R10 2952 Posted December 30, 2020 Share #1876 Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) Someone in another thread brought something up about service on Lower Montauk between Jamaica and Long Island City; I do vaguely remember LIRR stops at Fresh Pond and Glendale, but this was the tail end of service in the late '90s when it was down to 2 peak-direction runs a day. Does anyone remember when exactly they cut it down to 2 trips? I assume it must've happened before 1990-91. @Trainmaster5 any recollection of the Lower Montauk local trains? Edited December 30, 2020 by R10 2952 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted December 30, 2020 Share #1877 Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, R10 2952 said: Someone in another thread brought something up about service on Lower Montauk between Jamaica and Long Island City; I do vaguely remember LIRR stops at Fresh Pond and Glendale, but this was the tail end of service in the late '90s when it was down to 2 peak-direction runs a day. Does anyone remember when exactly they cut it down to 2 trips? I assume it must've happened before 1990-91. @Trainmaster5 any recollection of the Lower Montauk local trains? From the looks of the "stations" along Lower Montauk in 1998, I think service was down to two trips WAYYYYYY before 1990's. Fresh Pond is connected by a sketchy passageway to a metal shack. Glendale, Haberman, and Pennys Bridge, you board at the nearest grade crossing. Richmond Hill actually had a station. In fact here is the sign for Fresh Pond Customers informing the stations closure still there in 2012, but is gone today according to Google Map. That passageway goes to that staircase, which is the "station" https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7126852,-73.8995345,3a,34.5y,185.17h,84.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siFVKWSRb3d9AuT6lgv_bgQ!2e0!5s20120401T000000!7i13312!8i6656 Heres Glendale from 2014. the sign apparently is gone today. You can imagine where the "platform" is https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7065095,-73.8784238,3a,52.4y,359.08h,85.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szDhV9oVTKzoa6SqEtzHbzg!2e0!5s20140901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en Edited December 30, 2020 by Mtatransit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted December 30, 2020 Share #1878 Posted December 30, 2020 11 hours ago, R10 2952 said: Someone in another thread brought something up about service on Lower Montauk between Jamaica and Long Island City; I do vaguely remember LIRR stops at Fresh Pond and Glendale, but this was the tail end of service in the late '90s when it was down to 2 peak-direction runs a day. Does anyone remember when exactly they cut it down to 2 trips? I assume it must've happened before 1990-91. @Trainmaster5 any recollection of the Lower Montauk local trains? Here is this from a great website with posts about LIRR service: https://derekstadler.wordpress.com/portfolio-2/collections-photography/maspeth-from-small-dutch-community-to-part-of-the-great-metropolis-final/poignant-memories-of-another-day-history-of-rail-service-to-richmond-hill-and-the-former-communities-of-clarenceville-and-morris-park/ Quote In May 1974 a new timetable structure was established system-wide. One of the Long Island City-bound trains was cut on the Montauk Branch leaving only a single round-trip from and to Richmond Hill. Westbound train number 507 from Oyster Bay stopped in Richmond Hill at 8:18 a.m. and eastbound train number 562 to Oyster Bay stopped at 5:45 p.m. The schedule persisted for over two decades with only slight changes in time. By 1989 the morning train originated from Patchogue (first designated as train number 41 but later renumbered 2761). The last day of service was March 13, 1998. Train number 2761 from Patchogue stopped at 8:21 a.m. and train number 562 to Oyster Bay stopped at 5:50 p.m. The east end entrance was now closed. No doubt in lieu of vandalism, both staircases were removed in the early-2000s.[57] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted December 30, 2020 Share #1879 Posted December 30, 2020 This was the abandoned Penny Bridge in 2015: IMG_9312 by GojiMet86, on Flickr And back in 1962: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted December 31, 2020 Share #1880 Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) To add on, looking at my official guide of railway from June 1963 it shows two peak period trains along Lower Montauk. Back then, all trains serving HPA do not serve LIC, only Lower Montauk trains serve LIC. The trains are as follows Train 507- Lv Jamaica at 7:05AM Richmond Hill- 7:11AM Glendale- 7:16AM Fresh Pond- 7:20AM Haberman- 7:23AM Penny Br- 7:26AM LIC- 7:33AM Train 521- Lv Jamaica at 8:11AM Richmond Hill- 8:15AM Glendale- 8:20AM Fresh Pond- 8:24AM Haberman- 8:26AM Penny Br- 8:29AM LIC- 8:35AM Looking at my timetable from 1990, this train runs express and makes no stops between Jamaica and LIC In the afternoon Train 552 LIC- 4:58PM Penny Br- 5:04PM Haberman- 5:06PM Fresh Pond- 5:11PM Jamaica- 5:20PM This train skips Glendale and Richmond Hill. (This service pattern continued in the 1990) Train 554 LIC- 5:25PM Penny Br- 5:31PM Haberman- 5:33PM Fresh Pond- 5:38PM Glendale- 5:41PM Richmond Hill- 5:45PM Jamaica- 5:51PM Edited December 31, 2020 by