Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Q43 Floral Park]

Springfield Blvd was recently (within the last couple of years) fully built down to 147th Avenue with two moving lanes in each direction. As part of that work, Springfield Lane now dead-ends about 20 feet shy of where it used to feed into Springfield Blvd.  If you turn left on Springfield Lane, you would also have to turn right on 221st or 220th Street, then left on 146th Avenue to get back to Springfield Blvd.

 

I don't see the logic in dead-ending the lane short when they could have just turned the Lane into a 1-way after 220 St that fed into the N/B side of the Blvd (if the concern was about people trying to make a left from the Lane onto the Blvd?) but the damage is already done and I doubt they'll rectify it. Part of me wants to say that's fine though. Run it Lane-220-146-Blvd and the N/B stops at Sp Ln/147, Sp Ln/220 and then Sp Bl/146. 220/221 are about as wide as 174 St and the Q42 runs in both directions on the latter.

[B35 via Church]

Yeah I know, I was suggesting extending the tripper service....

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/18104-have-anyone-been-on-nycmta-bus-school-tripper-run/page-2?do=findComment&comment=246293

 

I'd honestly think the QM15 by itself would be better, but I don't know enough about it would affect East New York riders as I'm not to familiar with express bus ridership over there. 

Better than what?

 

I'm addressing this part of your earlier post:

"My main problem with making adjustment with the QM15 or adding Rockway service is the BM5."

 

At minimum, this implicates that the BM5 is some sort of hindrance to any possible changes on the QM15...

[Gotham Bus Co.]

The Q76 already has trippers to Bayside HS....

 

Correction:

 

The Q76 used to have a morning tripper for Bayside High School arrivals, ending at the school. They killed it 10+ years ago because nobody rode it.

 

There is still one Q76 dismissal tripper from Bayside High School (run by QV). 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Gotham Bus Co.

[B35 via Church]

Correction:

 

The Q76 used to have a morning tripper for Bayside High School arrivals, ending at the school. They killed it 10+ years ago because nobody rode it.

 

There is still one Q76 dismissal tripper from Bayside High School (run by QV). 

Alright, so he's (iAlam) talking about extending one bus to College Point.... Good to know.

[IAlam]

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/18104-have-anyone-been-on-nycmta-bus-school-tripper-run/page-2?do=findComment&comment=246293

 

Better than what?

 

I'm addressing this part of your earlier post:

"My main problem with making adjustment with the QM15 or adding Rockway service is the BM5."

 

At minimum, this implicates that the BM5 is some sort of hindrance to any possible changes on the QM15...

 

Ideally for me I'd want the whole corridor have 20 min service off peak, with one bus of those buses every hour going to Rockways. But with the BM5 it would be difficult and confusing to schedule. 

 

Correction:

 

The Q76 used to have a morning tripper for Bayside High School arrivals, ending at the school. They killed it 10+ years ago because nobody rode it.

 

There is still one Q76 dismissal tripper from Bayside High School (run by QV). 

 

^Yeah that bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ideally for me I'd want the whole corridor have 20 min service off peak...

A QM15 every 20 minutes is overkill. I'd go with hourly service during the light periods and on Sundays, and 30 minutes on Saturdays most of the day, otherwise you'd have too many empty buses. I would be marketing that bus for the beachgoers to the Rockaways to fill those empty seats.

[IAlam]

A QM15 every 20 minutes is overkill. I'd go with hourly service during the light periods and on Sundays, and 30 minutes on Saturdays most of the day, otherwise you'd have too many empty buses. I would be marketing that bus for the beachgoers to the Rockaways to fill those empty seats.

While I do agree with Sunday service not needing as much, Saturday could use 20min in the morning.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

While I do agree with Sunday service not needing as much, Saturday could use 20min in the morning.

I disagree. Where do you come up with such frequencies? Having used the QM15 for quite a while on Saturdays during different parts of the day, 20 minutes is overkill.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

20 minute frequencies are NOT needed on the QM15 at any point outside the rush. 

 

Additionally, the areas the BM5 serves (certain parts of Lindenwood, ENY along Linden Boulevard, and Pennsylvania Avenue) are very time-consuming to do with the bus + subway, or extremely difficult to do so (or both). Much of the off-peak ridership on the BM5 still comes from East New York (with a sizable portion coming from Spring Creek). With the amount of delays on the subways and buses, and the fact that the subways have to go via Downtown first makes that trip almost always longer than the bus. Additionally, you don't want to force even more people onto the subways as is. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

20 minute frequencies are NOT needed on the QM15 at any point outside the rush. 

