Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Nothing is going to stop the MTA from doing so.

 

Lol  good luck Lehman doesn't need an express bus end of story.

How do you know that? There are college students that DO use the express buses.  We get a lot of college students that use the BxM1 for Hunter College.

[qjtransitmaster]

How do you know that? There are college students that DO use the express buses.  We get a lot of college students that use the BxM1 for Hunter College.

Why you think bxm4a got cut? Just stop already with the nonsense. The purpose of an express is to actually be EXPRESS.

Edited August 13, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why you think bxm4a got cut? Just stop already with the nonsense. The purpose of an express is to actually be EXPRESS.

We're not talking about the BxM4A, nor is it nonsense that college students use the express bus because they do.  Your anti BxM4 rhetoric is getting rather old.

[qjtransitmaster]

We're not talking about the BxM4A, nor is it nonsense that college students use the express bus because they do.  Your anti BxM4 rhetoric is getting rather old.

Duplication talking about a dead horse is getting old try discussing areas with a legitimate need.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Duplication talking about a dead horse is getting old try discussing areas with a legitimate need.

What duplication?  You still didn't answer as to how you knew that students at Lehman wouldn't use the express bus...

[qjtransitmaster]

We're not talking about the BxM4A, nor is it nonsense that college students use the express bus because they do.  Your anti BxM4 rhetoric is getting rather old.

Hunter college is easy to reach by express bus and unlike a certain deadhorse bxm1 gets the use to justify it's levels and existence.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Nothing is going to stop the MTA from doing so.

 

Lol  good luck Lehman doesn't need an express bus end of story.

Yes, something called community opposition.

[qjtransitmaster]

What duplication?  You still didn't answer as to how you knew that students at Lehman wouldn't use the express bus...

If they would the bxm4a would still run. Most can get a seat on the that high up on the route. Plus those going to the Westside have the at rush hr.

Yes, something called community opposition.

Is it strong enough we aren't taking about a high use line like the QM24 you know. If you look at all the express buses in the MTA system the ones with the highest ridership tend to be the one's farthest away from the subway or the subway lines that do go there are abysmal and slow I am pointing at you. Or in ssome cases stupidly crowded in the outer borough areas and Manhattan cough . The deadhorse as someone said has Woodlawn riders closer to MNRR and Bainbridge ave close to 3 subway lines one that has peak hr express service and one at peak offering direct Cpw local service and when you get on the upper crosstowns most are unlikely to stop before 5th ave. The Concorse is the weakest part of the route what you think will happen when or if I-87 gets an HOV? Each line is the way it is for several Reasons at this point your using emotional reasons. You can deny all you want but it's true even in your exchange with VG8 in other threads.

Edited August 13, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Hunter college is easy to reach by express bus and unlike a certain deadhorse bxm1 gets the use to justify it's levels and existence.

That has nothing to do with the question I asked though. 

[B35 via Church]

Burke Avenue is pretty close to Gun Hill Road. It parallels the Bx28/30/38 for the most part. You might as well add extra Bx30 (which I don't think is needed). That route is just too indirect for anyone to use.

I don't know how many ideas I've seen over the years that entails connecting co-op city to Baychester ..... That's all that "Bx37" is about.....

 

The idea of the Tracey Towers was simply as a through routing for bypassing the Concourse...I would propose it still for select trips because most of the Concourse is dead insofar as express ridership is cocnerned. An alternate plan might have the route bypass Sedgwick, but have the bus use Fordham to University to Reservoir Avenue, to serve Lehman College before Norwood.

When you say "via Tracey Towers" (which is a building), you're implicating that the route would directly serve it...

 

Anyway, if the concourse is dead as you claim it is, then why bother branching the BxM3 along it???

What makes you think any more Concourse riders would take BxM3's, over the current amt. of ppl. taking BxM4's along it now?

 

As far as your alternate BxM3 plan.... I'm not taking it seriously, when you bring up having buses run along university....

