Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[SubBus]

I'm one of those that board the bus at 169. Get that seat, plus where I have the choice of the getting the (Q3) or (Q77) depending on the time of day...

.......and the Q3 and the Q77 stop on the same block at 169th Street

[bobtehpanda]

.......and the Q3 and the Q77 stop on the same block at 169th Street

 

...that's what he was saying.

 

But yes, another Q5 branch is going to be absolutely confusing, so unless you're diverting a huge chunk of service there (say, a third or half of peak service or more), it's not worth it. You have to keep the system somewhat simple for the sake of simplicity for the passengers - the bus map already looks ridiculous as it is, and you can't just add branches running all over the place willy nilly. That leads you to something like the WMATA map, where it's pretty hard to decipher what directions the buses are going in or where they terminate and whatnot.

[qjtransitmaster]

...that's what he was saying.

 

But yes, another Q5 branch is going to be absolutely confusing, so unless you're diverting a huge chunk of service there (say, a third or half of peak service or more), it's not worth it. You have to keep the system somewhat simple for the sake of simplicity for the passengers - the bus map already looks ridiculous as it is, and you can't just add branches running all over the place willy nilly. That leads you to something like the WMATA map, where it's pretty hard to decipher what directions the buses are going in or where they terminate and whatnot.

Not gonna lie WMATA is one hard as hell bus network to decipher I will tell you that even I have trouble finding out what is what they will bust your brain big time. I admit the cedarhurst thing was a bit much but question why did the Q111 go there at all? And @ B35 yes Q85s can work too for that rosedale extension to 149th at 153rd it can be either Q5 LTDs Or Q85 but I chose Q5 cause it's relatively direct and quick and ends at the LIRR station dead there so I thought why not extend it's reach to more residents as X63 shouldn't be the only bus there as it's an express bus to manhattan not everyone wants manhattan so why not extend Q5 yeah it could potentially get folks to LIRR but that is just one of the many purposes this extension can serve. I doubt that off-peak service would be needed there but who knows.

[qjtransitmaster]

perhaps I underestimated how quick the current Q17 is and how effed up that part of GCP can be maybe the Q17 can be extended to LGA beyond flushing via northern blvd and ditmars. at rush only Q17 LTDs would make the trip. Thanks bobtehpanda with this M60 won't need to go anywhere past LGA.

[NewFlyer 230]

perhaps I underestimated how quick the current Q17 is and how effed up that part of GCP can be maybe the Q17 can be extended to LGA beyond flushing via northern blvd and ditmars. at rush only Q17 LTDs would make the trip. Thanks bobtehpanda with this M60 won't need to go anywhere past LGA.

You never run out of ideas don't you

[qjtransitmaster]

You never run out of ideas don't you

I admit that is my main weakness when it comes to NYC. With NJT it's set in stone and pretty much done however few here have such extensive knowledge of NJT so it would be pointless to discuss it here as many parts won't be understood as those parts may cover areas of NJT most here are not familiar with.

 

SEPTA I will have to post elsewhere but that one is finished along with the MD one which is my most cost-efficient out of all of em NJT being 2nd and westchester beeline being 3rd most efficient tied with my NICE proposal which is set in stone the NICE one would be as efficient as the NJT one but it doesn't involve speed as much as the NJT and NYC ones which accomplish the goals with differing approaches. with NJ it's via mergers or restructuring mostly sometimes as many as 3 lines get merged into 1 line that connects previously disconnected areas. SEPTA involves reshaping segments of lines and merging em with appropriate lines and streamlining routes to be more direct some lines do get axed however and replaced with others restructured. Some are extended to improve connectivity of the many employment hubs all over philly's outer parts not everything is based on center city!!!

more efficient than NYC but less so than the NJT one.

NYC it involves either new routes altogether or extensions of some LTD buses or locals to cover portions of other lines Hint: not all of my so called extensions involve a highway in NYC most do NOT!!!!

 

NYC being the least efficient due to difficulty of layout and extensiveness of the network all you can do is close a few gaps. The way it is structured and the fact that buses are slow as hell make many approaches in my other plans not applicable to NYC at all. Unlike NICE and westchester it needs HOVs to work in some cases in manhattan one such corridor would need HOV for that proposal to even work due to severe rush hr traffic. GCP can be beaten with the service road and alternate routes to beat traffic. even the BQE can be beaten via proper routing even at rush hour a BQE based bus can maintain reliability with the appropriate detours and still keep to the schedule.

