Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Union Tpke]

 

Probably doing that cause the will be covering the areas the doesn't.

 

But the won't come until phase 3 and who knows when that will come.

[Far Rock Depot]

Its for future use. Like when the 160s were programmed for the V to Metropolitan Ave. All subject to change of course, as we saw with the V becoming the M.

[lupojohn]

Its for future use. Like when the 160s were programmed for the V to Metropolitan Ave. All subject to change of course, as we saw with the V becoming the M.

The became the ? The already existed, unless you mean they re-routed it when the went out of service.

[Guest Lance]

Wow! Split service? I thought 2 Avenue needed more service, not to have half the service.

The line isn't even opened yet. And since when have the automated announcements dictated actual service patterns? The transfers announcements are based on today's services (and as if the 2nd Avenue is actually opened) and the one in question is really for the Q-line's short turns at 57 St or Times Sq. When the 2nd Avenue line does open in 2018 (or whenever) and the services are solidified, the announcements will reflect that.

 

Its for future use. Like when the 160s were programmed for the V to Metropolitan Ave. All subject to change of course, as we saw with the V becoming the M.

Ding ding ding.

[bobtehpanda]

Probably doing that cause the will be covering the areas the doesn't.

 

Just saying, the is only going to happen once Phase III starts, which probably isn't happening until the 2030s at the earliest (they don't even have an official report on Phase II yet, and Phase I took forever to plan and start.)

[Vistausss]

The line isn't even opened yet. And since when have the automated announcements dictated actual service patterns? The transfers announcements are based on today's services (and as if the 2nd Avenue is actually opened) and the one in question is really for the Q-line's short turns at 57 St or Times Sq. When the 2nd Avenue line does open in 2018 (or whenever) and the services are solidified, the announcements will reflect that.

 

Ding ding ding.

 

Yeah, like MrRailfan says in the description box below the video:

"This is the current rush hour announcement program for the soon to be 2nd avenue subway. There is another program for 96 st - 2nd avenue as well. 

The Exterior signs say Q | East Side - 72 St | Broadway Exp | Brighton LCL"

Edited May 20, 2013 by Vistausss

[Grand Concourse]

Wow! Split service? I thought 2 Avenue needed more service, not to have half the service.

for just 3 stops, i still don't see why the Q needs to send all the trains up 2nd av. I think they would be better off sending all Qs to astoria and send the N up 2nd av. Q could probably handle astoria alone better than the N and maybe select Q (if they were to do that).

[Guest MTA Bus]

The can not handle the Astoria Line by itself during the week. Also, nobody wants the to leave Astoria.

[RollOver]

SMH.

 

According to the official timetable, the already runs at six to eight minute headways. Same with the . Astoria is already getting the amount of service they require - anything less than five minute waiting time.....

 

I honestly don't see how someone can refute that neither the or could handle Astoria on their own when the said trains DO run VERY frequently at rush hour with their five or six to eight minute headway.....Astoria residents already have their five minute waiting time during the midday and evening with the combined frequency of the and (two of which are scheduled to run at ten minute headways during the midday and evening).

 

So if such frequency is done at rush hour, same can be done on midday and evening if just one service route.....

Edited May 21, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[Art Vandelay]

The N and Q combined adequately serve Astoria. The N and Q have roughly the same headways, so it really does not matter which is sent up 2nd Avenue. When the Q is sent up 2nd Avenue, all ~10 peak trains per hour of it will be needed on 2nd Avenue. The Astoria line will still need ~20 trains per hour during the peak period. Will the N be doubled? No. at ~30 trains per hour, the express tracks would be overserved, while at under 10 trains per hour the local tracks would be severely underserved. Dekalb couldn't handle ~30 TPH coming in on the H tracks. 

 

[itmaybeokay]

The N and Q combined adequately serve Astoria. The N and Q have roughly the same headways, so it really does not matter which is sent up 2nd Avenue. When the Q is sent up 2nd Avenue, all ~10 peak trains per hour of it will be needed on 2nd Avenue. The Astoria line will still need ~20 trains per hour during the peak period. Will the N be doubled? No. at ~30 trains per hour, the express tracks would be overserved, while at under 10 trains per hour the local tracks would be severely underserved. Dekalb couldn't handle ~30 TPH coming in on the H tracks. 

 

I mean this has been discussed to death - but the obvious solution would be to reactivate the to supplement the in Astoria, with it turning at Whitehall. 

[Union Tpke]

With a reactivated , they should short turn more trains at Whitehall St. Do you think they should reactivate the <R> service to Chambers?

How about reconnecting the Nassau tracks to the Manhattan Bridge with a new express service over the Sea Beach Line should it be renovated.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Union Tpke

[Art Vandelay]

With a reactivated W there would be no room to turn any R trains at Whitehall. I don't see why R to Chambers would be useful with such a plan- Broadway has by far more demand for service, if any more R trains were to run, they would run up Broadway. Connecting the Nassau line to the bridge would also be relatively useless. The Nassau line from Chambers on south has substantially less demand than the Broadway line from Canal north. Dekalb likely constrains Broadway-Bridge express service as it is, none of that capacity can be afforded to Nassau services. Why would a sea beach express be of any use? It skips all the stops!

[Vistausss]

Well, in that case they should leave the as is and reactivate the like it used to be.

[itmaybeokay]

Well, in that case they should leave the as is and reactivate the like it used to be.