Having buses serve that area at the back end of Lehman isn't too bright..... You're suggesting far more waste here than the BxM4 running along the Concourse does.....

 

Look, I don't know what you have against Sedgwick av for the BxM3, but there is zero need to have anymore trips bypassing Sedgwick than they already do..... Leave that route out of this.

 

That would right into the MTA;s hands to cut the trips off that route.

His plan would make it too easy for the MTA to cut trips off both the BxM3 and the BxM4......

 

Lol  good luck Lehman doesn't need an express bus end of story.

I have to agree with this...

 

There are college students that DO use the express buses.....

I highly doubt those Lehman kids would use (or would have a need for) an express bus (they act just as immature as kingsborough students, I shit you not)... Pro express bus push need not apply here....

 

Regardless, I'm not buying either one of his (AEMoreira's) BxM3 plans; the initial one he brought up, or his "alternate" plan.... Trying to use Lehman College as a reason for the BxM3 to skip Sedgwick is nothing short of dumb....

 

Why you think bxm4a got cut?....

Lol.... The only thing in that area on that side of the railyard is Lehman, Bronx HS of Science, and some apartment complex on paul/205th (which maybe like 2 or 3 people at best used the old BxM4a).....

Edited August 14, 2014 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

 

 

The first two stops in mind is what helps justify running the BxM4 along the Concourse.  You have a few co-ops between 158th and 165th, and that's where most of the improvements have been along the Concourse in terms of financial improvements by the borough president from what I understand, along with the Yankees.  You also have the courthouses right there and the Bronx Museum at 165th.  However after those two stops is where the problem is.  You don't have any co-ops or condos to speak of that would draw the type of clientele looking for express bus service.  There are plenty of apartment buildings but the folks simply can't afford the express bus and that's the problem. If there was gentrification further north of 165th street, I could see the BxM4 gaining more riders.  The other issue is the frequency.  The BxM4 runs right by Montefiore Medical Center and the Children's Hospital at Montefiore which could be a HUGE generator, but instead only a few folks use it because it run frequent enough.  The BxM10 gets a TON of ridership from Albert Einstein and Montefiore there in Morris Park, and I've heard from some B/O's along the BxM4 that some folks working at Montefiore stopped using it because they kept changing the run times and making almost impossible for them to catch the bus so they switched to the subway.  If the BxM4 was better advertised and ran even with just 30 minute frequencies for longer stretches of the day it would be more attractive, but with hourly headways, the buses can be quite delayed and the waits can be long.

 

The other issue is advertising. I know for example that the Montefiore advertises the BxM10, but I'm not sure how well other organizations or businesses advertise the BxM4.  The Bronx Zoo certainly advertises the BxM11 which is why weekend ridership on the BxM11 is good because a lot of tourists and folks from the Upper East Side use the express bus (as a family) to go to the Zoo.  The could advertise the BxM4 for Yankee games, but instead they advertise Metro-North.

 

Really so ALL co-ops require express buses?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Really so ALL co-ops require express buses?

Try to follow along.... We were talking about successful express bus routes and the type of clientele that is necessary for express buses. People that own, be it in a co-op or condo tend to have more disposable income and are the types that will use the express bus. That's precisely why for example the Riverdale express buses do so much better in Central Riverdale and Spuyten Duyvil as opposed to North Riverdale because both areas have TONS of co-ops and condos and they are the perfect market to have express buses.  Some buildings literally have express bus service right outside of the building and they are massive, so there's a large base to draw from.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

How do you know that? There are college students that DO use the express buses.  We get a lot of college students that use the BxM1 for Hunter College.

 

 

Why you think bxm4a got cut? Just stop already with the nonsense. The purpose of an express is to actually be EXPRESS.

 

 

We're not talking about the BxM4A, nor is it nonsense that college students use the express bus because they do.  Your anti BxM4 rhetoric is getting rather old.

 

 

Duplication talking about a dead horse is getting old try discussing areas with a legitimate need.