 

 

However my original NJT plan was similar in approach as my NYC style approach but after 2010 that plan was scrapped. 

 

With NICE it's done with decentralization and eliminating duplication yes this requires some lines to get upgraded service levels but it also allows others to absorb segments of weaker lines as well as create more direct lines.

Edited July 1, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

....And @ B35 yes Q85s can work too for that rosedale extension to 149th at 153rd it can be either Q5 LTDs Or Q85 but I chose Q5 cause it's relatively direct and quick and ends at the LIRR station dead there so I thought why not extend it's reach to more residents as X63 shouldn't be the only bus there as it's an express bus to manhattan not everyone wants manhattan so why not extend Q5 yeah it could potentially get folks to LIRR but that is just one of the many purposes this extension can serve. I doubt that off-peak service would be needed there but who knows.

Except Q85's to that part of Rosedale is not something I'm actually suggesting....

The x63 isn't as isolated as you're making it out to be either; the Q111 isn't that far away.....

 

Furthermore, everyone not wanting manhattan isn't a reason to extend the Q5 (or the Q85 for that matter) down there... The Q5 & the Q85 both terminate at Jamaica center, so what really is the benefit.... The Q5 after serving LIRR Rosedale to head on down to the same part of Rosedale the x63 serves would make the Q5 route less direct than what it is now.... I don't know what it is you don't see about that.....

[Q43LTD]

I don't understand what is his obsession with giving Francis Lewis south of the LIRR local bus service. The Q86 failed and the 111 extension to Green Acres proposed by DOT probably would have failed too. It's not warranted to have 5's or 85's down there either. I'm still waiting on this "information he gathered"

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't understand what is his obsession with giving Francis Lewis south of the LIRR local bus service. The Q86 failed and the 111 extension to Green Acres proposed by DOT probably would have failed too. It's not warranted to have 5's or 85's down there either. I'm still waiting on this "information he gathered"

Q86 only failed cause it did not go anywhere else you can't compare it to a small Q5 extension. So Q86 is irrelevant. Last I checked Q5 LTD is faster than Q85 traffic patterns were observed. Q111 extension to green acres would be 4 mins tops cmon man I wonder if you truly know that area. Or even how bus routes can effect each other. Edited July 1, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

Q86 only failed cause it did not go anywhere else you can't compare it to a small Q5 extension.

I'll give you that much, however....

 

Last I checked Q5 LTD is faster than Q85 traffic patterns were observed.

.....That isn't considering that southward extension you're suggesting..... You're still making the Q5 more indirect than it has to be.

[Q43LTD]

Q86 only failed cause it did not go anywhere else you can't compare it to a small Q5 extension. So Q86 is irrelevant. Last I checked Q5 LTD is faster than Q85 traffic patterns were observed. Q111 extension to green acres would be 4 mins tops cmon man I wonder if you truly know that area. Or even how bus routes can effect each other.

A small Q5 extension? Give me your best shot how far you think it is from Rosedale LIRR to 253 St/149 Av? You honestly think it will take 4 minutes to get from Franny Lew 147 to Green Acres? Is this the "information you gathered"? Traffic patterns observed? GTFO my borough dude

[qjtransitmaster]

A small Q5 extension? Give me your best shot how far you think it is from Rosedale LIRR to 253 St/149 Av? You honestly think it will take 4 minutes to get from Franny Lew 147 to Green Acres? Is this the "information you gathered"? Traffic patterns observed? GTFO my borough dude

wow dude you need a chill pill however I did learn that after that B84 fiasco there are better ways to serve those parts of queens than with Brooklyn routes. That Q5 extension should be no more than 10 minutes. Especially for weak lines ohh well. Why so serious it's the internet. That Q111 can use Rosedale rd to mill rd for green acres that should be no more than 15 minutes. Edited July 1, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[Q43LTD]

wow dude you need a chill pill however I did learn that after that B84 fiasco there are better ways to serve those parts of queens than with Brooklyn routes. That Q5 extension should be no more than 10 minutes. Especially for weak lines ohh well. Why so serious it's the internet. That Q111 can use Rosedale rd to mill rd for green acres that should be no more than 15 minutes.

