34th, and a significant improvement elsewhere. Turning 12 trains is possible on the Whitehall middle track, but operations resiliency does appear to be low. However, some policy changes (which should be applied system-wide) should be able to mitigate this. I would also look into modifying operations at the Gold Street and DeKalb track junctions to better handle the increased service. Again, the only car swaps needed would be to reassign some cars from the route to the route, since the would be operating a shorter route. All in all, its as if you are getting faster and more frequent service on the Astoria Line and Broadway Line for free. It's totally more effective and efficient than CBTC, which would cost millions of dollars and take time to install. This is all the matter of scheduling trains at nearly no additional cost. And that my friends is how to fix the Broadway Line. If you split the from Queens Blvd you would need to increase service on the or create another local service that serves 63 St Rerouting the to 96 St will only subtract 2 trains max from the current requirement and the would need at least an extra 15 train sets to replace service in Astoria Edited February 14, 2020 by darkstar8983 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5653 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said: SAS is not slow, but the 60th St tunnel line between 57 St-7 Av and 5 Av-59 St is Yeah, that part is slow. But when he said Astoria line I assumed he was talking about from Queensboro Plaza to Astoria-Ditmars. Edited February 14, 2020 by trainfan22 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIP Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5654 Posted February 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, trainfan22 said: The rollsigns are heavy and if the T/O scrolling through the signs stumbles upon the Diamond first, they'll just leave it that. Close enough lol, or so I heard.. Some trains are via Sea Beach put ins. That’s why. I know of two train operators who LIKE to sign up the train as a Diamond 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremiahC99 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5655 Posted February 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said: If you split the from Queens Blvd you would need to increase service on the or create another local service that serves 63 St For the purposes of this response, I did not propose removing the from Astoria. However, a limiting factor for this is not only the need for new facilities, but also how to rearrange service on Queens Blvd and 8th Avenue along the existing tracks. Without a brand new subway in Queens, there appears to be no good way to deinterline Queens Blvd. Therefore, I was lead to believe that we should Inter Line to deinterline. What I imagine seeing is 24 trains along 53rd Street to 8th Avenue local and 24 trains along 63rd Street to/from 6th Avenue local. They would meet at the 63rd Street junction at 36th Street, where they would split into 12 8th Avenue trains to the express tracks and 12 8th Avenue trains to the local tracks, along with 12 6th Avenue trains to the express tracks and 12 6th Avenue trains to the local tracks. In this case, the and new route would go via 53rd Street and the and rerouted train take the 63rd Street tunnel. At the connection, the and take the express tracks and the and take the local tracks. This allows for passengers at stations between Long Island City and Kew Gardens/Briarwood would have one-seat rides to both 8th Avenue and 6th Avenue, since the and the would be serving the local tracks. I know you will be mortified when you will find out that my plan cuts combined and service from 30 trains per hour to 24 trains per hour, and reallocating those 6 trains to the and (current combined service is 30 trains per hour and current combined service is 18 trains per hour, for a total of 48 trains per hour). However, it is anticipated that with the providing local service to all of the 53rd Street Tunnel, most folks would be enticed to use the local train directly to their local stop rather than transfer to the overcrowded or (the is a weak line on 53rd Street, as was the before it). The new routing would provide new local service to the 63rd Street and Upper East Side, further enticing riders to switch. For those who may lose service to the Broadway Line, too bad, so sad, find another route . This should possibly reduce crowding on the and to acceptable levels and have some loads balanced. Now I know people will say that this will create a merging nightmare at 36th Street, but I find this patter better than current service. I also plan to further improve reliability and make room for the on the rest of the network but swapping the and routes so that the would go express from Canal to 145th, then on the concourse to 205th Street while the would be local from 59th Street to 168th Street. This would eliminate the merges at 59th Street, dramatically reducing the effects of the merging delays at 36th Street (currently, a merging delay at 59th Street could delay trains on nearly the entire system. Under my new plans, if there are merging delays at 36th Street, then it would only effect the , , , , , and ). Thats the goal of my plans. In addition, CBTC on Queens Blvd would allow for more wiggle room for these merging activities to happen as trains would be operate closer together (the 24 tph track capacity assumption takes into account merging as well). Car assignment changes for these changes to happen should be minimal (for the , no changes. I do see the losing a few trains since it’s now express to 205th Street. Actual train assignments would be determined). 