New York Add Three-Door Buses To Some Routes

[GojiMet86]

Buses With 3 Doors? What’s a Rider to Do?

 

 

By CHRISTINE HAUGHNE

 

 

 

 

Published: April 17, 2012

 

In many cities around the world, there are simple established rules for riding buses: board at the front and exit at the back, making for an orderly passenger flow.

A passenger exiting on East 79th Street through the middle door. Transit officials say too many people use the front door to get off the long buses.

Somehow, the pattern never caught on in New York, where every day at every stop, riders barge out of the front doors as new ones try to enter.

Some people like to go out where they came in; they like having human contact at both ends of the trip, to say goodbye or offer thanks. Some try to avoid such interactions, or want to get off closer to the intersection the bus has just passed, or abide by the precept that exiting through the rear saves time for everyone. And some simply go out through the closer door.

Passengers who exit at the rear are not always rewarded; the back doors can stick. Thwarted riders pound on the doors and shout “Back door!” as if beckoning help from the gods, until the doors open and they can hurl themselves off.

Now, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has added a complication to the equation: a third door on some of the long buses with accordionlike midsections. One door is at the front, one is just before the midsection and the third is at the rear.

The buses were recently introduced on some crosstown routes, like 79th Street in Manhattan; the transportation authority plans to bring them to routes on 14th and 23rd Streets.

The new buses have announcements that clearly state, “Please exit through the rear door,” before and after every stop.

But transit officials recognize that making something easier does not mean riders will take advantage of the change. Howard H. Roberts Jr., a former president of New York City Transit, said the agency had struggled with exiting problems on buses for years. He said it was especially hard because the fronts of buses are often filled with elderly passengers who want to minimize how much walking they do.

“They prefer to get off at the front, the same door they got on,” Mr. Roberts said. “It’s a cultural thing, and it’s not particularly easy to solve that problem.”

Having to decide among Doors No. 1, 2 and 3 is not necessarily simple.

Elyse Goldstein, an Upper East Side psychologist with a practice only steps from the 79th Street route, was invited to observe how bus passengers made their exiting choices; she suspected the route’s more privileged riders liked to exit from the front because the front door was associated with the service and safety they were accustomed to.

“When you’re leaving through the front door, it’s like someone is holding the door for you. It’s like when you’re exiting a building,” Dr. Goldstein said. “The back door, you actually have to press it and sometimes it gets stuck. The back door has more real or imagined perils. You could be stuck there screaming ‘Back door! Back door!’ ”

Shortly after Dr. Goldstein climbed onto a packed three-door bus about 3 p.m. on a recent weekday, she noticed that the middle door seemed to be used even less than the back door. At Lexington Avenue, a half-dozen passengers exited at the front, one left at the back and no one used the middle door. At Second Avenue, one passenger hopped off at the middle door while three left from the front door. At York Avenue, nearly the entire busload exited from the front and back doors; one rider exited at the middle.

“The middle is the least popular one,” Dr. Goldstein said, as she delicately gripped one of the handles on the bus with a tissue. “Most people prefer the privacy of the back or the access of the front.”

When one elderly gentleman rapped on the middle doors to get them to open, nothing happened. Soon a young woman shouted “Back door!” on his behalf, the driver released the door, and both passengers fled.

The authority recently ordered 328 buses equipped with three doors, supplementing its existing fleet of 90 three-door buses on its Select Bus Service routes. Henry Sullivan, chief maintenance officer for the authority’s Department of Buses, said that while it was too early to track what effects the extra door was having on passenger flow, he remained hopeful.

“Without having statistics, I know they’re using the middle door more,” he said about riders. “It’s easier for them to get out.”

But many riders have noticed problems with the middle door. Maria Shepherd, a regular M79 bus rider, said the extra door let in the elements more, especially during the winter. “With the three doors,” she said, “it’s freezing with the cold.”

 

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The middle door is great. I use it quite a bit exiting from Bx12 +SBS. It's not the MTA's problem that people in Manhattan don't feel the need to exit through the middle.

[mark1447]

The New York Times is late....... The 3 doors on the LFSA has been here since 2009. This artcle should of been made by then.

 

But anyways, people still use the front door even with two or 3 doors. I bet the same thing would happen if there were ever a 4th door.

The middle I use sometimes, but I still prefer the back since I like to ride the back, especially with the front always crowded.