Chill out? You can't leave shit alone and you want me to chill out?! Every street in NYC, LI, Westchester or everywhere else doesn't need a bus route.I told you once, I told you again, stop turning NYC routes into NJT routes

[qjtransitmaster]

Chill out? You can't leave shit alone and you want me to chill out?! Every street in NYC, LI, Westchester or everywhere else doesn't need a bus route.I told you once, I told you again, stop turning NYC routes into NJT routes

I am not if I was then I'd be creating triborough LTD routes like express buses so yeah your overblowing this big time it's just a forum. No need to stress over some internet post you don't agree with. That post proves how weak your argument truly is.

[bobtehpanda]

I am not if I was then I'd be creating triborough LTD routes like express buses so yeah your overblowing this big time it's just a forum. No need to stress over some internet post you don't agree with. That post proves how weak your argument truly is.

 

It is a forum, but it's a forum for serious discussion on improvements to bus routes. If you're not going to post something meant to be taken seriously, then you might as well not post at all.

[Q43LTD]

I am not if I was then I'd be creating triborough LTD routes like express buses so yeah your overblowing this big time it's just a forum. No need to stress over some internet post you don't agree with. That post proves how weak your argument truly is.

There we go. Lying out of our ass again aren't we?

[qjtransitmaster]

There we go. Lying out of our ass again aren't we?

to be honest I wasn't lying you just won't read that's all not my problem if your that lazy. Want a cookie for making shit up? I can't make you read or understand things you can't. So try to be objective if you can just try. Edited July 2, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

It is a forum, but it's a forum for serious discussion on improvements to bus routes. If you're not going to post something meant to be taken seriously, then you might as well not post at all.

and being A jerk accomplished what exactly?

[bobtehpanda]

and being A jerk accomplished what exactly?

 

Telling you to provide proof is not being a jerk. You provide all these routes, but when you're confronted with something that conflicts, you just repeat your line over and over again until it goes away. The rest of us actually try to modify our plans for a solution, or provide evidence that the problem isn't a problem.

 

And then you laugh it off as a joke or you start insulting people by saying that whatever they're saying is an insult, even when it's not. If you're not going to take your own work seriously, then who is?

[B35 via Church]

It is a forum, but it's a forum for serious discussion on improvements to bus routes. If you're not going to post something meant to be taken seriously, then you might as well not post at all.

Telling you to provide proof is not being a jerk. You provide all these routes, but when you're confronted with something that conflicts, you just repeat your line over and over again until it goes away. The rest of us actually try to modify our plans for a solution, or provide evidence that the problem isn't a problem.

 

And then you laugh it off as a joke or you start insulting people by saying that whatever they're saying is an insult, even when it's not. If you're not going to take your own work seriously, then who is?

Chill out? You can't leave shit alone and you want me to chill out?!

Every street in NYC, LI, Westchester or everywhere else doesn't need a bus route.I told you once, I told you again, stop turning NYC routes into NJT routes

Have him tell it - "Ohh if you have to bash fantasy it goes to show how pathetic one can be"

In other words, one is pathetic if they give negative criticism to any fantasy ideas (of his).....

 

Goes back to what p3acemaker said earlier about people only wanting positive responses.....

Edited July 2, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

Telling you to provide proof is not being a jerk. You provide all these routes, but when you're confronted with something that conflicts, you just repeat your line over and over again until it goes away. The rest of us actually try to modify our plans for a solution, or provide evidence that the problem isn't a problem.

 

And then you laugh it off as a joke or you start insulting people by saying that whatever they're saying is an insult, even when it's not. If you're not going to take your own work seriously, then who is?

Ok I got carried away I read over your posts and they actually gave me some new ideas and insight I found different approaches to certain corridors and connectivity issues. I do admit if I don't map my ideas nobody would understand em anyway except a very experienced planner and even then flaws will be found. My linden blvd queens connector plan was modified to have a queens route take that up I will tell you soon but after learning more about B84 and other lines there I may be able to structure service to baisley without B84 going past say lefferts airtrain or even gateway mall but that needs more study. I should post each route and it's effect on other lines and how it works together but I will admit my bronx JFK route is more complicated than I anticipated and would take up 5 or more paragraphs to fully explain. The Q57 route may be better off as a dollar van service due to flexibility of vans and the fact that only an RTS or designline would be usable on such a route. The Jamacia to LGA route I heard about from my MTA buddy I do remember jhota talking about it in an article somewhere but still. Even a downtown brooklyn LGA line was discussed so that is already an idea or proposal MTA planners were throwing out there long before I thought of it but it may depend on the Q70's success. Which may become a SBS line eventually but that would mean some real changes would be needed.  