29 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said: Rerouting the to 96 St will only subtract 2 trains max from the current requirement and the would need at least an extra 15 train sets to replace service in Astoria I have intended to have the and operate at 12 trains per hour. However, if we could also swap the and terminals so that the goes from Forest Hills to Whitehall and the operates the original route, then maybe we could have enough cars to replace current service with Astoria, even if new Astoria service would operate at 12 trains per hour. I forgot to add that some cars may have to be transferred from other B division yards, as was done before, though how many cars to be moved would be determined, and we are talking about in the near future, when the fleet is expanded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5656 Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said: If you split the from Queens Blvd you would need to increase service on the or create another local service that serves 63 St Rerouting the to 96 St will only subtract 2 trains max from the current requirement and the would need at least an extra 15 train sets to replace service in Astoria Exactly! The point is to be able to run more trains per hour without merging delays and the attendant signal and switch problems that result from them. The current Broadway services are limited due to the merge at 34th Street (or Prince St on weekends) and, to a lesser extent, the merge at DeKalb. If we get rid of at least one of those choke points, Broadway Line service overall will be much more reliable and trains can run faster and more frequently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5657 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) I'm wondering what you guys would think about the ancient days at DeKalb. Fourth Ave local, Brighton (QT) local, West End local and the Sea Beach , Brighton and the West End expresses all passing through DeKalb. Back before the 6th Avenue connection went into effect. I don't recall any complaints about merges back then. This was when the had to cross over to reach the Astoria, QB line tracks heading past 57th-7th weekdays. What's really changed as far as merging ? Just asking. Carry on. Edited February 14, 2020 by Trainmaster5 additional thought 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
them26 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5658 Posted February 14, 2020 6 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said: I agree. The MTA really hates us so they decided "let's try to put CBTC on QBL and piss off rail fans by putting R46s on the and ". Can you people stop sounding so damned spoiled? It's just a swap. It's just a train. It's just a ride. And don't come at me with the "age" excuse either. The MTA wanted to put CBTC on QBL and the sooner it's done the better. This is currently the fastest process and if they waited for the R211s it would not be online by 2021. If anyone is curious, docs from July 2015 about QBL CBTC starting at page 36: https://web.archive.org/web/20150906021415if_/http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/150720_1345_CPOC.pdf That's really the important thing. QBL is the first heavily interlined CBTC line, so the sooner it's successfully fully implemented, the sooner it can be replicated across the system. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5659 Posted February 14, 2020 If y'all were on top of your board meetings, you would have known this swap was happening when the contract for CBTC installation on trains went out years ago and the number of R160s getting upgrades added up to the number of R160s on the + the number of R160s at both Jamaica and CIY (at the time of award)... I don't know why this is causing such a big uproar right now. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5660 Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, VIP said: I know of two train operators who LIKE to sign up the train as a Diamond I personally appreciate that. It reminds me of the real with its R40s, from way back in 2001-4. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5661 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) Did the R68/As as a to 96 St appeared more few months ago? Today, waiting for a to 72nd St, it says but the rear says (It was a via Sea Beach). Most rollsigns have a from Astoria to 86 St with some empty southern terminals. There were people that asked other passengers if this is a . The answer is Yes. However, one said that this doesn't like a to me. Edited February 14, 2020 by Calvin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Train92 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5662 Posted February 14, 2020 There was a R68 this morning at around 7:50am. Saw it and was pretty shocked. Just gonna say this now if you want 160 shots at CI GET THEM ASAP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5663 Posted February 14, 2020 9 hours ago, P3F said: I personally appreciate that. It reminds me of the real with its R40s, from way back in 2001-4. I found that service pattern confusing. Like if the runs express and the local because of a service change, how are passengers suppose to know? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwwnyc123 Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5664 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) Just like / / . Circle is Local and Diamond is Express usually during AM and PM Rush Hours. Edited February 14, 2020 by bwwnyc123 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3F Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5665 Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Lawrence St said: I found that service pattern confusing. Like if the runs express and the local because of a service change, how are passengers suppose to know? I don't really remember what was done for service changes, but it probably wasn't too different from today where sometimes trains run local or trains run express. You could still tell the and apart, because they didn't share cars. The local had R68s, the express had R40s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted February 14, 2020 Share #5666 Posted February 14, 2020 18 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: I'm wondering