[lilbluefoxie]

I usually sit near the front, and thusly exit out the front door

[Blitz]

I don't like the 3 door buses, especially for SBS. Yes it does speed up the loading and unloading process, but it also makes people think that they don't have to follow the rules of the bus. Because people don't have to walk past the bus operator entering through the second and third doors, they don't even make an attempt to fold baby strollers and shopping carts. They just leave them right in the middle of the aisle making an already cramped bus feel even smaller.

[Acela Express]

Many times on the B46, especially during rush-hour, when coming into an extremely busy stop, I'll force everyone who's exiting to use the back doors by putting the door notch into the 4'oclock position, then once I see everyone has complied I'll open the front doors. It keeps the flow going for my bus since 30 f-cking people wanna get off in front. Now, for the elderly, I'll usually have them wait if they "can't" use the back doors. One of my line trainers on the B49 taught me this method last year, and it worked!

[Rick44]

I think that the buses that have the 3 doors should only run on busier routes. I do understand that the buses are based out of Manhattan and The Bronx, but I think that they should only be used on the busiest routes and spread out through the city. I also understand that Manhattan crosstown routes get very busy, but is it necessary to have some of the articulated buses on those routes at all times?

 

@Acela Express: That would work in a lot of situations. I for one have not seen that method used though. However I've seen the method of having everyone exit at the front and then letting on the passengers afterwards. Of course this is used as a way to avoid farebeating through the back door. However, it gives those buisier stops a longer wait time. So, I think that it depends on the route whether one idea works over the other, or both ideas work depending on the stop.

 

On a related (but different) topic, if the MTA isn't having bus drivers fuss over farebeating, should they even use the method that I pointed out?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well I'm used to these buses because I used them a lot when I lived in Europe, but personally I can understand why folks like exiting through the front doors because they don't have to press anything to get off. The front doors open automatically and you don't have to worry about them closing on you since the B/O will see you. I actually like the new buses and like exiting through the middle door because there is less folks by that door and I can get off without people hoarding around me. These new buses have the doors that open automatically though you have to press on those handles to get them to open, but they are still MUCH better than the old ones.... Now if they can keep them some what clean....

[Grand Concourse]

Many times on the B46, especially during rush-hour, when coming into an extremely busy stop, I'll force everyone who's exiting to use the back doors by putting the door notch into the 4'oclock position, then once I see everyone has complied I'll open the front doors. It keeps the flow going for my bus since 30 f-cking people wanna get off in front. Now, for the elderly, I'll usually have them wait if they "can't" use the back doors. One of my line trainers on the B49 taught me this method last year, and it worked!

Yeah, it's a big problem where people would walk towards the front than to exit from the back. This holds up people trying to get on the bus and it leaves the back door wide open for a fare beater to enter and not even pay. It's a lose lose for everyone.

[Threxx]

I think that the buses that have the 3 doors should only run on busier routes. I do understand that the buses are based out of Manhattan and The Bronx, but I think that they should only be used on the busiest routes and spread out through the city. I also understand that Manhattan crosstown routes get very busy, but is it necessary to have some of the articulated buses on those routes at all times?

 

 

The LFSA artics are coming to SI & Brooklyn, so the is doing the right thing. They run all night because many depots' rosters are mostly artic, so it's easy to run them at night.

[Acela Express]

@Acela Express: That would work in a lot of situations. I for one have not seen that method used though. However I've seen the method of having everyone exit at the front and then letting on the passengers afterwards. Of course this is used as a way to avoid farebeating through the back door. However, it gives those buisier stops a longer wait time. So, I think that it depends on the route whether one idea works over the other, or both ideas work depending on the stop.

 

On a related (but different) topic, if the MTA isn't having bus drivers fuss over farebeating, should they even use the method that I pointed out?

 

I've never done that on my bus, unless it's I've pulled into a farside bus stop behind another bus and half my bus is in the intersection, then I'll open the front doors only as a safety percaution. I can care less about farebeaters coming through the backdoor as my passengers are exiting, but if I will keep the back doors locked if no one is getting off. There's been times where I'll put the doors fully open, and notice no one getting off, but some idiot pulls the back door and gets on there, thinking the operator didn't see him. I always keep an eye on the back doors regardless, just to keep an eye on folks, and hit F5; by starting a confrontation is asking for trouble.

Yeah, it's a big problem where people would walk towards the front than to exit from the back. This holds up people trying to get on the bus and it leaves the back door wide open for a fare beater to enter and not even pay. It's a lose lose for everyone.

