Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[bobtehpanda]

Q36 - would only run up to the Grand Central Parkway. There, the Q36 would turn right, run via the North Shore Towers, turn right on Lakeville Road, operate via LIJ, and then turn right at 77 Avenue and left at 270 Street to Union Turnpike, which would be its terminus. Return to Jamaica via Union Turnpike and Lakeville Road Since the Q36 approaches LIJ from the north, the Q46 turnaround is not available.

Q12 - would be extended through Deepdale and Douglaston, operating via Little Neck Parkway to 260 Street...then via Glen Oaks and Union Turnpike to the Q46 terminus.

 

This is sort of the worst of both worlds - you can either have a Q12 extension all the way down to Jamaica Av (to provide Flushing access to Little Neck, Glen Oaks, Floral Park, etc.), or Q36 to Northern so that Northern Blvd riders can have access to Jamaica.

 

With your plan, the central part of Little Neck Parkway has way too much service, nobody gets new service to Jamaica (because everyone in those neighborhoods already has Jamaica access),and the Q12 falls just short of the most possible new SBS route in Queens (Q43 was on the Phase II shortlist, along with the M60 and Bx41, but I'm not entirely sure if DOT has actually done anything since then...)

Edited July 21, 2013 by bobtehpanda

[B35 via Church]

Nobody is gonna take the Q36 to the north shore towers. Of those people that use public transportation, they take the QM6.

No NST patron is gonna wanna walk from along Marcus av to the actual towers' (or vice versa) for a local bus towards QV, Jamaica, etc.... This is one reason why the QM6 works for them (because it goes inside NST property).... It's not one of these communities that wants local bus service anyway (see reply at the end of the post)

 

From what end of the route do Q36 buses deadhead?

Lol at this.... You mean you didn't know, yet the basis of your suggestion was to reduce deadhead distance for the route?

 

 

The aim is to end the route at LIJ, which is a major destination. NST is just for network coverage purposes.

With your plan, the central part of Little Neck Parkway has way too much service, nobody gets new service to Jamaica (because everyone in those neighborhoods already has Jamaica access),and the Q12 falls just short of the most possible new SBS route in Queens (Q43 was on the Phase II shortlist, along with the M60 and Bx41, but I'm not entirely sure if DOT has actually done anything since then...)

I remember when he had Q110's doing the same thing he's suggesting Q36's do here; this whole running buses up LNP, across Marcus, and down Lakeville towards NSLIJ ....

 

Albeit not for too long a period, I used to work at NSLIJ.... folks would take Q46's to 271st & walk up the 2 blocks & enter the hospital from the 76th av side (to avoid crossing lakeville rd., if you were to take the Q46 to the last stop).... With his Q36 suggestion, you would likely get folks disembarking @ LNP/74th & walking to the hospital.... The loop around NST would be a bit of a waste (especially going); you wouldn't get any pickups or dropoffs @ NST itself.... I mean, If he really wanted to help those folks going to the hospital, he would have 36's turning off LNP @ union tpke & then paralleling the Q46 from there.....

Edited July 21, 2013 by B35 via Church

[bobtehpanda]

No NST patron is gonna wanna walk from along Marcus av to the actual towers' (or vice versa) for a local bus towards QV, Jamaica, etc.... This is one reason why the QM6 works for them (because it goes inside NST property).... It's not one of these communities that wants local bus service anyway (see reply at the end of the post)

 

Lol at this.... You mean you didn't know, yet the basis of your suggestion was to reduce deadhead distance for the route?

 

 

I remember when he had Q110's doing the same thing he's suggesting Q36's do here; this whole running buses up LNP, across Marcus, and down Lakeville towards NSLIJ ....

 

Albeit not for too long a period, I used to work at NSLIJ.... folks would take Q46's to 271st & walk up the 2 blocks & enter the hospital from the 76th av side (to avoid crossing lakeville rd., if you were to take the Q46 to the last stop).... With his Q36 suggestion, you would likely get folks disembarking @ LNP/74th & walking to the hospital.... The loop around NST would be a bit of a waste (especially going); you wouldn't get any pickups or dropoffs @ NST itself.... I mean, If he really wanted to help those folks going to the hospital, he would have 36's turning off LNP @ union tpke & then paralleling the Q46 from there.....