what you guys would think about the ancient days at DeKalb. Fourth Ave local, Brighton (QT) local, West End local and the Sea Beach , Brighton and the West End expresses all passing through DeKalb. Back before the 6th Avenue connection went into effect. I don't recall any complaints about merges back then. This was when the had to cross over to reach the Astoria, QB line tracks heading past 57th-7th weekdays. What's really changed as far as merging ? Just asking. Carry on. Broadway and DeKalb would be shitting themselves every hour if that same service patterns were still in use today, completely unchanged from the 1950s/60s. Today’s micromanaging MTA would never trust train crews and dispatchers to be able to handle it. What were train frequencies on each of those lines back then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5667 Posted February 15, 2020 19 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: I'm wondering what you guys would think about the ancient days at DeKalb. Fourth Ave local, Brighton (QT) local, West End local and the Sea Beach , Brighton and the West End expresses all passing through DeKalb. Back before the 6th Avenue connection went into effect. I don't recall any complaints about merges back then. This was when the had to cross over to reach the Astoria, QB line tracks heading past 57th-7th weekdays. What's really changed as far as merging ? Just asking. Carry on. You do realize that the merge delays and capacity losses back then were so bad that the MTA chose to completely rebuild the junction, right? And even then, service did not perform all that well. The 80tph run through in the 1968 pattern got really messy, I'm told, with trains backing up onto the bridge and into Dekalb moreso than even today. All that aside, a lot has changed! Signal mods have made the system less resilient, electronic delay reporting has made numbers fudging harder, and people have higher expectations for service. Just sayin'... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m2fwannabe Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5668 Posted February 15, 2020 On 2/13/2020 at 7:00 PM, Coney Island Av said: 3484-85, 3518-19, 3610-11, 3770-71 are currently sitting in Pitkin Yard along with at least two other pairs which i could not identify. the cars appear to be intact despite being listed as retired. (unlike 3878-79 which has been OOS for two years) Very nice pictures! I admire the effort extra credit. If like last time they'll sit with the lights on for up to weeks until getting moved to 207 for processing. Sometimes the compressors keep running unattended even. They are only subway cars after all. Not like they're really alive (as opposed to "live"). Winter of 2009: I remember one set of Slants was literally FROZEN (and I mean f-r-o-z-e-n, as in ice) into place around Track 43 and was even drawing power as it broke away for the ice lake when departing for its final run to 207. What an electrical show!! She was on the barge a couple of weeks later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIP Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5669 Posted February 15, 2020 Coney Island doesn’t have anymore R160 Alstom sets anymore. Just R160B Siemens sets left. 25 sets. Mainly on the but you’ll see some on the and 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemorie Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5670 Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, VIP said: Coney Island doesn’t have anymore R160 Alstom sets anymore. Just R160B Siemens sets left. 25 sets. Mainly on the but you’ll see some on the and So a total of 26 10-car trainsets (or 260 cars) have the Siemens motor propulsion system? Sweet. The one that’s still running on the should head back to Coney Island for now, if not permanent. Always hated the Alstom motor propulsion system. I’ve always been under the impression as to why Kawasaki didn’t include the Siemens motor propulsion system on all of their 66 10-car trainsets (or 660 cars) of their R160Bs. Edited February 15, 2020 by Jemorie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboy515 Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5671 Posted February 15, 2020 6 hours ago, VIP said: Coney Island doesn’t have anymore R160 Alstom sets anymore. Just R160B Siemens sets left. 25 sets. Mainly on the but you’ll see some on the and I can confirm. The last Alstom set I ever saw was 8743-8747 and 8768-8772 on Thursday on the . Besides those sets, the has been almost entirely R160 Siemens with a few R46s and R68s thrown in occasionally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIP Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5672 Posted February 15, 2020 Now to find out when the Siemens Sets are making their way to Jamaica... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5673 Posted February 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tonyboy515 said: I can confirm. The last Alstom set I ever saw was 8743-8747 and 8768-8772 on Thursday on the . Besides those sets, the has been almost entirely R160 Siemens with a few R46s and R68s thrown in occasionally. The reason the has a few R46s / R68s thrown in is because the still has a few R160s and they’re not letting go. So the May run all 21 of its assigned trains using R160s but it’s spares are R68s and R46s 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5674 Posted February 15, 2020 So what’s the update on the amount of R46’s at Jamaica? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted February 15, 2020 Share #5675 Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said: So what’s the update on the amount of R46’s at Jamaica? 18-19 trains left. Mainly, the . --- Also, yesterday, there's 8728-8732 with 8778-8782 on the while the has 8768-8772 with 8743-8747 in-service. However, that'll change by the end of this month. Edited February 15, 2020 by Calvin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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