 

Most of the time it's groups of teens who will try entering the back door once everybody's finished exiting. The NGs have a sensor that keeps the back door open until the last person steps off, which it'll close about 2-3 seconds later, but f-ck that, soon as the last passenger is exiting I use the emergency override button to get the back door closed quick; the same method is used on the RTS (if yellow tape is pressed), activating the auxilary interlock switch to get the back doors closed quick when the last person let's go of the doors.

[NovaLFSSeeker]

the aisle in these nova LFSA's are very narrow, like theres no room for standees

[4P3607]

wHEN f5 IS PREssed, does the farebox beep? It makes the tone as if half fare was paid right? if so, then I have seen bus drivers use that for when a whole group of students get on with a student Metrocard (full fare). Every time a kid puts their metro in, the B/O hits F5. I wonder why, technically the students are not farebeating.

 

whoops, got way off topic. thought this was the bus random thoughts thread for a sec. anyways IMO the 3 doors are the best, tho the way they designed the rear doors to open on the LFS(A)s liek how the front door opens is not as good as the doors pushing out (horrible grammar, sorry). Several times I have got hit by the opening doors on the LFS(A)s, they should have kept the doors that go out design (like on Orion 7's).

[Acela Express]

wHEN f5 IS PREssed, does the farebox beep? It makes the tone as if half fare was paid right? if so, then I have seen bus drivers use that for when a whole group of students get on with a student Metrocard (full fare). Every time a kid puts their metro in, the B/O hits F5. I wonder why, technically the students are not farebeating.

 

F5 tones are the same as employee passes being dipped, student metrocards, half-fares (disabled or senior citizen), or whenever the op presses 6 (wheelchair passenger), 7 (employee / other-free) or 8 (block tickets/uni-tickets; senior citizen fare tickets).

[Grand Concourse]

I've never done that on my bus, unless it's I've pulled into a farside bus stop behind another bus and half my bus is in the intersection, then I'll open the front doors only as a safety percaution. I can care less about farebeaters coming through the backdoor as my passengers are exiting, but if I will keep the back doors locked if no one is getting off. There's been times where I'll put the doors fully open, and notice no one getting off, but some idiot pulls the back door and gets on there, thinking the operator didn't see him. I always keep an eye on the back doors regardless, just to keep an eye on folks, and hit F5; by starting a confrontation is asking for trouble.

 

Most of the time it's groups of teens who will try entering the back door once everybody's finished exiting. The NGs have a sensor that keeps the back door open until the last person steps off, which it'll close about 2-3 seconds later, but f-ck that, soon as the last passenger is exiting I use the emergency override button to get the back door closed quick; the same method is used on the RTS (if yellow tape is pressed), activating the auxilary interlock switch to get the back doors closed quick when the last person let's go of the doors.

 

Speaking of idiot kids, some kid almost got on thru the back door of the B41 (RTS) I was on today. The doors closed just before he was able to get his hands in to pry open the doors. I dunno if he was going to fare beat, but he ended up getting on at the front. Days like that I do wish there were cops around to haul his (and others like that) sorry ass off the bus...

Even though it was 5:30pm, it seems like a high number of kids on the bus (looked like 2nd or 3rd graders). Late school tripper? My god, those damn brats won't shut the f up and one idiot was swinging off the pole like tarzan. Where are the adults?

[checkmatechamp13]

Speaking of idiot kids, some kid almost got on thru the back door of the B41 (RTS) I was on today. The doors closed just before he was able to get his hands in to pry open the doors. I dunno if he was going to fare beat, but he ended up getting on at the front. Days like that I do wish there were cops around to haul his (and others like that) sorry ass off the bus...

Even though it was 5:30pm, it seems like a high number of kids on the bus (looked like 2nd or 3rd graders). Late school tripper? My god, those damn brats won't shut the f up and one idiot was swinging off the pole like tarzan. Where are the adults?

 

 

I don't think elementary schools get trippers. At that young age, I think most of them would be on the school bus. It was probably just some after-school program they got out of and they're allowed to go home by themselves.

[Grand Concourse]

That explains it. I still would prefer an adult accompanies them. Not for their safety, but to keep them under control as those kids are a total embarrassment.

[gtNovaBusRTS9369]

Speaking of idiot kids, some kid almost got on thru the back door of the B41 (RTS) I was on today. The doors closed just before he was able to get his hands in to pry open the doors. I dunno if he was going to fare beat, but he ended up getting on at the front. Days like that I do wish there were cops around to haul his (and others like that) sorry ass off the bus...