 

Additionally, the areas the BM5 serves (certain parts of Lindenwood, ENY along Linden Boulevard, and Pennsylvania Avenue) are very time-consuming to do with the bus + subway, or extremely difficult to do so (or both). Much of the off-peak ridership on the BM5 still comes from East New York (with a sizable portion coming from Spring Creek). With the amount of delays on the subways and buses, and the fact that the subways have to go via Downtown first makes that trip almost always longer than the bus. Additionally, you don't want to force even more people onto the subways as is.

 

I have yet to be on a QM15 that was even close to having every seat filled on Saturday. I had to look for a seat of my liking, but I still had a seat to myself and room to stretch out. That's why I said 30 minute headways part of the day on Saturday. Even if you have beach goers they won't be taking the express bus in packs because of the $6.50 fare.

[B35 via Church]

Ideally for me I'd want the whole corridor have 20 min service off peak, with one bus of those buses every hour going to Rockways. But with the BM5 it would be difficult and confusing to schedule.

Never mind  that being too much service off peak for Woodhaven blvd for a second....

 

....Even if you wanted to do that, why does the BM5 have to be included in that formula? In other words, why not have 3 BPH off peak on the QM15 specifically w/ 1 of the 3 running to the Rockaways - Instead of trying to piecemeal some combination of 3 BPH (off peak) with both the QM15 & the BM5 (which I agree would be problematic logistically).....

 

What's kind of being implicated is that:

- one of 3 buses (in a given off peak hour) along Woodhaven blvd run to Brooklyn...

- one of the remaining 2 buses running the current QM15 route, and...

- the other remaining bus in the 20 min. headway scheme being an extended QM15 to the Rockaways....

 

The way I see it, it's enough that the QM15 would even run to the Rockaways off peak, but to have every other QM15 in-particular running down there is over the top....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Never mind that being too much service off peak for Woodhaven blvd for a second....

 

....Even if you wanted to do that, why does the BM5 have to be included in that formula? In other words, why not have 3 BPH off peak on the QM15 specifically w/ 1 of the 3 running to the Rockaways - Instead of trying to piecemeal some combination of 3 BPH (off peak) with both the QM15 & the BM5 (which I agree would be problematic logistically).....

 

What's kind of being implicated is that:

- one of 3 buses (in a given off peak hour) along Woodhaven blvd run to Brooklyn...

- one of the remaining 2 buses running the current QM15 route, and...

- the other remaining bus in the 20 min. headway scheme being an extended QM15 to the Rockaways....

 

The way I see it, it's enough that the QM15 would even run to the Rockaways off peak, but to have every other QM15 in-particular running down there is over the top....

I would only extend the QM15 on weekends... Sundays hourly service, Saturday's hourly service save the busier parts of the day where it would have 30 minute headways. More than enough service and less confusion. All QM15's on weekends would serve the Rockaways. Off-peak during the week you can run more QM16 and QM17 buses hourly, giving the Rockaways a combined 30 minute headway. Edited May 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Mtatransit]

The ferry caters to Rockaway Beach goers anyways, and it's only $2.75...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The ferry caters to Rockaway Beach goers anyways, and it's only $2.75...

It doesn't serve Midtown directly. Only Downtown. Commuters coming from further north would have the express bus as an option. There are people that will pay $6.50 especially when it cuts out a gazillion transfers that add up to almost the same amount. There is no transfer to the ferry save the free shuttle bus in the Rockaways. Edited May 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[IAlam]

20 minute frequencies are NOT needed on the QM15 at any point outside the rush. 

 

Additionally, the areas the BM5 serves (certain parts of Lindenwood, ENY along Linden Boulevard, and Pennsylvania Avenue) are very time-consuming to do with the bus + subway, or extremely difficult to do so (or both). Much of the off-peak ridership on the BM5 still comes from East New York (with a sizable portion coming from Spring Creek). With the amount of delays on the subways and buses, and the fact that the subways have to go via Downtown first makes that trip almost always longer than the bus. Additionally, you don't want to force even more people onto the subways as is. 

 

This is what i wanted to know originally,

 

 

Never mind  that being too much service off peak for Woodhaven blvd for a second....

 

....Even if you wanted to do that, why does the BM5 have to be included in that formula? In other words, why not have 3 BPH off peak on the QM15 specifically w/ 1 of the 3 running to the Rockaways - Instead of trying to piecemeal some combination of 3 BPH (off peak) with both the QM15 & the BM5 (which I agree would be problematic logistically).....

 

What's kind of being implicated is that:

- one of 3 buses (in a given off peak hour) along Woodhaven blvd run to Brooklyn...