 

 

What duplication?  You still didn't answer as to how you knew that students at Lehman wouldn't use the express bus...

 

 

Hunter college is easy to reach by express bus and unlike a certain deadhorse bxm1 gets the use to justify it's levels and existence.

It's been 4 years since the BxM4A got eliminated. You don't know if there's a new base or not, depedning on new admission and where they live and such. That first trip to the Bronx could do wonders for any potential students.

If they would the bxm4a would still run. Most can get a seat on the that high up on the route. Plus those going to the Westside have the at rush hr.

 

Is it strong enough we aren't taking about a high use line like the QM24 you know. If you look at all the express buses in the MTA system the ones with the highest ridership tend to be the one's farthest away from the subway or the subway lines that do go there are abysmal and slow I am pointing at you. Or in ssome cases stupidly crowded in the outer borough areas and Manhattan cough . The deadhorse as someone said has Woodlawn riders closer to MNRR and Bainbridge ave close to 3 subway lines one that has peak hr express service and one at peak offering direct Cpw local service and when you get on the upper crosstowns most are unlikely to stop before 5th ave. The Concorse is the weakest part of the route what you think will happen when or if I-87 gets an HOV? Each line is the way it is for several Reasons at this point your using emotional reasons. You can deny all you want but it's true even in your exchange with VG8 in other threads.

They started cutting trips last year on the QM24...

 

( In bold): What does that have to do with the BxM4.

Edited August 13, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

Really so ALL co-ops require express buses?

It's not about "requiring".... That's like saying *all local buses require a connection to a subway line*....

 

The point, simply put is, your chances at spurring ridership on express routes increases......

 

It's been 4 years since the BxM4A got eliminated. You don't know if there's a new base or not, depedning on new admission and where they live and such. That first trip to the Bronx could do wonders for any potential students.

I get the sense that the vast majority of Lehman students are Bronx residents....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I get the sense that the vast majority of Lehman students are Bronx residents....

And what about the professors?? Also what gives you that impression?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

And what about the professors?? Also what gives you that impression?

Although you could get riders out of Lehman (maybe a few, without tinkering the route), I highly doubt professors would use this. I mean, look how much money a college professor makes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Although you could get riders out of Lehman (maybe a few, without tinkering the route), I highly doubt professors would use this. I mean, look how much money a college professor makes.

You are assuming a lot... We have plenty of doctors and other professional types that use the express bus to get to Mount Sinai or Hunter College.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

You are assuming a lot... We have plenty of doctors and other professional types that use the express bus to get to Mount Sinai or Hunter College.  

Yeah, but where I'm saying is, where they reside. I mean, you could have most professors coming from Westchester, or Rockland, which the express bus for them won't help. If they live within the bronx, they would drive. Most teachers or professors that teach (especially in colleges) tend to drive, and I'm willing to bet it's because many come from the suburbs. Sure, you may have a few who use public transportation, but I won't say that many will come by means of the express bus. More often than not, if they live within the city but have to pass through Manhattan, forget it. They'll most likely drive.

[qjtransitmaster]

Question how many throngs neck people are looking for downtown service? Direct downtown service?

 

 

Yeah, but where I'm saying is, where they reside. I mean, you could have most professors coming from Westchester, or Rockland, which the express bus for them won't help. If they live within the bronx, they would drive. Most teachers or professors that teach (especially in colleges) tend to drive, and I'm willing to bet it's because many come from the suburbs. Sure, you may have a few who use public transportation, but I won't say that many will come by means of the express bus. More often than not, if they live within the city but have to pass through Manhattan, forget it. They'll most likely drive.

Actually Rockland county has buses to GWB and orange county has a direct bus to the east side via GWB. Westchester has metro-north.

