Far Rock Depot Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1801 Posted February 19, 2013 Finds still have glitches and why would you need it for a line that isn't going to share its trains with another line? Strip maps makes the most sense. They also put the stickers on the map since its cheaper and less time consuming than to remove the map and print up a new one just for one or 2 changes. GC hit the nail in ghe coffin. Plus, it will cost money to convert the strip map to a FIND. "Every screw, every nut, every washer, costs money" Sent from my BlackBerry PlayBook using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1802 Posted February 19, 2013 That is messed up, they should of did the same like the R-160 instead of putting new stickers everytime when it's a recent change to a subway route!! These cars will stay on the 7. No need for FIND (which *still* has endless glitches years later) in subway cars that will run on one line and never be rerouted anywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTA1992 Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1803 Posted February 19, 2013 Why are you all pointing out extensively that a machine has glitches. IT'S A MACHINE! It's going to do that. You people act as if just because it's in a subway car, it's supposed to be glitch free. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1804 Posted February 19, 2013 Because FINDs are substantially more complicated. Simple machines have far fewer glitches. As a simple machine can do the same job as a more complicated machine, why not use the simple machine? In this case, a stripmap can do the same job, better, cheaper, and more reliably. Seems like a no brainer to me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1805 Posted February 19, 2013 Why are you all pointing out extensively that a machine has glitches. IT'S A MACHINE! It's going to do that. You people act as if just because it's in a subway car, it's supposed to be glitch free. Because it's been 6 years and these annoying bugs still haven't been fixed and are still common on the R160s (at least on the ones out of a certain yard in Queens). Because nothing says "job well done" like a modern, high-tech train pulling in with one window display off, one stuck on "LAST STOP" and one carriage having both ceiling displays out and one of three FIND boards stuck on a different subway route altogether. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttcsubwayfan Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1806 Posted February 19, 2013 Why are you all pointing out extensively that a machine has glitches. IT'S A MACHINE! It's going to do that. You people act as if just because it's in a subway car, it's supposed to be glitch free. So we should add in glitch-prone technologies, just because "it's a machine", even though strip maps can do the job far better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lance Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1807 Posted February 19, 2013 I've gotta say, whenever I'm on one of the 160s, there never seems to be a problem with any of the electronics. Either I'm very lucky when it comes to this or these problems are being grossly exaggerated. Just saying. With that said, it really doesn't make any sense to put FINDs on a train that will likely never leave its intended line. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1808 Posted February 19, 2013 I've gotta say, whenever I'm on one of the 160s, there never seems to be a problem with any of the electronics. Either I'm very lucky when it comes to this or these problems are being grossly exaggerated. Just saying. With that said, it really doesn't make any sense to put FINDs on a train that will likely never leave its intended line. mmmm I feel you. It's really luck of the draw. I come across a glitch maybe 1 out of 3 times i'm on a 160. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted February 19, 2013 Share #1809 Posted February 19, 2013 I've gotta say, whenever I'm on one of the 160s, there never seems to be a problem with any of the electronics. Either I'm very lucky when it comes to this or these problems are being grossly exaggerated. Just saying. With that said, it really doesn't make any sense to put FINDs on a train that will likely never leave its intended line. I've never seen the bugs pop up on an or , only the and . It's confusing to me, to be honest; a bug is a bug is a bug and would show up on all of them, not just the ones out of one yard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1810 Posted February 20, 2013 I've gotta say, whenever I'm on one of the 160s, there never seems to be a problem with any of the electronics. Either I'm very lucky when it comes to this or these problems are being grossly exaggerated. Just saying. With that said, it really doesn't make any sense to put FINDs on a train that will likely never leave its intended line. Which is the whole point. But with some I guess it isn't enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro CSW Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1811 Posted February 20, 2013 I never see any problem with the FIND displays myself. They seem to be working just find to me. With the exception of some operators not setting the program in time and waits until the next station to fix it, but that was only once. One thing for sure, they won't be needed on the . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1812 Posted February 20, 2013 In my experience, the bugs on the FIND decreased in frequency after a year or so on the and . It's not perfect, but it's never going to be. FIND would be more useful on IRT lines that shared significant trackage, like the and - it seems like cars with strip map on one line always seem to wind up on the other. Within the cars' lifetime, the only plausible extension would be a station at 41st/10th and just maybe a station at around 23rd St, but changing the strip maps wouldn't be too difficult to add one or two stations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1813 Posted February 20, 2013 Exactly, I even said that if there are IRT lines that needs them, it'd be the 2/5 lines. So I'm not anti Find, I don't see the need for them on the 7 because those cars are not going to be shared with another line. And didn't someone say it's costly to install FINDs? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1814 Posted February 20, 2013 Exactly, I even said that if there are IRT lines that needs them, it'd be the 2/5 lines. So I'm not anti Find, I don't see the need for them on the 7 because those cars are not going to be shared with another line. And didn't someone say it's costly to install FINDs? I don't believe FINDs are inherently costly, but ripping out the strip maps to put in FINDS probably would be, because they're so different. There's nothing inherently expensive about a screen that can change its display, but if you're ripping out a linear pattern of flashing lights and rewiring it to hold said screen, it's probably not worth the effort or the cost. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestrictOnTheHanger Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1815 Posted February 20, 2013 What would be a good idea, at least while the cars are on the 7, is to have an easier way to quickly distinguish between local and express on the side signs. Doesn't really matter much to me since I board and get off at stops where it doesn't matter, but I'm always able to see whether its a or a just by looking at the LEDs. On the 142/a one has to actually watch the side sign change readings to figure out if its a local or express, and those few seconds can make a difference in making or missing the train. Perhaps a new service number would easily take care of that if the display isn't modified to show circles and diamonds, since the number is easily visible. Disclaimer: I know this probably won't get done because of cost issues, but just an idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodside7878 Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1816 Posted February 20, 2013 What would be a good idea, at least while the cars are on the 7, is to have an easier way to quickly distinguish between local and express on the side signs. Doesn't really matter much to me since I board and get off at stops where it doesn't matter, but I'm always able to see whether its a or a just by looking at the LEDs. On the 142/a one has to actually watch the side sign change readings to figure out if its a local or express, and those few seconds can make a difference in making or missing the train. Perhaps a new service number would easily take care of that if the display isn't modified to show circles and diamonds, since the number is easily visible. Disclaimer: I know this probably won't get done because of cost issues, but just an idea. Another idea is to use color backlight for local and express on the area where the upward rectangle LCD sign where #7 is display, any thoughts if this is good idea or not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1817 Posted February 20, 2013 Another idea is to use color backlight for local and express on the area where the upward rectangle LCD sign where #7 is display, any thoughts if this is good idea or not? So something like a black background and green LED for the local , and a green LED background and black text for the express? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1818 Posted February 20, 2013 What would be a good idea, at least while the cars are on the 7, is to have an easier way to quickly distinguish between local and express on the side signs. Doesn't really matter much to me since I board and get off at stops where it doesn't matter, but I'm always able to see whether its a or a just by looking at the LEDs. On the 142/a one has to actually watch the side sign change readings to figure out if its a local or express, and those few seconds can make a difference in making or missing the train. Perhaps a new service number would easily take care of that if the display isn't modified to show circles and diamonds, since the number is easily visible. Disclaimer: I know this probably won't get done because of cost issues, but just an idea. It works perfectly fine on the so I don't see the need for it... Actually, another sign for the was supposed to be (11) (as seen on the 62s), but since those side signs were only meant to show 1 digit so double digit routes became even more useless 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1819 Posted February 20, 2013 I don't believe FINDs are inherently costly, but ripping out the strip maps to put in FINDS probably would be, because they're so different. There's nothing inherently expensive about a screen that can change its display, but if you're ripping out a linear pattern