- one of the remaining 2 buses running the current QM15 route, and...

- the other remaining bus in the 20 min. headway scheme being an extended QM15 to the Rockaways....

 

The way I see it, it's enough that the QM15 would even run to the Rockaways off peak, but to have every other QM15 in-particular running down there is over the top....

 

But if the QM15 was extended to the Rockaways for off peak, could the current headway support everyone comfortably?

[checkmatechamp13]

But if the QM15 was extended to the Rockaways for off peak, could the current headway support everyone comfortably?

 

Well, how many people are on a a typical QM15 currently? Say what, like 20-30? An MCI bus can seat 57 people. Say you get another 10 people from the Rockaways, you still have a decent cushion to fit them comfortably on one bus.

[B35 via Church]

I would only extend the QM15 on weekends... Sundays hourly service, Saturday's hourly service save the busier parts of the day where it would have 30 minute headways. More than enough service and less confusion. All QM15's on weekends would serve the Rockaways. Off-peak during the week you can run more QM16 and QM17 buses hourly, giving the Rockaways a combined 30 minute headway.

Where in the Rockaways did you say you'd have these buses running to?

 

But if the QM15 was extended to the Rockaways for off peak, could the current headway support everyone comfortably?

1) How many people do you think are taking express buses along Woodhaven blvd off peak?

2) How much latent ridership do you believe exists in the Rockaways, off peak?

 

My answer to #1 is that the current headways of the QM15 are sufficient & my answer to #2 is little to none, quite honestly..... Running Qm15's to the Rockaways off peak will not come close to warranting more service for Woodhaven blvd. due to some influx of ridership in the Rockaways I don't believe exists.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Where in the Rockaways did you say you'd have these buses running to?

That's the tricky part. I wouldn't want it running to Neponsit or to Far Rockaway. I'm not sure what would be a good middle ground for the residents east and west and the beach goers. I think you either have to serve both ends or end it somewhere in the middle. The only issue with that is accessibility.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Any thoughts on making the Q49 run 24/7?

 

The reason why I'm asking is because besides the area along the Q33 route (82 Street and 35 Avenue), and by Northern, there's no other bus running during overnight hours in those areas. With the latter, there would be more connections to the subway.

 

The overnight bus would run every 40 or 60 minutes.

[B35 via Church]

That's the tricky part. I wouldn't want it running to Neponsit or to Far Rockaway. I'm not sure what would be a good middle ground for the residents east and west and the beach goers. I think you either have to serve both ends or end it somewhere in the middle. The only issue with that is accessibility.

I'll put it like this.... there is more seclusion in the western part of the Rockaways than there are in the eastern portion of the Rockaways.....

Not that I'm for this QM15 to the Rockaways bit, but I think you have a better chance of those that live east of the wye willing to take the Q22 from some point west, back east, than those that live west of the wye willing to take the Q22 from some point east, back west..... All that to basically say, I don't there there is a good middle ground to be had otherwise, outside of coming off the bridge itself....

 

Save for summers, the Q22 is shunned west of B. 116th..... I cannot think of one area in the city where the local is shunned that badly by its residents... Not in Riverdale, not in Country Club, not in Eastern Queens (although the Q36 along LNP comes close)...

 

 

Any thoughts on making the Q49 run 24/7?

 

The reason why I'm asking is because besides the area along the Q33 route (82 Street and 35 Avenue), and by Northern, there's no other bus running during overnight hours in those areas. With the latter, there would be more connections to the subway.

 

The overnight bus would run every 40 or 60 minutes.

Been saying that should happen (overnight service) ever since it was the Q19B.... But of course, all the attention about the area was hyper-focused on the infamous Q33 back then (by the MTA & the riders as well).... I was out of my mind on RD apparently (when I first started posting there)...

 

This isn't a knock on you, but I find it funny how ever since the Q33's been neutered, more people (riders at 74th) are seeing the value more & more of the Q49.... Now what I don't want to happen is for the 49 to get extended to Flushing, aside from, or on top of, any addition of overnight service..... That extension was good for the Q19, but it would loom detrimental to a route like the Q49.... It would be like extending the M35 deeper/westward along 125th.....

Edited May 22, 2017 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'll put it like this.... there is more seclusion in the western part of the Rockaways than there are in the eastern portion of the Rockaways.....

Not that I'm for this QM15 to the Rockaways bit, but I think you have a better chance of those that live east of the wye willing to take the Q22 from some point west, back east, than those that live west of the wye willing to take the Q22 from some point east, back west..... All that to basically say, I don't there there is a middle ground to be had.....