Even though it was 5:30pm, it seems like a high number of kids on the bus (looked like 2nd or 3rd graders). Late school tripper? My god, those damn brats won't shut the f up and one idiot was swinging off the pole like tarzan. Where are the adults?

 

That explains it. I still would prefer an adult accompanies them. Not for their safety, but to keep them under control as those kids are a total embarrassment.

 

 

I don't like to bring this up but I doubt that would even work. One time a child pointed out to his/her mother the open back door of a nearby Q113. The parent of the 2 children went along with it & went for the rear door, SMFH. Remember that's it's not the children's fault but the parent's for being a negative influence or just doing a poor job at the life task at hand.

 

Back to the topic in general this's what I've feared of Artic Buses (Especially the 3 Door) on local buses. Without the firm enforcement required the fare-beating can be a b---- to keep under control. It just makes more room for the fare-beating as there's not one but two doors that's further from the B/O area, therefore allowing illegal passengers to hop on board w/o paying whenever they damn well feel like it & w/o the B/O spotting them. So unless enforcement is acted upon as 3 Door Artic Buses like the LFSA spreads throughout I just plain disagree with this.

[Acela Express]

I don't think elementary schools get trippers. At that young age, I think most of them would be on the school bus. It was probably just some after-school program they got out of and they're allowed to go home by themselves.

 

We have school runs that serve elementary, junior highs & high schools.

However, it's highly unlikely the bus Grand Concourse boarded was a school tripped at 5:30pm. I think the only B41 school trippers is a school in Bergen Beach, and the school on Nostrand Avenue & Avenue K.

[Joel Up Front]

This article proves why we can't have nice things. And how stupid people are.

[Grand Concourse]

I don't like to bring this up but I doubt that would even work. One time a child pointed out to his/her mother the open back door of a nearby Q113. The parent of the 2 children went along with it & went for the rear door, SMFH. Remember that's it's not the children's fault but the parent's for being a negative influence or just doing a poor job at the life task at hand.

 

Back to the topic in general this's what I've feared of Artic Buses (Especially the 3 Door) on local buses. Without the firm enforcement required the fare-beating can be a b---- to keep under control. It just makes more room for the fare-beating as there's not one but two doors that's further from the B/O area, therefore allowing illegal passengers to hop on board w/o paying whenever they damn well feel like it & w/o the B/O spotting them. So unless enforcement is acted upon as 3 Door Artic Buses like the LFSA spreads throughout I just plain disagree with this.

 

smh @ that parent... I see a bleak future ahead when those kids become adults.

 

I dunno, I still think of the 3 door buses as a double edge sword. On on hand, you have more doors to get off vs the 2 door arctics where if everyone is getting off at the front, the back could be wide open allowing fare beaters to sneak in. On the other is as you said, my doors to sneak on.

 

Imo, Only way to combat this problem would be having a cop in almost every bus. "pay the fare or get a fine. Commit a crime and do some time."

[Cait Sith]

The LFSA artics are coming to SI & Brooklyn, so the is doing the right thing. They run all night because many depots' rosters are mostly artic, so it's easy to run them at night.

 

Not true, they run 40fters during the after-hours with 1 or 2 artics.

[Future ENY OP]

Not true, they run 40fters during the after-hours with 1 or 2 artics.

 

With the exception of TAD/100th Street, that's unless they are running O7's on the M101/102/103 & M86 late night.

which I know are ALL ARTIC routes.

 

and MJQ with the M14/23 late night.

 

The rest of the statement I do agree with!

GH, KB, WB use 40fters late night on their artic routes.

[KeystoneRegional]

Honestly, most people do the same, I'll try to get in and out of the middle door ONLY for a while to see how it feels, but overall I board the Front and Middle Equally and the Rear Most of the Time [to get the engine sound blasting into my ear.]

[CDTA]

I only use the front door if the bus is crowded and i'm already there, or the stop has very few riders waiting.

I only use the middle door every so often just to see what it's like, and the rear door all other times.

Also, regardless of whether a bus has three doors or not, people will hop on through the rear door. One time actually, I was on the M60 in the rear stairwell because the bus was packed and my stop was next, and this guy hops on through the back. Then a cop sitting in the front of the bus, said "Hey, you didn't pay your fare". The farebeater was like "Yes I did, you just didn't see it." and then the cop stood up and headed back there and the farebeater darted off of the bus.