Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Hound]

As for my commentary about that map itself.... Where do I begin...

 

- Astoria isn't that large (due south) & neither is Steinway (due west); Queensbridge pee-jay's aint in no Astoria!

 

- This is more of a question... What/where is the dividing line(s) that separate S. Ozone park & Ozone Park?

If anything, S. Ozone Park should be dubbed East Ozone Park...

 

- LMFAO @ Lindenwood being east of cross bay & south of the Belt :lol:

 

- And now that my a$$ has been laughed off, who wants to set up a GoFundMe for my funeral....

 

....because I'm *dead* @ Malba

 

 

....and what alternatives are these that will lead to the extinction of the Q28?

 

That route is going nowhere....

 

1 - I suppose, but part of the problem w/ the current Q31 is that terminal in the middle of nothing in-particular....

 

2- Not agreeing or disagreeing, but I'm not so sure those folks in Beechhurst would have a use for the Q31....

I like the idea of local service along 26th, but I would go about doing that with the Q16....

 

So this thread goes from improving bus service to what makes a neighborhood. Rochdale was never a neighborhood it was always a complex. (But let those signs on the Q85 and Q111 tell us different). Ever heard of Locust Manor? Even before that plane crash in 2001, I heard of Neponsit. It's between Roxbury and Belle Harbor. I think every borough has subsections. I think Pomonok is only used to refer to the PJ's (same as Electchester, Queensbridge and Ravenswood). I actually might make a thread about it

How about Bowery Bay & Dutch Kills on Queens map?

[Q43LTD]

How about Bowery Bay & Dutch Kills on Queens map?

I've seen Dutch Kills on the Queens map, but never Bowery Bay

[R188 7857]

I don't know if he's referring to the Q76 or what, but as far as alternatives (or lack thereof), that's one of the reasons the Q28 sees the loads that it does now..... The further you get away from Bell before you hit Northern, you practically have none.... The Q31 isn't an alternative to the Q28 & neither is the Q76.....

 

The Q28 is heralded over the Q13 because it's by far more direct....

The Q28 is slowed by Northern itself... The Q13 is slowed by Northern blvd & parts of Bell Blvd...

 

I had wanted move out to Bay Terrace, but I'm glad I thought better of it.... Although I like riding the Q28, I couldn't do the Flushing shuffle as part of any normal commute....

During the PM rush, the Q28 is slowed by 39th and Union as well. You would have cars stuck at that one intersection (39th and Union) waiting to turn, preventing buses to get to the bus stop (especially b/c the Q28 is all the way in the front). The traffic is so bad there that sometimes the cars block the intersection so cars can't even make turns. Then you get on to Union Street, where there are double parked police cars in front of the precinct. There's angled car parking on Union for a quarter of a block after 37th Av(why?), which messes up traffic even further (considering one lane is occupied by double parked police cars and another is occupied by cars waiting to turn left onto 37th) on the block before. Sometimes, the buses themselves cant squish through the cars and make the slight left because of the angled parking. They need to re-evaluate the routing and traffic patterns there, because it's definitely a big problem. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by R188 7857

[B35 via Church]

During the PM rush, the Q28 is slowed by 39th and Union as well. You would have cars stuck at that one intersection (39th and Union) waiting to turn, preventing buses to get to the bus stop (especially b/c the Q28 is all the way in the front). The traffic is so bad there that sometimes the cars block the intersection so cars can't even make turns. Then you get on to Union Street, where there are double parked police cars in front of the precinct. There's angled car parking on Union for a quarter of a block after 37th Av(why?), which messes up traffic even further (considering one lane is occupied by double parked police cars and another is occupied by cars waiting to turn left onto 37th) on the block before. Sometimes, the buses themselves cant squish through the cars and make the slight left because of the angled parking. They need to re-evaluate the routing and traffic patterns there, because it's definitely a big problem. 

Of course....

 

I didn't mention it because the shitshow that goes on (practically anywhere) in the heart of Flushing is a given....

[Q43LTD]

I remember once upon a time, the Q13, 16 and 28 made a right on Roosevelt instead of 39...

[B35 via Church]

I remember once upon a time, the Q13, 16 and 28 made a right on Roosevelt instead of 39...

How long ago was that?

[Q43LTD]

How long ago was that?

Probably until the early 2000's

[danielhg121]

Sometimes the Q13, Q16 and Q28 buses do make a right on roosevelt. Those buses either go back to the depot or make a right on main street and right on 39th avenue.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

[nuyorican]

I remember once upon a time, the Q13, 16 and 28 made a right on Roosevelt instead of 39...

 

There was never bus service on 39th ave in the 1990s or 2000s. The termials all ended and began on Roosevelt. 