Mtatransit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 31, 2020 Share #1881 Posted December 31, 2020 16 hours ago, R10 2952 said: Someone in another thread brought something up about service on Lower Montauk between Jamaica and Long Island City; I do vaguely remember LIRR stops at Fresh Pond and Glendale, but this was the tail end of service in the late '90s when it was down to 2 peak-direction runs a day. Does anyone remember when exactly they cut it down to 2 trips? I assume it must've happened before 1990-91. @Trainmaster5 any recollection of the Lower Montauk local trains? Being a Brooklyn guy I never had the chance to ride the Lower Montauk. The western end, LIC, was where the Rentar company operated a free driving school adjacent to the yard. I trained for and got my Class 3 and Class 1 driver's licenses in that area. Practice and road tests were given all around the area. All I can recall were grade crossings and grave yards in the area along with a poultry operation with live chickens next to the train tracks. IIRC the old B61 bus from Brooklyn used to cross the Pulaski Bridge and terminate in the area, too. It was a manufacturing industrial area back then. The Richmond Hill station, along with the Ozone Park station were places I wish I'd explored back in the day. My memories. Carry on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subway fanatic Posted January 1, 2021 Share #1882 Posted January 1, 2021 Why do commuter rail service run on opposite tracks like they do in England sometimes? I am asking why do trains do reverse operation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 1, 2021 Share #1883 Posted January 1, 2021 5 hours ago, Subway fanatic said: Why do commuter rail service run on opposite tracks like they do in England sometimes? I am asking why do trains do reverse operation Subway trains can do so as well (though usually it's due to track work that results in single-tracking). It can be trackwork, or sometimes they use the opposite direction track as an express track (e.g. LIRR Main Line). As for why the commuter railroads tend to use that practice more often, it might have something to do with FRA regulations vs. FTA regulations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted January 1, 2021 Share #1884 Posted January 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Subway fanatic said: Why do commuter rail service run on opposite tracks like they do in England sometimes? I am asking why do trains do reverse operation To be honest, the only reason why is I believe they can. It may be the signals. I think back in the 80s they had a study to convert QBL Express so the express track directions could be switched, so theoricqally they could run more express trains. But there really isn't any opportunity to run the subways in reverse operations under normal conditions anyways. The headways are too small, with way too many train movements and stops. Its probably why you rarely see it along the Babylon Line 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 1, 2021 Share #1885 Posted January 1, 2021 50 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said: Subway trains can do so as well (though usually it's due to track work that results in single-tracking). It can be trackwork, or sometimes they use the opposite direction track as an express track (e.g. LIRR Main Line). As for why the commuter railroads tend to use that practice more often, it might have something to do with FRA regulations vs. FTA regulations. I doubt it's down to mere FRA regulations. Service in the peak direction typically results in what would ordinarily be wrong-railing (for trains skipping stations), and in cases like Central Islip (back when there was only one main track east of Farmingdale instead of east of Ronkonkoma), it's likely to happen if the station house is attached to the track opposite of the expected one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 2, 2021 Share #1886 Posted January 2, 2021 16 hours ago, Lex said: I doubt it's down to mere FRA regulations. Service in the peak direction typically results in what would ordinarily be wrong-railing (for trains skipping stations), and in cases like Central Islip (back when there was only one main track east of Farmingdale instead of east of Ronkonkoma), it's likely to happen if the station house is attached to the track opposite of the expected one. The main issue with 3+1 on QBL is that once all those extra trains from the third track get to their destinations, how are they supposed to turn around on the single track? The reason the LIRR can do this is because West Side Yard is conveniently right next to Penn Station. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 2, 2021 Share #1887 Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said: The main issue with 3+1 on QBL is that once all those extra trains from the third track get to their destinations, how are they supposed to turn around on the single track? The reason the LIRR can do this is because West Side Yard is conveniently right next to Penn Station. Not sure I follow... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 2, 2021 Share #1888 Posted January 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Lex said: Not sure I follow... What goes in must come out, eventually, somehow. West Side Yard is a conveniently large outlet right next to Penn Station that the extra trains from the third tunnel can go to, instead of turning right back around and trying to squeeze into the lone eastbound tunnel during AM peak. During the PM they just go back to their yards in the outer reaches of the system. The subway is not unidirectional. Actually doing 3+1 on QBL (or any other line) would require the extra trains to go somewhere after arriving in Midtown, but there is no path for extra trains to a yard that they can just sit in during the rush hours, and there isn't really a low-use reverse-peak pathway out of Manhattan either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 2, 2021 Share #1889 Posted January 2, 2021 41 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: What goes in must come out, eventually, somehow. West Side Yard is a conveniently large outlet right next to Penn Station that the extra trains from the third tunnel can go to, instead of turning right back around and trying to squeeze into the lone eastbound tunnel during AM peak. During the PM they just go back to their yards in the outer reaches of the system. The subway is not unidirectional. Actually doing 3+1 on QBL (or any other line) would require the extra trains to go somewhere after arriving in Midtown, but there is no path for extra trains to a yard that they can just sit in during the rush hours, and there isn't really a low-use reverse-peak pathway out of Manhattan either. That's all well and good, but I think we're (mostly) talking about two different things, especially since someone else brought up any part of the subway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 2, 2021 Share #1890 Posted January 2, 2021 On 1/1/2021 at 3:58 AM, Subway fanatic said: Why do commuter rail service run on opposite tracks like they do in England sometimes? I am asking why do trains do reverse operation Your question to me is ambiguous & your attempt at a clarification makes matters worse... Just what do you mean by "reverse operation" exactly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 3, 2021 Share #1891 Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Lex said: That's all well and good, but I think we're (mostly) talking about two different things, especially since someone else brought up any part of the subway. Are we? Several people, including yourself, have brought up the wrong-railing on the Main Line. On 1/1/2021 at 6:58 AM, checkmatechamp13 said: or sometimes they use the opposite direction track as an express track (e.g. LIRR Main Line) On 1/1/2021 at 8:01 AM, Mtatransit said: I think back in the 80s they had a study to convert QBL Express so the express track directions could be switched, so theoricqally they could run more express trains. On 1/1/2021 at 8:33 AM, Lex said: Service in the peak direction typically results in what would ordinarily be wrong-railing (for trains skipping stations) As an addendum, it's worth noting that to support all the extra trains they run during peak hours, the current eastbound schedule to Ronkonkoma looks like 4:37 arrival 6:29 arrival 7:26 arrival 8:59 arrival Huntington's schedule looks like: 4:11 arrival 6:01 arrival (transfer from Penn train) 6:58 arrival 9:13 arrival You couldn't operate a subway with >90 minute headways in the reverse peak. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 3, 2021 Share #1892 Posted January 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: Are we? Several people, including yourself, have brought up the wrong-railing on the Main Line. I was getting at the actual peak express patterns (Hicksville to Jamaica and Jamaica to Penn) and the logistics for individual stations. The one who alluded to the logistics of running the peak express service was @Mtatransit. To be honest, it feels more like we're talking past each other on this one... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted January 3, 2021 Share #1893 Posted January 3, 2021 Checked out the new LIRR/Amtrak concourse at Penn today, its awesome. Only complaint is when I wish they had regular fast food restaurants rather than high end eateries... they had a list of all the restaurants that will be in the food hall when it opens later on. TBH, I wish they tore down MSG, tear down the post office and build a new MSG there, and build a modern looking Penn Station above ground, also in this case NJT would have an nice new station too. Also checked out one Vanderbilt plaza concourse, only a see through fence its blocking the LIRR ESA station from the newly opened concourse. You can't see the platform level, just a hallway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 3, 2021 Share #1894 Posted January 3, 2021 48 minutes ago, B35 via Church said: Your question to me is ambiguous & your attempt at a clarification makes matters worse... Just what do you mean by "reverse operation" exactly? Meaning trains running eastbound on the westbound track or vice versa. He's asking why is it more common to see it on commuter rail lines than subway lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 3, 2021 Share #1895 Posted January 3, 2021 56 minutes ago, trainfan22 said: Checked out the new LIRR/Amtrak concourse at Penn today, its awesome. Only complaint is when I wish they had regular fast food restaurants rather than high end eateries... they had a list of all the restaurants that will