 

Ohh in a nutshell my bronx proposal has 1 line via highway but the stint is very short like 4 mins tops and the route is starved for ridership anyway. There is no local bus other than that 1 line relegated for SPEED. A bus doesn't always have use a highway to speed up service on said route that is a stereotype that is simply not true and only applies to a few lines the rest are new routes. I do not try to make NYC lines NJT like that is simply not true because none of my proposals have said characteristics. 

 

 

Bronx: 1 extension uses I-87 the rest do not involve any highway whatsoever.

 

Queens: 3 new routes LTD that use highway one from the bronx the other links the east side of jamacia with LGA with a stop at jewel via GCP and service road at times of back up starts off as 7 day route  the 2nd the 1st would have Q50 like headways.

the 3rd is low priority due to complications of only able to use RTS and vehicles shorter than 10 feet 3 inches in height.

 

Manhattan: 1 streamlined only after HOV is made available at rush hr meant to cut down a huge chunk of run-time on the route and streamline a nearby express bus.  I figured out west street if ever to be properly served with transit can't be served properly with local/LTD bus service and only outerborough inter-regional bus service can properly serve that corridor. NO I don't plan to make new lines hint however is it would drastically cut down DH time on some lines. Some local buses can be rearranged to better serve some residential areas and connect to potential trip generators. Some buses don't link to the subway properly Hint:

 

Staten island: S55/56/57 lets face it there are no other options to increase ridership within SI it simply can't be done as long as they only serve SI.

 

Brooklyn: To be honest I am not completely sure about the belt since it's influenced by brooklynbus and I was looking into how SI would be effected.

 

Have him tell it - "Ohh if you have to bash fantasy it goes to show how pathetic one can be"

In other words, one is pathetic if they give negative criticism to any fantasy ideas (of his).....

 

Goes back to what p3acemaker said earlier about people only wanting positive responses.....

If you don't agree with something counter using your own proposal or information that can influence the opposing party.

[B35 via Church]

If you don't agree with something counter using your own proposal or information that can influence the opposing party.

How many times does the same shit have to be said to you by multiple people, for you to get the message though..... This has been going on for years with you, QJT.... Influence the opposing party? - You don't seem to get the message when people DO give their opinions.....

 

People don't have to give a counter-proposal as a response to a proposal you think up..... You got things alllll twisted....

You post a proposal, people can either post nothing, post their agreements, or post their disagreements to whatever it is that's being proposed - That's how it works.... If there is someone that disagrees with some original proposal, they can perhaps post a counter-proposal......

 

You think the general public that attend these MTA public hearings have counter proposals?

No - they go there to either show their approval or disapproval of something the MTA proposes......

[qjtransitmaster]

Actually I was influenced earlier my updated queens proposal borrows from your Q7 baisley idea but the goal is to have JFK as the major transfer point for the B22 line(after buses are granted permission to use the full belt parkway) have that small Q7 stint either transferred to extended Q10 short turns via federal circle airtrain. Or extended Q40 trips extended to federal circle. With B84 becoming the linden Blvd route instead of a new B106 but unlike the original it won't stay on linden the whole way as there are medical centers nearby to link to. How fast are B35 DHs via linden?

[B35 via Church]

How fast are B35 DHs via linden ?

So you really don't know how traffic moves along linden, if you're asking this question.... I figured you didn't....

 

B8/B35 deadheads on linden is only as fast as the regular traffic on linden (which isn't all that fast; and god help you if you're behind a truck or two).... Only time they SPEED on linden is during the late evening/early morning hrs..... Approaching AM rush hour, some b/o's will even use church av to get to Brownsville.....

 

What would it matter anyway.... You can't use deadhead time to gauge an in-service route's runtime.....

[qjtransitmaster]

So you really don't know how traffic moves along linden, if you're asking this question.... I figured you didn't....

 

B8/B35 deadheads on linden is only as fast as the regular traffic on linden (which isn't all that fast; and god help you if you're behind a truck or two).... Only time they SPEED on linden is during the late evening/early morning hrs..... Approaching AM rush hour, some b/o's will even use church av to get to Brownsville.....

 

What would it matter anyway.... You can't use deadhead time to gauge an in-service route's runtime.....

I see so my hunch was right. Ohh well going to see Q7 soon.