of flashing lights and rewiring it to hold said screen, it's probably not worth the effort or the cost. FINDs cost more to manufacture, maintain and repair, period. The price of the 142/143/188s strip maps are way cheaper than the FINDs on the 160s. Every R160 car has 2 FINDs consisting of one LCD screen for video and route info display and a numerous amount of LEDs for route info(stops, transfer routes, etc). The strip maps (2 per car) have a lower number of LEDs each representing a stop. An amount that anyone can count in less that 20 seconds for each map I might add. If 2 R188 cars were built from scratch, one with the strip maps and one with the FINDs, the One with the FINDs will cost more. Sure in may not be alot more, but it will still cost more. Theres the manufacture. The strip maps have to be programmed to illuminate a certain number of dots, in a certain order. and light one arrow. A FIND has to be programed to display the Bullet/Route on a screen, and list every single stop, in order according to the time of day. Its Transfers/connections, according to the time of day. Then theres reroutes and GO routing. Theres your maintain. And repair? Think about that. whether they come with the FIND or refitted with one, it will still either way cost more money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1820 Posted February 20, 2013 FINDs cost more to manufacture, maintain and repair, period. The price of the 142/143/188s strip maps are way cheaper than the FINDs on the 160s. Every R160 car has 2 FINDs consisting of one LCD screen for video and route info display and a numerous amount of LEDs for route info(stops, transfer routes, etc). The strip maps (2 per car) have a lower number of LEDs each representing a stop. An amount that anyone can count in less that 20 seconds for each map I might add. If 2 R188 cars were built from scratch, one with the strip maps and one with the FINDs, the One with the FINDs will cost more. Sure in may not be alot more, but it will still cost more. Theres the manufacture. The strip maps have to be programmed to illuminate a certain number of dots, in a certain order. and light one arrow. A FIND has to be programed to display the Bullet/Route on a screen, and list every single stop, in order according to the time of day. Its Transfers/connections, according to the time of day. Then theres reroutes and GO routing. Theres your maintain. And repair? Think about that. whether they come with the FIND or refitted with one, it will still either way cost more money. Just one correction: there are 3 FIND displays on each R160. An IRT car, shorter in length, might suffice with only two FINDS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depotofrelax Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1821 Posted February 20, 2013 Just a comment. I know it would happen 20%. If you believe R188 ( with Bombardier Propulsion ) will fail running on the 7 line.... Bombardier Propulsion i like. you said it right.. R188 should of carry Alstom propulsion. R188 should become 5 cars sets. Why hate Bombardier Propulsion. R188 still is R142A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depotofrelax Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1822 Posted February 20, 2013 It works perfectly fine on the so I don't see the need for it... Actually, another sign for the was supposed to be (11) (as seen on the 62s), but since those side signs were only meant to show 1 digit so double digit routes became even more useless It would be good for 5 line... You would see R62A would run 5 line. loaning a R62A ... Only a set.. During OPTO Dyre Avenue Shuttle late night time. As 6 line or Westchester Yard have right to loan R142 Bombardier of UnionPort Yard home of 5 line. Share same yard as based out that train yard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nflamez Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1823 Posted February 20, 2013 A FIND would only be useful if trains get rerouted, and I wouldn't expect a train in passenger service on the to be diverted onto Broadway/Astoria. If a station is closed, the dot for it is simply disabled... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted February 20, 2013 Share #1824 Posted February 20, 2013 Just one correction: there are 3 FIND displays on each R160. An IRT car, shorter in length, might suffice with only two FINDS. You are right. Theres one over 3 windows total. My brain was locked on IRT dimensions forgetting how many are in the 160 compared to their IRT counterparts. But the main point was how many FIND's would be in an IRT car. A FIND would only be useful if trains get rerouted, and I wouldn't expect a train in passenger service on the to be diverted onto Broadway/Astoria. If a station is closed, the dot for it is simply disabled... And since that would not happen period, Then FINDs and unnecessary on the Flushing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted February 21, 2013 Share #1825 Posted February 21, 2013 Just a comment. I know it would happen 20%. If you believe R188 ( with Bombardier Propulsion ) will fail running on the 7 line.... Bombardier Propulsion i like. you said it right.. R188 should of carry Alstom propulsion. R188 should become 5 cars sets. Why hate Bombardier Propulsion. R188 still is R142A Just one acronym: WTF? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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