New Jersey Transit - Random Thoughts Thread

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Silver Script said:

Well I didn't expect to see the 20852 on the 44 this morning. I guess that line gets a lot of people.

Since I saw it as it was turning the corner at Central and University Aves going to Penn Station, it only had about 7 people on it.

IDK if I'd have CTFU or have had a straight up deadpan look upon seeing a frickin artic on the #44 of all routes....

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

4 hours ago, Silver Script said:

Well I didn't expect to see the 20852 on the 44 this morning. I guess that line gets a lot of people.

Since I saw it as it was turning the corner at Central and University Aves going to Penn Station, it only had about 7 people on it.

Yeah the 44 isn't a particularly busy line from what I've seen. Despite it going to Newark Penn Station, it seems the 24 is busier (in terms of crowding per bus) along the Central Avenue corridor.

For what it's worth, the official numbers are as follows:

24: 8414 weekdays, 6091 Saturdays, 4109 Sundays

44: 1013 weekdays, 545 Saturdays, 420 Sundays

Obviously, the 24 is more frequent, and twice the length of the 44, but to give an idea, it gets almost 10 times the ridership of the 24.

Lol.... it's not even a question the #24 is way more sought after than the #44... At best, the #44 is an overflow bus whenst along Central...

You say despite, but I'd say the fact that the #44's ending at Newark Penn makes that route less attractive, compared to the #24 - even if you ignore everything south of Market st, en route to Elizabeth..... Market st. itself though for the Orange bound #24 (regardless of branch) alone brings in more riders for the #24 than the #44 could ever hope to garner/attain at Newark-Penn....

As an attempt to spur more ridership on the thing, I'd turn the #44 away from Orange at this point & turn it down towards South Orange instead.... That'll likely mean they'll dead every #31 at Dover st. loop (which what I believe NJT ultimately wants to do with that route anyway)....

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

For what it's worth, the official numbers are as follows:

24: 8414 weekdays, 6091 Saturdays, 4109 Sundays

44: 1013 weekdays, 545 Saturdays, 420 Sundays

Obviously, the 24 is more frequent, and twice the length of the 44, but to give an idea, it gets almost 10 times the ridership of the 24.

How recent are these numbers?

Specifically, are these numbers representative of ridership ever since NJT took over operations?

[chrisg69911]

On the topic of the 24, is there a reason why the buses run suffixes but the schedule doesn't show them like on every other schedule? It shows it on the shitty map they have at the bottom of the schedules and into the GTFS, so literally adding a column with letters shouldn't be that difficult

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

23 hours ago, DCTransitFilms said:

@BM5 via Woodhaven lol I was fanning at Atlantic City on Labor Day when you were there I think. What bus did you have going to AC and Philly?

Had to take a look through my photos since I didn't remember them. I got 18104 on the 319 leg and 17075 on the 551 leg. 

[Lawrence St]

27 minutes ago, chrisg69911 said:

On the topic of the 24, is there a reason why the buses run suffixes but the schedule doesn't show them like on every other schedule? It shows it on the shitty map they have at the bottom of the schedules and into the GTFS, so literally adding a column with letters shouldn't be that difficult

Half of these routes shouldn't have suffixes/variations to begin with. It's not necessary when NJT has a whole roster of numbers to use from 100 to 999. I could understand having ONE to designate a special super-express or ONE branch.

[DCTransitFilms]

9 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Had to take a look through my photos since I didn't remember them. I got 18104 on the 319 leg and 17075 on the 551 leg. 

I got a pic of 17075 when I was there. Didn't see it leave though since I went to the outlets with my cousin. Funny we were at the terminal at the same time lol.

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Lol.... it's not even a question the #24 is way more sought after than the #44... At best, the #44 is an overflow bus whenst along Central...

You say despite, but I'd say the fact that the #44's ending at Newark Penn makes that route less attractive, compared to the #24 - even if you ignore everything south of Market st, en route to Elizabeth..... Market st. itself though for the Orange bound #24 (regardless of branch) alone brings in more riders for the #24 than the #44 could ever hope to garner/attain at Newark-Penn....

As an attempt to spur more ridership on the thing, I'd turn the #44 away from Orange at this point & turn it down towards South Orange instead.... That'll likely mean they'll dead every #31 at Dover st. loop (which what I believe NJT ultimately wants to do with that route anyway)....

Yeah I still don't understand for the life of me what NJT has against that western segment of the 31. But yes, I'd tend to agree...the 21/71/73 are much more frequent/direct and sought after for those seeking Newark Penn specifically, and the 24 (and 41 for that matter) also provides service to Downtown Newark. South Orange could use the extra service moreso than Orange.

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

How recent are these numbers?

Specifically, are these numbers representative of ridership ever since NJT took over operations?

Those numbers are from May 2024 (so well into the NJT takeover). I see some anomalies with them (there's some routes that show ridership on days they don't even run...they have the 319 showing 1700 riders exactly on both Saturday and Sunday), but for the most part the numbers don't seem too outlandish.

BTW, for the old DeCamp lines, the weekday numbers are as follows:

101: 293

102: 566

105: 256

109: 693

For reference, the 108 gets 1671 riders on weekdays, so for the 102 to get over a third of that, and the 109 to get almost half that, in a few hours of service (and having been truncated compared to their original DeCamp routes, which is another thing that should be fixed) definitely indicates that it's past due for those routes to get off-peak service (I'd personally have both of those routes stop in Union City off-peak...especially the 109).