 

To add onto everything that's been said, Marcus is also where the eastbound GCP/NSP has its exit/entrance lanes... so no one would attempt to get off/on there.

 

Yes, NSLIJ is a hub, but if we were to send another east-west route there (and it may not be necessary, given the empty seats that the 46 runs there have sometimes), the 36 is a route I decidedly wouldn't send there. It's too slow - the local running on Hillside guarantees that. At least with the 46 LTD it's speedy enough such that hospital users could conceivably use it if they needed to make an appointment or something. If anything, extend the 43 through Langdale (or Lakeville) to the 46 terminus, if you need riders south of Union to go to the hospital.

[qjtransitmaster]

Q37 reroute idea in Ozone Park

 

The reason for this proposal is because 114 Street is way too narrow for two-way traffic. In addition, the route should be straightened through Ozone Park. I would run the Q37 like this through Ozone Park.

 

To 150 Avenue---via Rockaway Boulevard, right on 114 Street, left on 135 Avenue, and continue on 135 Avenue.

To Kew Gardens---via 135 Avenue, no right turn onto Lefferts Boulevard. Instead, continue on 135 Avenue to 114 Place, right on 114 Place, left on Rockaway Boulevard, and regular.

 

Q9 (to expand the service footprint). Instead of serving Liberty Avenue, the Q9 would instead continue on Sutphin Boulevard to Linden Boulevard. Right at Linden Boulevard, west to 130 Street, and south on 130 Street to South Conduit Avenue to a terminus with the Q37. This would more evenly serve South Ozone Park. as well as serve some customers who had previously used the Q41 prior to its rerouting onto 109 Avenue. Linden Boulevard would also see a partial restoration of local service lost when the Q89 was cut.

 

Q40: northbound---reroute service from Lakewood Avenue to 109 Avenue to avoid bidirectional bus traffic on a narrow street.

 

Service on Little Neck Parkway---break up through service into 2 parts...the aim would be to reduce deadhead dstance on the Q36 since the Q12 runs on and runs off from Main Street.

 

Q36 - would only run up to the Grand Central Parkway. There, the Q36 would turn right, run via the North Shore Towers, turn right on Lakeville Road, operate via LIJ, and then turn right at 77 Avenue and left at 270 Street to Union Turnpike, which would be its terminus. Return to Jamaica via Union Turnpike and Lakeville Road Since the Q36 approaches LIJ from the north, the Q46 turnaround is not available.

Q12 - would be extended through Deepdale and Douglaston, operating via Little Neck Parkway to 260 Street...then via Glen Oaks and Union Turnpike to the Q46 terminus.

Want to end the deadhead extend some Q46 trips to queens village via cross island parkway /GCP it is based out of QV anyway yes after it's current terminal. Q46 deadheads via cross island anyway.

[Q90]

Q37 reroute idea in Ozone Park

 

The reason for this proposal is because 114 Street is way too narrow for two-way traffic. In addition, the route should be straightened through Ozone Park. I would run the Q37 like this through Ozone Park.

 

To 150 Avenue---via Rockaway Boulevard, right on 114 Street, left on 135 Avenue, and continue on 135 Avenue.

To Kew Gardens---via 135 Avenue, no right turn onto Lefferts Boulevard. Instead, continue on 135 Avenue to 114 Place, right on 114 Place, left on Rockaway Boulevard, and regular.

 

Q9 (to expand the service footprint). Instead of serving Liberty Avenue, the Q9 would instead continue on Sutphin Boulevard to Linden Boulevard. Right at Linden Boulevard, west to 130 Street, and south on 130 Street to South Conduit Avenue to a terminus with the Q37. This would more evenly serve South Ozone Park. as well as serve some customers who had previously used the Q41 prior to its rerouting onto 109 Avenue. Linden Boulevard would also see a partial restoration of local service lost when the Q89 was cut.

 

Q40: northbound---reroute service from Lakewood Avenue to 109 Avenue to avoid bidirectional bus traffic on a narrow street.

 

Service on Little Neck Parkway---break up through service into 2 parts...the aim would be to reduce deadhead dstance on the Q36 since the Q12 runs on and runs off from Main Street.

 

Q36 - would only run up to the Grand Central Parkway. There, the Q36 would turn right, run via the North Shore Towers, turn right on Lakeville Road, operate via LIJ, and then turn right at 77 Avenue and left at 270 Street to Union Turnpike, which would be its terminus. Return to Jamaica via Union Turnpike and Lakeville Road Since the Q36 approaches LIJ from the north, the Q46 turnaround is not available.