[Q43LTD]

There was never bus service on 39th ave in the 1990s or 2000s. The termials all ended and began on Roosevelt.

I'm aware of that

[IAlam]

I remember once upon a time, the Q13, 16 and 28 made a right on Roosevelt instead of 39...

At night they make an additional stop at the n20G stop going outbound. 

[78 via Stew Leonards]

QM2 & 20 need Wall St variants. QM9 & 19 sound good.

QM20 also needs Saturday service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

QM2 & 20 need Wall St variants. QM9 & 19 sound good.

QM20 also needs Saturday service

Those that want the express bus to Wall Street transfer to the BxM18 buses from Riverdale. I do wonder though why Middle Village and Glendale has Downtown service, but not the areas served by the QM2/QM20. Middle Village and Glendale are smaller in comparison and have the train.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Those that want the express bus to Wall Street transfer to the BxM18 buses from Riverdale. I do wonder though why Middle Village and Glendale has Downtown service, but not the areas served by the QM2/QM20. Middle Village and Glendale are smaller in comparison and have the train.

Because they're used, lol. Although somewhat infrequent compared to the QM24 and QM34 in the morning, they still get good loads, most of it coming from the Eliot Avenue portion. That first bus from Wall Street gets a decent load too. Nobody wants to deal with the Q38 if they don't have too; it's infrequent and packed (sometimes flagging people). Without a doubt, the express buses get used more than the Q38 during the rush on Eliot.

 

The also only serves people who live in the southern tip of Middle Village away from the express bus. It is often more convenient than transferring to the or for Downtown destinations, or taking it up to Midtown. Most of the express bus ridership comes from Eliot Avenue anyway, once those buses make the turn onto Fresh Pond Road, not many are left (if there are). Similar situation in the morning, once those buses turn onto Eliot Avenue, they start picking up.

 

That's also partially why the QM11 is used. Those Q38s are unreliable, and buses are packed to/from the subway (and forget about the ride). Of course, the QM11 serves more than LeFrak City and Rego Park, but it's still a long ride to/from Downtown on the subway alone.

Edited December 10, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Because they're used, lol. Although somewhat infrequent compared to the QM24 and QM34 in the morning, they still get good loads, most of it coming from the Eliot Avenue portion. That first bus from Wall Street gets a decent load too. Nobody wants to deal with the Q38 if they don't have too; it's infrequent and packed (sometimes flagging people). Without a doubt, the express buses get used more than the Q38 during the rush on Eliot.

The also only serves people who live in the southern tip of Middle Village away from the express bus. It is often more convenient than transferring to the or for Downtown destinations, or taking it up to Midtown. Most of the express bus ridership comes from Eliot Avenue anyway, once those buses make the turn onto Fresh Pond Road, not many are left (if there are). Similar situation in the morning, once those buses turn onto Eliot Avenue, they start picking up.

That's also partially why the QM11 is used. Those Q38s are unreliable, and buses are packed to/from the subway (and forget about the ride). Of course, the QM11 serves more than LeFrak City and Rego Park, but it's still a long ride to/from Downtown on the subway alone.

That's not what I was getting at. I'm trying to understand how it was determined which areas in Queens got a Downtown express bus. The areas covered by the QM2/QM20 seem like a no-brainer given how far they are from any subway.

[Mtatransit]

Why does Rego Park and Forest Hills even have a express Bus?? Can't they reroute the QM15 to serve some portion of Rego Park, and the BM5 to serve some portion of Forest Hills?

Edited December 11, 2016 by Mtatransit

[MikeC]

Why does Rego Park and Forest Hills even have a express Bus?? Can't they reroute the QM15 to serve some portion of Rego Park, and the BM5 to serve some portion of Forest Hills?

The QM12 get used in the morning, some people prefer not to take the subway

That's not what I was getting at. I'm trying to understand how it was determined which areas in Queens got a Downtown express bus. The areas covered by the QM2/QM20 seem like a no-brainer given how far they are from any subway.

Downtown service should be tried on QM2/20 for sure. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Why does Rego Park and Forest Hills even have a express Bus?? Can't they reroute the QM15 to serve some portion of Rego Park, and the BM5 to serve some portion of Forest Hills?

Because they can afford it, and they are used (at least in the AM). There's just way too much express bus service in Rego Park when they are running, that's it. The QM15 and QM23 used to go up 63 Drive and then onto Queens Boulevard. It was deemed unnecessary since you had the QM10, QM12, and QM18 already pick up in that area going to similar areas of Manhattan. You don't need 5 routes picking up to go to 34 Street, and up 6 Avenue, that's overkill. Forest Hills and Rego Park should have buses, and I'd say they should express bus service 7 days a week. Have the off-peak QM4 make stops along Queens Boulevard and that should be sufficient. The QM18 can stick to serving Queens Boulevard, but the QM12 & QM42 should be the only route serving the residential portion of Rego Park towards Midtown. 