be in the food hall when it opens later on. TBH, I wish they tore down MSG, tear down the post office and build a new MSG there, and build a modern looking Penn Station above ground, also in this case NJT would have an nice new station too. That would probably be great, if our governor hadn't sat idly by while Bloomberg and Quinn couldn't figure out where to relocate MSG to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 3, 2021 Share #1896 Posted January 3, 2021 49 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said: Meaning trains running eastbound on the westbound track or vice versa. He's asking why is it more common to see it on commuter rail lines than subway lines. Of course you're going to see/read this, but I'm aiming this message at him through you. ---------------------------------------- Reverse operation of a train means to operate the train backwards (i.e., having the train travel in the opposite direction of which the t/o's facing).... Running trains in service on the wrong track would've been more accurate..... Why is it more common on commuter rails over subway lines? Quite frankly because subways typically run on higher frequencies over shorter stop distances (regardless of direction of travel) & the commuter rail lines (that it's occurring on) suffers from severe line capacity issues.... It's why the LIRR Main Line is being brought up as the prime example here..... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10 2952 Posted January 4, 2021 Share #1897 Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) On 12/30/2020 at 1:41 PM, Union Tpke said: Here is this from a great website with posts about LIRR service: https://derekstadler.wordpress.com/portfolio-2/collections-photography/maspeth-from-small-dutch-community-to-part-of-the-great-metropolis-final/poignant-memories-of-another-day-history-of-rail-service-to-richmond-hill-and-the-former-communities-of-clarenceville-and-morris-park/ On 12/30/2020 at 4:36 PM, Mtatransit said: To add on, looking at my official guide of railway from June 1963 it shows two peak period trains along Lower Montauk. Back then, all trains serving HPA do not serve LIC, only Lower Montauk trains serve LIC. The trains are as follows Train 507- Lv Jamaica at 7:05AM Richmond Hill- 7:11AM Glendale- 7:16AM Fresh Pond- 7:20AM Haberman- 7:23AM Penny Br- 7:26AM LIC- 7:33AM Train 521- Lv Jamaica at 8:11AM Richmond Hill- 8:15AM Glendale- 8:20AM Fresh Pond- 8:24AM Haberman- 8:26AM Penny Br- 8:29AM LIC- 8:35AM Looking at my timetable from 1990, this train runs express and makes no stops between Jamaica and LIC In the afternoon Train 552 LIC- 4:58PM Penny Br- 5:04PM Haberman- 5:06PM Fresh Pond- 5:11PM Jamaica- 5:20PM This train skips Glendale and Richmond Hill. (This service pattern continued in the 1990) Train 554 LIC- 5:25PM Penny Br- 5:31PM Haberman- 5:33PM Fresh Pond- 5:38PM Glendale- 5:41PM Richmond Hill- 5:45PM Jamaica- 5:51PM Wow, so the service had been hanging by a thread already since the PRR era. Whatever folks did ride that once-daily round trip must've either been real dedicated or real close to the stations. Edited January 4, 2021 by R10 2952 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted January 8, 2021 Share #1898 Posted January 8, 2021 https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/mta-worker-suspended-after-calling-in-sick-to-attend-capitol-riot/ Quote MTA worker suspended after calling out sick to attend Capitol riot By David MeyerJanuary 8, 2021 | 3:57pm | Updated A Metro-North worker called out sick to be part of the mob that stormed the US Capitol — and he has been suspended amid an FBI investigation into his role, The Post has learned. Will Pepe, a laborer at Metro-North’s Brewster rail yard, is under investigation for participating in the mob that briefly halted Congress as it was certifying the election of President-elect Joe Biden, the MTA confirmed. Pepe, 31, of Beacon, N.Y., called out sick Wednesday to attend the event, an MTA source said. He has been suspended without pay as the agency seeks to fire him. “Effective immediately this individual has been suspended from Metro-North without pay and will be disciplined in accordance with their collective bargaining agreement pending an investigation,” MTA spokesman Ken Lovett said in a statement. “This alleged conduct is abhorrent and goes against the values of Metro-North, New York and the nation.” The seven-year MTA employee did not return a call for comment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 8, 2021 Share #1899 Posted January 8, 2021 48 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said: https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/mta-worker-suspended-after-calling-in-sick-to-attend-capitol-riot/ And he called out sick? 😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣 I have zero sympathy for him. May his removal be swift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted January 8, 2021 Share #1900 Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lex said: And he called out sick? 😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣 I have zero sympathy for him. May his removal be swift. Knowing LIRR laborers, i figured he would have marked it down as overtime like they normally do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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