Q12 - would be extended through Deepdale and Douglaston, operating via Little Neck Parkway to 260 Street...then via Glen Oaks and Union Turnpike to the Q46 terminus.

 

Q9: No, it's a better idea to send it to JFK Airport (like I posted at least weeks ago) via Wan Wyck Service lane since a lot of Van Wyck residents use the bus to JFK, it would be a good option for them. Also it would be a cheaper alternative to the airtrain. No way I'm paying $5 for that shitty train when I could use a bus that's half the price ! People who agree with that would use it from Jamaica and also it would take off passengers on the Q3s who use it to JFK from Jamaica since those buses are crowded. Or at least send it to Lefferts Airtrain (like B35 via Church said) if anything. Also your Q9 duplicates the Q6 a little too much.

 

Q12/Q36: Leave the Q12 alone, it doesn't need to be tampered with and the only thing I would suggest for the Q36 is to run it daily along Little Neck Parkway.

 

Q37: A better idea is to extend the Q37 to JFK Airport via the local Q10's routing on 130 Street. Q10s are packed and since the Q37 is only a few blocks away from it on 111 Street, It would be a good alternative. Especially since a lot of people on 111 Street walk to Lefferts to catch the Q10 to JFK. Also in this proposal Q10 service along 130 Street is eliminated and replaced by Q37 (all Q10 locals and limiteds will continue down Lefferts Boulevard south of Rockaway Boulevard)

 

Q40: A big NO. Q40 is a quick route and tampering with it would just make it unreliable. I'm not gonna lie but before I joined this forum, I considered rerouting the Q40 onto 143 Street since 142 Street was narrow but it wasn't a good idea because 143 Street is broken in sections and this rerouted Q40 would have to make a difficult turns on 109 Avenue to get onto 143 Street from Lakewood Avenue and on 120 Avenue where the section the reroute operates on ended. So don't tamper the Q40. The only thing I would do is extend the Q40 to 165 Street bus terminal since it is no longer necessary for it to connect directly to the  .

[Q43LTD]

I see making Q113's LTD on Guy R Brewer only again. That is not going to work. What's with trying to make local buses serve North Shore Towers?

[Q90]

I see making Q113's LTD on Guy R Brewer only again. That is not going to work. What's with trying to make local buses serve North Shore Towers?

 Explain how making Q113 LTD only on Guy R. Brewer doesn't work? And I could care less about service to North Shore Towers right now.

[Q43LTD]

Explain how making Q113 LTD only on Guy R. Brewer doesn't work? And I could care less about service to North Shore Towers right now.

Number one, it's one of my home routes. Number 2, there are people that board at the local stops to Far Rockaway.

[Q90]

Number one, it's one of my home routes. Number 2, there are people that board at the local stops to Far Rockaway.

 

*rolls eyes* No one cares if it's your home route and I'm sure people won't mind walking to a Q113 LTD stop on Guy R. Brewer.because the limited stops aren't that far apart actually. Also the Q113 local on Guy R. Brewer is too much of a duplicate of the Q111. And speaking of the Q111, how about extend it to Cedarhurst at all times.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Q90

[Q43LTD]

*rolls eyes* No one cares if it's your home route and I'm sure people won't mind walking to a Q113 LTD stop on Guy R. Brewer.because the limited stops aren't that far apart actually. Also the Q113 local on Guy R. Brewer is too much of a duplicate of the Q111. And speaking of the Q111, how about extend it to Cedarhurst at all times.

How about no? There's no demand for 111's to Cedarhurst. I like how you try to speak for everyone. Rolls eyes back at your ass. Just like nobody gave a damn about your Q90 proposal. The 113 local doesn't duplicate the 111 local.

[Q90]

How about no? There's no demand for 111's to Cedarhurst. I like how you try to speak for everyone. Rolls eyes back at your ass. Just like nobody gave a damn about your Q90 proposal. The 113 local doesn't duplicate the 111 local.

 

 

What the f*** does my Q90 have to do with this. Don't bring up bullshit that isn't related to what we are talking about. And yes the Q113 local is a duplicate because it's routing and stops are mostly the same as the Q111 (except after Brookville Boulevard/147 Avenue).