 

Save for summers, the Q22 is shunned west of B. 116th..... I cannot think of one area in the city where the local is shunned that badly by its residents... Not in Riverdale, not in Country Club, not in Eastern Queens (although the Q36 along LNP comes close)...

I'm not surprised. It would have to run to Neponsit then, especially since they have been the most vocal about weekend service previously. I don't see how you could serve both portions because it would be too much service, unless you had alternate buses serve each end. That would mean you would need a bus every hour for each part and I don't see the going for that. That's probably why they don't have any off-peak service. Not enough usage to justify that much service.

 

The seclusion makes sense though. Neponsit is very well-to-do like Fieldston so I don't see those folks touching a local bus living in such expensive homes. The express bus though they would use, but again not in large enough numbers for so much service.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[IAlam]

Where in the Rockaways did you say you'd have these buses running to?

 

1) How many people do you think are taking express buses along Woodhaven blvd off peak?

2) How much latent ridership do you believe exists in the Rockaways, off peak?

 

My answer to #1 is that the current headways of the QM15 are sufficient & my answer to #2 is little to none, quite honestly..... Running Qm15's to the Rockaways off peak will not come close to warranting more service for Woodhaven blvd. due to some influx of ridership in the Rockaways I don't believe exists.....

 

True I doubt there would be a huge influx but sharing seats on off peak buses are usually unfavorable. 

 

That's the tricky part. I wouldn't want it running to Neponsit or to Far Rockaway. I'm not sure what would be a good middle ground for the residents east and west and the beach goers. I think you either have to serve both ends or end it somewhere in the middle. The only issue with that is accessibility.

 

IMO I'd go for the current QM16 route due to the fact it already goes to Jacob Riis and because of the shuttle.

 

Any thoughts on making the Q49 run 24/7?

 

The reason why I'm asking is because besides the area along the Q33 route (82 Street and 35 Avenue), and by Northern, there's no other bus running during overnight hours in those areas. With the latter, there would be more connections to the subway.

 

The overnight bus would run every 40 or 60 minutes.

 

ANy overnight service on the Q49 should be extended via the Q19 to Flushing while it's not running. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

ANy overnight service on the Q49 should be extended via the Q19 to Flushing while it's not running. 

 

I don't agree with that. I think the Q49 should run on its own (current) route at all times, and not run to Flushing. Honestly, the Q66 should be enough, given that it runs every 30 minutes at night and runs close to the Q19 (east of 102 Street). The Q49 should not be involved with anything regarding Flushing.

 

If anything, the Q19 should be running longer. If you at the very least take resources from the Q48 and run a Q19/Q48 combo during the evening, more people would be served using a similar amount of resources currently used on the Q48 alone. The buses don't even have to run all the way to the Astoria Houses, they can terminate at the Astoria Boulevard Station. The M60 SBS currently does a poor job of providing overnight service to those areas because of the few stops made. From the subway, buses stop only at Steinway and at 77 Streets. It's not like it's the M60's job to make those intermediate stops anyway. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[B35 via Church]

Any overnight service on the Q49 should be extended via the Q19 to Flushing while it's not running. 

Negative.... The Q49 doesn't need to go to Flushing in any capacity....

 

No point in extending a feeder bus that already connects to a train that runs to Flushing.... It also connects to the Q66 mid-route on top of it....

 

I don't agree with that. I think the Q49 should run on its own (current) route at all times, and not run to Flushing. Honestly, the Q66 should be enough, given that it runs every 30 minutes at night and runs close to the Q19 (east of 102 Street). The Q49 should not be involved with anything regarding Flushing.

 

If anything, the Q19 should be running longer. If you at the very least take resources from the Q48 and run a Q19/Q48 combo during the evening, more people would be served using a similar amount of resources currently used on the Q48 alone. The buses don't even have to run all the way to the Astoria Houses, they can terminate at the Astoria Boulevard Station. The M60 SBS currently does a poor job of providing overnight service to those areas because of the few stops made. From the subway, buses stop only at Steinway and at 77 Streets. It's not like it's the M60's job to make those intermediate stops anyway. 

First part, yeah, agreed...

 

Second part.... Depends how much longer we're talking about, because Astoria Blvd, for long stretches, gets eerily quiet (quieter than normal major streets, I find).... I wouldn't go past 10pm for the Q19... As for the M60, I have no problem whatsoever with it not making anymore stops than it needs to along Astoria during later hours.....

[Gotham Bus Co.]

ANy overnight service on the Q49 should be extended via the Q19 to Flushing while it's not running. 

 

I would scrap the Q19 and extend the Q69 to Flushing.