Edited August 14, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

Try to follow along.... We were talking about successful express bus routes and the type of clientele that is necessary for express buses. People that own, be it in a co-op or condo tend to have more disposable income and are the types that will use the express bus. That's precisely why for example the Riverdale express buses do so much better in Central Riverdale and Spuyten Duyvil as opposed to North Riverdale because both areas have TONS of co-ops and condos and they are the perfect market to have express buses.  Some buildings literally have express bus service right outside of the building and they are massive, so there's a large base to draw from.

you do realize you can't compare the BXM1/2 to the 4 and also subway service in Riverdale is poor and requires a connection to get to midtown quickly. You can't compare a bus with a PITA line like the as it's alternative to a bus with 3 peak 2 offpeak different rail/subway lines as alternatives.  

 

It's been 4 years since the BxM4A got eliminated. You don't know if there's a new base or not, depedning on new admission and where they live and such. That first trip to the Bronx could do wonders for any potential students.

 

They started cutting trips last year on the QM24...

 

( In bold): What does that have to do with the BxM4.

Qm24 ok any attempt to protect trips I would agree with. I think they are trying to force people into the   And Q38.

Edited August 14, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, but where I'm saying is, where they reside. I mean, you could have most professors coming from Westchester, or Rockland, which the express bus for them won't help. If they live within the bronx, they would drive. Most teachers or professors that teach (especially in colleges) tend to drive, and I'm willing to bet it's because many come from the suburbs. Sure, you may have a few who use public transportation, but I won't say that many will come by means of the express bus. More often than not, if they live within the city but have to pass through Manhattan, forget it. They'll most likely drive.

You have a point, but I still think it wouldn't be wise to assume so many things with any information.  

[qjtransitmaster]

You have a point, but I still think it wouldn't be wise to assume so many things with any information.  

One of your strong points but be warned this tactic of yours can be used against you.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Question how many throngs neck people are looking for downtown service? Direct downtown service?

 

 

 

Actually Rockland county has buses to GWB and orange county has a direct bus to the east side via GWB. Westchester has metro-north.

I don't know exactly at your first question

 

And for your second statement, we're talking about travel to Lehman College from such areas, not from Manhattan.

 

I don't know how an express from the East Bronx would do, but here's my rendition of one:

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0005008c88484038f913a&msa=0&ll=40.750638,-73.845978&spn=0.192724,0.41851

Edited August 14, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

One of your strong points but be warned this tactic of yours can be used against you.

For your Throggs Neck comment, those people that need Downtown service can transfer to the BxM18.  It's folks in Riverdale that use Downtown service the most hence why we have the service.  However, there were talks of having expanded express bus service from Throggs Neck IF congestion pricing passed, but obviously that didn't happen.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

And what about the professors?? Also what gives you that impression?

What about them?? Who said anything about professors.....

You objected to QJT's conjecture about Lehman not needing an express bus by bringing up college students.....

 

As far as my impression... Well for starters, just the sheer amount of them that linger about the general area (commercial Jerome av) around & after 5,6,7pm.... Someone that lives in one of the other outerboroughs is gonna be less inclined to doing that, since there aren't any dorms around the campus (at least, that I know of)..... We're not exactly talking about an area that someone else would want to hang around at...

 

You are assuming a lot... We have plenty of doctors and other professional types that use the express bus to get to Mount Sinai or Hunter College.  

All 4 of us are, hence a commencement of the discussion about Lehman & express bus service....

 

 

Although you could get riders out of Lehman (maybe a few, without tinkering the route), I highly doubt professors would use this. I mean, look how much money a college professor makes.

So do I, but not for the reason you give.... Quite sure they make enough for them to be able to afford to take the express bus.....

Affordability (from the professors) isn't the issue - unless you're trying to say they make SO much more money that they wouldn't be caught dead riding public transportation, which is a whole 'nother issue/discussion.....

 

The fact that they'd have to make their way to Manhattan to take an express bus to Lehman I'd believe would be enough of a deterrent.... Meaning, let's face it, they're gonna continue driving to work.... You would get more students (that could afford taking the express) willing to put up w/ that transferring b/w modes, over professors....

 

In either case (students or professors), we're talking pretty low amounts of potential riders....