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

*rolls eyes* No one cares if it's your home route and I'm sure people won't mind walking to a Q113 LTD stop on Guy R. Brewer.because the limited stops aren't that far apart actually. Also the Q113 local on Guy R. Brewer is too much of a duplicate of the Q111. And speaking of the Q111, how about extend it to Cedarhurst at all times.

Actually, your first statement is like saying some here proposes to eliminate your home route for no reason and even if it was your home route they wont give two shits. The people that live there know their needs. Cedarhurst has the n31 that has a connection to the Q113, of those that even use it. Most people in Cedarhurst either use the LIRR, or drive. The n31 is an alternative, and the Q111 is just there not for coverage but for Revenue-related reasons (I think several members talked about this a while back.\).

Edited July 22, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[Q90]

Actually, your first statment is like saying some here proposes to eliminate your home route for no reason and even if it was your home route they wont give two shits. The people that live there know their needs.

 

Thing is, he mainly disagrees with my Q111/Q113 for his own selfish reasons. Saying it's your home route is not a good argument. It has to affect a lot of people, not just yourself. Plus I am not eliminating service, I'm increasing it by making Q111s go to Cedarhurst at all times and making all Q113s LTD down Guy R. Brewer since the Q111 is essentially a local Q113 so Q113 local isn't necessary.

[Q43LTD]

 

 

 

What the f*** does my Q90 have to do with this. Don't bring up bullshit that isn't related to what we are talking about. And yes the Q113 local is a duplicate because it's routing and stops are mostly the same as the Q111 (except after Brookville Boulevard/147 Avenue).

So making it limited only will make the 113 not duplicative? Try again. Guy R Brewer is not Lexington Av.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Thing is, he mainly disagrees with my Q111/Q113 for his own selfish reasons. Saying it's your home route is not a good argument. It has to affect a lot of people, not just yourself. Plus I am not eliminating service, I'm increasing it by making Q111s go to Cedarhurst at all times and making all Q113s LTD down Guy R. Brewer since the Q111 is essentially a local Q113 so Q113 local isn't necessary.

Just leave the current Q113's as it is, do you even know the masses that pile on the local and limiteds at Jamaica during the rush? It's literally cramped, off the edge. Eliminate more local service, you're gonna see people even more cramped. Besides, the Q113 LTD is every 20 minutes for the most part, with 10 minute intervals at rush. You're gonna add excess limited service, which, even though its pretty crushed, is not as needed as the locals, which make a pretty huge percentage of ridership.

[Q90]

So making it limited only will make the 113 not duplicative? Try again. Guy R Brewer is not Lexington Av.

 

 When did I say it was like Lexington Avenue? I'd think it's more like Main Street if anything lol. 

 

Just leave the current Q113's as it is, do you even know the masses that pile on the local and limiteds at Jamaica during the rush? It's literally cramped, off the edge. Eliminate more local service, you're gonna see people even more cramped. Besides, the Q113 LTD is every 20 minutes for the most part, with 10 minute intervals at rush. You're gonna add excess limited service, which, even though its pretty crushed, is not as needed as the locals, which make a pretty huge percentage of ridership.

 

Do you really think I would reduce local service. More Q111s would be added if all Q113s went limited down Guy R. Brewer Boulevard. And yes I do know about how packed the Q111/113 gets. And 10 minute intervals of limited service during rush is not enough on the Q113.

[bobtehpanda]

Thing is, he mainly disagrees with my Q111/Q113 for his own selfish reasons. Saying it's your home route is not a good argument. It has to affect a lot of people, not just yourself. Plus I am not eliminating service, I'm increasing it by making Q111s go to Cedarhurst at all times and making all Q113s LTD down Guy R. Brewer since the Q111 is essentially a local Q113 so Q113 local isn't necessary.

 

"Let's not listen to a local who understands the need to his community, because silence from everybody else = support!"

 

Adding more Q113 LTDs is based on the assumption that everyone from the Rockaways just wants a speedy ride to Jamaica, which isn't necessarily true. There may be 113 riders getting off at Cedarhurst or on local stops.

 

Also contrary to your assertions, local stop spacing is actually very important in the outer neighborhoods of Queens - the distances between the routes are quite far to walk, even for fit, healthy people. The stop spacing is honestly not that much of an issue outside of Jamaica, where stops increase travel time significantly.