 

The has it's own issues, and really alterations of it wouldn't help the situation on the BMT Astoria line. They're going to need to increase service on there after dropping the from the line. Maybe they won't reinstate the W, and will instead just short turn a bunch of N trains at Whitehall so they don't have to change up signage. That might prove more confusing for passengers. Either way, I think it's a no-brainer that they're going to put something along the W's old service pattern, be it called by that name or another. 

[Roadcruiser1]

Again at best if the were to come back it did run the way it used to, but hopefully there did be rush hour trains running to Bay Parkway to make up for the loss of the brown . That is all that is needed. There is very little demand for a Chambers Street to Bay Parkway line which was why the brown was always empty, it also proves that such a service isn't needed.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Roadcruiser1

[RollOver]

Again, the isn't needed in Brooklyn. Nobody on the West End or Sea Beach lines wants to get on a fully local train that goes through the Montague Street Tunnel to Lower/Midtown Manhattan. Trains would be just as empty as the old brown . Even Lance said it at best last year in around mid-late June 2012.

Edited May 24, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[Metro CSW]

Again, the isn't needed in Brooklyn. Nobody on the West End or Sea Beach lines wants to get on a fully local train that goes through the Montague Street Tunnel to Lower/Midtown Manhattan. Trains would be just as empty as the old brown . Even Lance said it at best last year in around mid-late June 2012.

Agreeable but I was thinking if the were to go to Brooklyn, whether it's West End or Sea Beach.... most passengers from those areas wont have to transfer to/from the IRT or to/from Lower Manhattan during the peak hours. (in which the transfer point is Barclays Center) Too bad it's not a big demand now because the is heavily used during those times and most of those passengers are from those areas I mentioned before. Just my look on it.

[CenSin]

Nobody on the West End or Sea Beach lines wants to get on a fully local train that goes through the Montague Street Tunnel to Lower/Midtown Manhattan.

I think students of Brooklyn Tech would go ahead and use it. Currently, they all pile on the and until Pacific Street where they run across the platform for the (if it's there). Put the on the Sea Beach or West End lines. The allure of having a seat all the way up to DeKalb Avenue or Jay Street should bring relief to some morning commuters who need to get to Manhattan. It's only 4-6 more stops for them anyway. This will be the most helpful use of the yet:

• from Kings Highway or Bay Parkway to Astoria (AM rush)
• from Astoria to Kings Highway or Bay Parkway (PM rush)

[RookiePhenom]

 

This will be the most helpful use of the yet:

• from Kings Highway or Bay Parkway to Astoria (AM rush)
• from Astoria to Kings Highway or Bay Parkway (PM rush)

 

 

So do those trains come back as (N)'s or (Q)'s on the reverse?

[koolmazin]

The could really use a boost on 4th ave local so a there won't be too bad of an idea would it?

[CenSin]

So do those trains come back as (N)'s or (Q)'s on the reverse?

They're R160… they can reverse as anything. They would've had to take trains from the Coney Island yard anyway, so an in-service or out-of-service train going through Sea Beach/West End would be about the same anyway.

[Grand Concourse]

Agreeable but I was thinking if the were to go to Brooklyn, whether it's West End or Sea Beach.... most passengers from those areas wont have to transfer to/from the IRT or to/from Lower Manhattan during the peak hours. (in which the transfer point is Barclays Center) Too bad it's not a big demand now because the is heavily used during those times and most of those passengers are from those areas I mentioned before. Just my look on it.

Well if they bring back the W, I guess they should have it stop at Whitehall, but have like 3 select trains run to/from Brooklyn. I think the furthest the W needs to go is 9th av and turn back since it's really 4th av that could use the extra local service to help the R. I think the W is likely needed since it'd be simpler to have that than to make people wonder if the N is going to go to Brooklyn or stop in Manhattan.

[Metro CSW]

Well if they bring back the W, I guess they should have it stop at Whitehall, but have like 3 select trains run to/from Brooklyn. I think the furthest the W needs to go is 9th av and turn back since it's really 4th av that could use the extra local service to help the R. I think the W is likely needed since it'd be simpler to have that than to make people wonder if the N is going to go to Brooklyn or stop in Manhattan.

Good point, Fourth Avenue has always been a priority because of the heighten ridership as of prior years. Some solid headways would do it some justice assisting the in Lower Manhattan, maybe even lighten the a bit as well.

[GojiMet86]

http://new.mta.info/final-contract-awarded-second-avenue-subway
 

Final Contract Awarded for Second Avenue Subway
June 13th, 2013

The future 86th Street Station
 
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority today announced that it has awarded a contract for the station finishes, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, ancillary buildings and entrances for the 86^th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway. The contract, valued at $208,376,000 was awarded to the 86^th Street Constructors Joint Venture, a joint venture of Schiavone Construction Co. LLC and John P. Picone, Incorporated. This is the tenth and final contract to be awarded for Phase 1. 
“We’ve reached the final mile marker for this legendary project and can now see the finish line for Phase 1 of the Second Avenue Subway.  This is a great milestone for the MTA and for all New Yorkers,” said Michael Horodniceanu, President of MTA Capital Construction.  
The $4.45 billion project to extend the  Line along Second Avenue is the largest expansion of the subway system in generations.  The subway line will have new stations at 72^nd Street, 86^th Street and 96^th Street, and is expected to open for service in December 2016.