Edited September 7 by checkmatechamp13

[jass]

On 9/3/2024 at 4:52 PM, Lawrence St said:

Greyhound no longer runs to the AC bus terminal which was extremely surprising to me.

Where do they go now?

[DCTransitFilms]

14 minutes ago, jass said:

Where do they go now?

As ik Caesars, Resorts, and Tropicana 

[BlueArrowProductions]

On 9/7/2024 at 6:38 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

For reference, the 108 gets 1671 riders on weekdays, so for the 102 to get over a third of that, and the 109 to get almost half that, in a few hours of service (and having been truncated compared to their original DeCamp routes, which is another thing that should be fixed) definitely indicates that it's past due for those routes to get off-peak service (I'd personally have both of those routes stop in Union City off-peak...especially the 109).

108 despite running from downtown Newark to Midtown has low ridership due to most traveling between the two cities on PATH. The 108 is more expensive and slower. I'm surprised it is still here, despite also the Northeast Corridor (Newark Penn Station)and M&E (Broad Street) following the route and also running less frequently.

[chrisg69911]

Bill S2607 just got passed today, which makes private bus companies give notice for significant route cutbacks, at least 4 months notice to the NJMVC and NJT and 3 months notice to customers plus a public meeting within 15 days of notice. Violations include penalties up to $10,000. This hopefully ensures no one else does what Community Coach did this summer. This bill was also introduced all the way back in February 

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, chrisg69911 said:

Bill S2607 just got passed today, which makes private bus companies give notice for significant route cutbacks, at least 4 months notice to the NJMVC and NJT and 3 months notice to customers plus a public meeting within 15 days of notice. Violations include penalties up to $10,000. This hopefully ensures no one else does what Community Coach did this summer. This bill was also introduced all the way back in February 

I mean, when the government refuses to help you run bus service and you try until you can't sustain service anymore and cut it, and then they come out with this new rule, just seems like a slap in the face to private bus operators.

That's just my opinion. 

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, BlueArrowProductions said:

108 despite running from downtown Newark to Midtown has low ridership due to most traveling between the two cities on PATH. The 108 is more expensive and slower. I'm surprised it is still here, despite also the Northeast Corridor (Newark Penn Station)and M&E (Broad Street) following the route and also running less frequently.

The ridership isn't that low. There's a lot of intermediate riders to/from Union City on that route, which is not served by any commuter rail station (not to mention Newark Airport riders using it to connect to/from the #62). 

[jass]

23 hours ago, BlueArrowProductions said:

108 despite running from downtown Newark to Midtown has low ridership due to most traveling between the two cities on PATH. The 108 is more expensive and slower. I'm surprised it is still here, despite also the Northeast Corridor (Newark Penn Station)and M&E (Broad Street) following the route and also running less frequently.

Charging more for the bus than rail is prime BS.

[JAzumah]

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I mean, when the government refuses to help you run bus service and you try until you can't sustain service anymore and cut it, and then they come out with this new rule, just seems like a slap in the face to private bus operators.

That's just my opinion. 

At this point, any remaining carriers with private intrastate bus service will likely pull out of the market.

In addition, bankruptcy law would override this rule because it is a federal procedure.

[MNR Beacon Line]

On 9/12/2024 at 11:17 PM, jass said:

Charging more for the bus than rail is prime BS.

Whoever said that the 108 isn't busy is wrong. It gets to packed standing room, at least 80% of the ridership is Newark-Union City which has no good alternative. They don't want Newark residents going to the city to clog up the bus when they could easily take the train instead.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 9/12/2024 at 11:17 PM, jass said:

Charging more for the bus than rail is prime BS.

 

2 hours ago, MNR Beacon Line said:

Whoever said that the 108 isn't busy is wrong. It gets to packed standing room, at least 80% of the ridership is Newark-Union City which has no good alternative. They don't want Newark residents going to the city to clog up the bus when they could easily take the train instead.

It doesn't really have much to do with trying to keep people off the bus for Newark - NYC trips. It's just how the zone system happens to be set up (It would be strange to have the 107 be Zone 4 for Newark while the 108 is only Zone 3).

It's the same with the buses from Newark to Orange/East Orange and Bloomfield/Montclair being $2.90, while the train is only $2.55.

[Mtatransit]

On 9/12/2024 at 7:23 PM, chrisg69911 said:

Bill S2607 just got passed today, which makes private bus companies give notice for significant route cutbacks, at least 4 months notice to the NJMVC and NJT and 3 months notice to customers plus a public meeting within 15 days of notice. Violations include penalties up to $10,000. This hopefully ensures no one else does what Community Coach did this summer. This bill was also introduced all the way back in February 

Here is the industries response to the bill

Cowley said the association appreciated Ruiz’ willingness to work with us to make amendments reflected in the final law to exclude private bus operators who do charters, casino runs, and other non-commuter runs.

I guess that means it only includes run that NJ provides buses for. A major cut is 25% or greater. For the number of runs most private operator runs, 25% could literally mean 1-2 trip

Hold public hearing? lol. What are the operators supposed to do, change their mind and continue to run service at a loss?

Edited yesterday at 09:55 AM by Mtatransit