[bobtehpanda]

 When did I say it was like Lexington Avenue? I'd think it's more like Main Street if anything lol. 

Do you really think I would reduce local service. More Q111s would be added if all Q113s went limited down Guy R. Brewer Boulevard. And yes I do know about how packed the Q111/113 gets. And 10 minute intervals of limited service during rush is not enough on the Q113.

 

One, Main St only has as much service as it does because it has a Limited Route going to the Bronx. If the Q44 were a Queens only route, the Q25/34 would actually be a stronger route than the Q20/44, simply because there are more destinations on the Q25/34 (most notably easier access to Queens College, the apartment blocks on Kissena, while Main fronts the Botantical Gardens and a cemetery for a significant portion of the trip. But historically speaking, bus service on the 25/34 hasn't been as good as the 20/44, so residents are wary of using it.

 

Two, every ten minutes is better than the damn Bx41 SBS. If there was that much demand for Jamaica-Rockaway limited trips, then by all means, increase 113 service. However, keep in mind that people really do not like transferring, and very few people transfer from local buses to limited buses. Making the 113 all limited would only make Rockaway 113 riders suffer, since they would suffer a decrease in the amount of area served by a one-seat ride

[Q90]

"Let's not listen to a local who understands the need to his community, because silence from everybody else = support!"

 

 

That is so not true. It's that he stated that a reason he gave was for his own benefits only. His argument would make sense if he stated how it would be for other people, not just him.

[Q43LTD]

That is so not true. It's that he stated that a reason he gave was for his own benefits only. His argument would make sense if he stated how it would be for other people, not just him.

My arguments were for others, not for myself.

[Q90]

One, Main St only has as much service as it does because it has a Limited Route going to the Bronx. If the Q44 were a Queens only route, the Q25/34 would actually be a stronger route than the Q20/44, simply because there are more destinations on the Q25/34 (most notably easier access to Queens College, the apartment blocks on Kissena, while Main fronts the Botantical Gardens and a cemetery for a significant portion of the trip. But historically speaking, bus service on the 25/34 hasn't been as good as the 20/44, so residents are wary of using it.

 

Two, every ten minutes is better than the damn Bx41 SBS. If there was that much demand for Jamaica-Rockaway limited trips, then by all means, increase 113 service. However, keep in mind that people really do not like transferring, and very few people transfer from local buses to limited buses. Making the 113 all limited would only make Rockaway 113 riders suffer, since they would suffer a decrease in the amount of area served by a one-seat ride

 

I know people do not like transferring, hell I don't like transferring myself. Oh and a thought just came into my mind but don't take it like I'm seriously proposing it though because it's only a thought but I do want you to tell me what you think. How about extend the Q111 to Far Rockaway-Beach 20 Street (where the Q113 currently terminates) and make the Q113 a full limited route. Q111 would be extended along the local Q113 route after turning off Peninsula Boulevard at Rockaway Turnpike. All Q113s would use Nassau Expressway in Rockaway.

 

My arguments were for others, not for myself.

 

Then don't mention a reason is that it's your home route because then it makes it look like you don't like my proposal because it only affects you.

[Q43LTD]

I know people do not like transferring, hell I don't like transferring myself. Oh and a thought just came into my mind but don't take it like I'm seriously proposing it though because it's only a thought but I do want you to tell me what you think. How about extend the Q111 to Far Rockaway-Beach 20 Street (where the Q113 currently terminates) and make the Q113 a full limited route. Q111 would be extended along the local Q113 route after turning off Peninsula Boulevard at Rockaway Turnpike. All Q113s would use Nassau Expressway in Rockaway.

No. That's overkill. Leave the 111 at Rosedale

[bobtehpanda]

Number 2, there are people that board at the local stops to Far Rockaway.

 

Funny, could've sworn that more than one rider does this. Heck, Q43LTD himself might not even do this, so to say that this is selfish

 

*rolls eyes* No one cares if it's your home route and I'm sure people won't mind walking to a Q113 LTD stop on Guy R. Brewer.because the limited stops aren't that far apart actually. Also the Q113 local on Guy R. Brewer is too much of a duplicate of the Q111.

 

It sounds like you need a walkthrough on what duplication of service is in the context of transit.