The BM5 already serves Forest Hills, on the western border.

 

As what would happen to the QM10/QM40, this is more or less what I would do in order to increase ridership using the same resources and similar runtime to that of the current QM10/QM40. The QM12 in the PM would be rerouted to serve 63 Road in the PM instead of the LIE.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aYkPipTXP-6ecAeEFmvofQ3-FpY&usp=sharing

 

 

That's not what I was getting at. I'm trying to understand how it was determined which areas in Queens got a Downtown express bus. The areas covered by the QM2/QM20 seem like a no-brainer given how far they are from any subway.

It was likely because the private bus companies at the time didn't have the capacity to do so or believe that it was not as important compared to other routes with heavier demand or something along those lines. Many of the Downtown expresses didn't even start until the 80s anyways, whereas the Midtown variants by then have been running for about 20 years by then (and they had to dedicate more buses to those).

 

Back then, when the QM21 was more of a powerhorse, there were plans on adding midday and weekend service to that route. They also proposed that for the QM24 (although the QM21 proposal died after being consolidated to MTA Bus).

That's not what I was getting at. I'm trying to understand how it was determined which areas in Queens got a Downtown express bus. The areas covered by the QM2/QM20 seem like a no-brainer given how far they are from any subway.

It was 

Edited December 11, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[B35 via Church]

Why does Rego Park and Forest Hills even have a express Bus?? Can't they reroute the QM15 to serve some portion of Rego Park, and the BM5 to serve some portion of Forest Hills?

Technically, the QM15 already serves a portion of Rego Park....

 

Anyway, last thing the Woodhaven routes should be doing is backtracking to serve Rego Park (the part north of Queens Blvd you're probably talking about) or Forest Hills.....

 

Because they can afford it, and they are used (at least in the AM). There's just way too much express bus service in Rego Park when they are running, that's it. The QM15 and QM23 used to go up 63 Drive and then onto Queens Boulevard. It was deemed unnecessary since you had the QM10, QM12, and QM18 already pick up in that area going to similar areas of Manhattan. You don't need 5 routes picking up to go to 34 Street, and up 6 Avenue, that's overkill. Forest Hills and Rego Park should have buses, and I'd say they should express bus service 7 days a week. Have the off-peak QM4 make stops along Queens Boulevard and that should be sufficient. The QM18 can stick to serving Queens Boulevard, but the QM12 & QM42 should be the only route serving the residential portion of Rego Park towards Midtown. 

The BM5 already serves Forest Hills, on the western border.

 

As what would happen to the QM10/QM40, this is more or less what I would do in order to increase ridership using the same resources and similar runtime to that of the current QM10/QM40. The QM12 in the PM would be rerouted to serve 63 Road in the PM instead of the LIE.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aYkPipTXP-6ecAeEFmvofQ3-FpY&usp=sharing

The only problem I have is the express bus network in Rego Park/Forest Hills; the issue isn't them actually having express buses (as the OP is implicating)....

 

 

As for Maspeth, I wouldn't divert/alter the QM10 to serve it.... I would try to phase out the QM10 with the QM12 (which is a separate issue)...

 

Anyway, if there's a high enough demand for an express in Maspeth, I would actually go about diverting the QM24 or QM25 (they would not get both lower & midtown Manhattan service).... From Glendale, one of the routes would continue running along Eliot to Woodhaven (the current routing) & the other would turn off Eliot at 69th.... Then the question would become, should it serve Maspeth via {continuing along 69th to QB}, or should it {serve 65th pl, and have it take that to QB}.....

Edited December 11, 2016 by B35 via Church

[Mtatransit]

I mean then there must be a way to serve Rego Park and Forest Hills using the same bus. Why have 3-4 buses serving a very similar area, when you can have 1 serving the Forest Hills/Rego Park Area. So maybe the QM10/11/12 could some how be altered.They could just have some QM4/44 run local on Queens Blvd till Woodhaven.

[bobtehpanda]

I mean then there must be a way to serve Rego Park and Forest Hills using the same bus. Why have 3-4 buses serving a very similar area, when you can have 1 serving the Forest Hills/Rego Park Area. So maybe the QM10/11/12 could some how be altered.They could just have some QM4/44 run local on Queens Blvd till Woodhaven.