 

In most cases, duplication means "making an exact copy". This is not what it means in transit.

 

Running multiple routes down the same street is not duplicative. Multiple bus routes on the same street serve as lower-frequency branches of a main, higher-frequency trunk route, much as the , , , and can all be thought of as branches of the Sixth Avenue Line. This is a good thing - multiple points can be reached from the same bus stop, and on the high-frequency trunk, service is very high - missing the 111 to Jamaica isn't a big deal, because there's a 113 local right behind it. This is what the current pattern of service on Guy R Brewer and 147th is like.

 

Running multiple routes down closely parallel streets is duplicative. It's bad - instead of one big frequent trunk route, you've got a lot of lower-frequency routes. Say you live between two imaginary streets - First Street and Second Street. There are two parallel bus routes going to the same destination, and both routes run every fifteen minutes. There is no bus tracking app, and even if there was, you don't own a smartphone to see where the buses are. So what do you do? First or Second? You walk down to First, but as you reach the intersection, you hear a sound, and turn around. The bus on Second just arrived. Too late to run back to Second to catch that bus, so you end up having to wait longer.

 

Parallel routes destroy other routes' ridership, reduce frequency on other routes, create more complexity, and make passengers' lives worse. For example, let's take the bus on Park Avenue you proposed on another thread. It's not going to become a very busy route - routes on Madison and Lexington are much more frequent, and there's a subway very close by. However, there are some people who do take the route, and ridership on Park starts climbing, but never to very high levels. Where did these riders come from? They're certainly not new - Park Avenue is mostly inhabited by snobbish people too good to take the bus, so these riders came from other routes. A decline in bus ridership is soon noticed on Madison and Lexington. MTA, being the chronically poor agency that it is, decides to cut service on these routes, and bus ridership suffers further due to reduced frequency.

 

What happened, you might ask? Well, the pool of transit riders in New York is limited, especially in Manhattan, since nearly everyone who can and wants to takes transit already. Before your Park Avenue route was created, the pool of riders was divided between two sets of bus routes - those on Madison and those on Lexington. After, the pool of riders is divided between three bus routes - each route now has 66% of what the previous routes had before. Bus frequencies are cut to meet this "reduced" demand, which results in further declines in bus ridership. The vicious cycle goes on, and why? Because you didn't think that people could be bothered to walk two blocks to very frequent bus service.

 

Don't throw around the word "duplicative" like you know what it means in the transit context, because you really don't.

 

Then don't mention a reason is that it's your home route because then it makes it look like you don't like my proposal because it only affects you.

 

So we can't say that we live next to such-and-such route because using a bus route that you'd like to change makes us selfish?

[B35 via Church]

To add onto everything that's been said, Marcus is also where the eastbound GCP/NSP has its exit/entrance lanes... so no one would attempt to get off/on there.

 

Yes, NSLIJ is a hub, but if we were to send another east-west route there (and it may not be necessary, given the empty seats that the 46 runs there have sometimes), the 36 is a route I decidedly wouldn't send there. It's too slow - the local running on Hillside guarantees that. At least with the 46 LTD it's speedy enough such that hospital users could conceivably use it if they needed to make an appointment or something. If anything, extend the 43 through Langdale (or Lakeville) to the 46 terminus, if you need riders south of Union to go to the hospital.

I'm not gonna bother discussing/debating whether the 36 or the 43 should go to NSLIJ because that is a separate discussion....

 

I just don't agree w/ the whole LNP > Marcus > Lakeville routing of his, if his aim is to cut mileage on the 36 & have it serve the hospital to boot..... If he wants to truncate the 36, he would do more for more people by having it go LNP > union tpke > lakeville (again, as opposed to LNP > Marcus > Lakeville).....

[NY1635]

I know people do not like transferring, hell I don't like transferring myself. Oh and a thought just came into my mind but don't take it like I'm seriously proposing it though because it's only a thought but I do want you to tell me what you think. How about extend the Q111 to Far Rockaway-Beach 20 Street (where the Q113 currently terminates) and make the Q113 a full limited route. Q111 would be extended along the local Q113 route after turning off Peninsula Boulevard at Rockaway Turnpike. All Q113s would use Nassau Expressway in Rockaway.

 

 

 

Then don't mention a reason is that it's your home route because then it makes it look like you don't like my proposal because it only affects you.

 

What about Five Towns?