 

Because no one wants to take a scenic tour of Queens on the express bus; people have things to do and places to be.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I mean then there must be a way to serve Rego Park and Forest Hills using the same bus. Why have 3-4 buses serving a very similar area, when you can have 1 serving the Forest Hills/Rego Park Area. So maybe the QM10/11/12 could some how be altered.They could just have some QM4/44 run local on Queens Blvd till Woodhaven.

It isn't feasible, since those QM4's and QM44's are often full by the time they reach Queens Boulevard (last pickup). The QM12 is often full by the time it passes 62 Drive in its way to Manhattan. Not only that, but Forest Hills and Rego Park are big areas too. How are you going to have one bus serving Woodhaven Boulevard, Queens Boulevard, 62 Drive/63 Road, and Yellowstone Boulevard altogether? You can't. The QM10 does not need to serve Rego Park, that I will say. 

 

The QM11 does not go to Midtown, so therefore, it should not be touched. It is a Downtown bus, and all the other buses are going to Midtown.

[IAlam]

Going back to the Downtown service for the QM2/20. The MTA claims that they don't have the funds, which I don't believe. However if a Downtown route is created it should be a combination of both the QM2/20 and not just one route.

[Mtatransit]

It isn't feasible, since those QM4's and QM44's are often full by the time they reach Queens Boulevard (last pickup). The QM12 is often full by the time it passes 62 Drive in its way to Manhattan. Not only that, but Forest Hills and Rego Park are big areas too. How are you going to have one bus serving Woodhaven Boulevard, Queens Boulevard, 62 Drive/63 Road, and Yellowstone Boulevard altogether? You can't. The QM10 does not need to serve Rego Park, that I will say.

 

The QM11 does not go to Midtown, so therefore, it should not be touched. It is a Downtown bus, and all the other buses are going to Midtown.

I guess if the buses are full then I guess there is no problem there. However does that apply to both AM and PM? PM loads seems lighter. Edited December 11, 2016 by Mtatransit

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As for Maspeth, I wouldn't divert/alter the QM10 to serve it.... I would try to phase out the QM10 with the QM12 (which is a separate issue)...

 

Anyway, if there's a high enough demand for an express in Maspeth, I would actually go about diverting the QM24 or QM25 (they would not get both lower & midtown Manhattan service).... From Glendale, one of the routes would continue running along Eliot to Woodhaven (the current routing) & the other would turn off Eliot at 69th.... Then the question would become, should it serve Maspeth via {continuing along 69th to QB}, or should it {serve 65th pl, and have it take that to QB}.....

I'm not so sure I agree with the QM24 or QM25 serving Maspeth.  It already has to serve Glendale and Middle Village, which makes the route long enough before going into Manhattan.  Aside from that, it sees good usage from both areas, especially Middle Village.  I wouldn't tinker with the route.  If anything it would be best to perhaps have some new express bus route start in Maspeth and continue via Eliot running through Middle Village.  You could have a set up where some form of super express serves Glendale and skips a part of Middle Village.  I think you would have to seriously see how much ridership could be obtained from Maspeth though before doing anything.  I just look at the BxM1 buses that serve Inwood. There is so much complaining by folks in Riverdale because of how long it takes to get to Midtown.  Many do everything possible to avoid those buses and take the BxM2 or stick with BxM1 buses that skip Inwood.  So then you have a situation where you're cutting into your core ridership base to serve another base that isn't nearly as big.

 

I also don't see the QM10 going anywhere since it serves LeFrak City, which apparently has done a complete renovation of its facilities, which could mean drawing in people with more income that can afford the express bus in the near future.  I would have to think that there's some agreement between the and that complex to have some express bus serve it, similar to Co-Op City and Parkchester with the BxM7 and BxM6 respectively.  Since I go to Parkchester on a weekly basis now, I've been analyzing their transportation and was surprised to see that they heavily protested having a bus removed from their community.

 

Source: http://www.bxtimes.com/stories/2011/1/bronxtimes-yn_bronx_front_page-52-parkchester.html

 

I could see LeFrak City doing something similar.  Too big of a complex to be underserved.

 

 

It was likely because the private bus companies at the time didn't have the capacity to do so or believe that it was not as important compared to other routes with heavier demand or something along those lines. Many of the Downtown expresses didn't even start until the 80s anyways, whereas the Midtown variants by then have been running for about 20 years by then (and they had to dedicate more buses to those).

 

Back then, when the QM21 was more of a powerhorse, there were plans on adding midday and weekend service to that route. They also proposed that for the QM24 (although the QM21 proposal died after being consolidated to MTA Bus).

It was 

I think the QM21 has been severely hurt by the economy.  It's one example of why the base fare should be kept at $6.50.  Raising it to $7.00 may have dire effects for a line like the QM21.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8