Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

I don't think the LIRR could increase service even if they wanted to at the moment.  It would be easier to add more QM3 service, which is something that has been pushed for in areas such as Douglaston... There was an article on it not that long ago...

 

http://bayside.patch.com/groups/politics-and-elections/p/northeast-queens-pols-call-for-increased-douglaston-bus-service

Right, which explains why there's an increase of ppl. using the QM3 (and making a push for increased QM3 service)....

 

Who wants to be subjected with inconsistent service on the Q12 (in their case), and how many more people are we gonna look to cram on the subway (esp. the 7)......

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

- The Q25/34 thing I'm simply not gonna speak on, because I think the 34 should remain.....

 

- I can agree with the Q20b serving mitchell gardens, but I don't agree with having it do the entire 34 north of northern....

 

I would have the 20b serving mitchell gardens, and then continue to have it serving college point (the neighborhood), except it would be via 20th av instead of 14th.... So the difference in service on the "Q20" would be one directly serving mitchell gardens, and the other serving union... As opposed to the difference being 14th av vs. 20th av like it currently is - Which is why 20b's get the shaft north of flushing (for the most part)..... There would be much less shafting going on if you have 20b's serving mitchell gardens (as you seem to realize)....

My mistake, I forgot to add that the Q20B would serve mitchell gardens then resume it's normal route once it hits Union St. So yeah, I would just reroute the Q20B via Mitchell Gardens .

 

 

The 20B on 20th instead of 14th makes sense, I guess. I don't know how many people from there utilize the subway there or go to connecting buses at all. If the Q20B was rerouted on 20th Avenue, would it make sense (to maintain service in the area) to have the Q76 rerouted on 14th Avenue instead, then down to 20th Avenue? It would give 14th Avenue weekend service and still maintain access to CP Shopping Center.

Edited June 15, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Q43LTD]

I don't know. I mean 14 Avenue hasn't have 7 days a week service since since the Q20 only went as far south as Flushing.

[B35 via Church]

My mistake, I forgot to add that the Q20B would serve mitchell gardens then resume it's normal route once it hits Union St. So yeah, I would just reroute the Q20B via Mitchell Gardens .

 

 

The 20B on 20th instead of 14th makes sense, I guess. I don't know how many people from there utilize the subway there or go to connecting buses at all. If the Q20B was rerouted on 20th Avenue, would it make sense (to maintain service in the area) to have the Q76 rerouted on 14th Avenue instead, then down to 20th Avenue? It would give 14th Avenue weekend service and still maintain access to CP Shopping Center.

Ok, so what serves Willets point blvd under your plan, since you'd discontinue the 34?

Unless it's something I missed in your post there.....

 

Also, I've thought about having 76's run along 14th (for simple coverage) back on RD, but my #1 concern was (and still is) the walk that would leave folks to getting to the actual stores in that shopping center (if you have it running along 14th, on down to its current terminal)..... patronage is ridiculously low on the current 20b, and that serves downtown flushing... One could only imagine how much the 76 would get used along that part of 14th, being that runs no where near the 7.... Having that "backdoor" its way to the mall, I think you'd have mall folks shunning the 76, and looking for other ways (from along the 76 route) to get to the mall... even if it means more than 2 buses, which you don't really want....

[BxM4Woodlawn]

I was just on a QM3 on Friday and Northern Blvd was a standstill from Queens Plaza to Broadway. other than that the ride was fine

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. Ok, so what serves Willets point blvd under your plan, since you'd discontinue the 34?

Unless it's something I missed in your post there.....

 

2. Also, I've thought about having 76's run along 14th (for simple coverage) back on RD, but my #1 concern was (and still is) the walk that would leave folks to getting to the actual stores in that shopping center (if you have it running along 14th, on down to its current terminal)..... patronage is ridiculously low on the current 20b, and that serves downtown flushing... One could only imagine how much the 76 would get used along that part of 14th, being that runs no where near the 7.... Having that "backdoor" its way to the mall, I think you'd have mall folks shunning the 76, and looking for other ways (from along the 76 route) to get to the mall... even if it means more than 2 buses, which you don't really want....

1. I was planning on not really having anything in terms of local service (just keep the QM20 there as the sole service), because there would only be one stop that would have no bus within a 2 block radius (I'm counting each block there as 2 blocks, because it's significantly wide between blocks to equal two). The 147 Street stop would have no bus stopping there anymore. It's equidistance from 150 and Union Street.

 

2. Eh, now that I look at it, I can see why Q20B service in that area is ridiculously low. Doesn't seem like the type of people who would use the bus (they seem more car centric). However, I think something should serve the Whitepoint shopping center and North Side Plaza. Maybe an extension of the Q76 (as it is) to 14 Avenue would be all that's needed as coverage in that section.

[NewFlyer 230]

1. I was planning on not really having anything in terms of local service (just keep the QM20 there as the sole service), because there would only be one stop that would have no bus within a 2 block radius (I'm counting each block there as 2 blocks, because it's significantly wide between blocks to equal two). The 147 Street stop would have no bus stopping there anymore. It's equidistance from 150 and Union Street.

 

2. Eh, now that I look at it, I can see why Q20B service in that area is ridiculously low. Doesn't seem like the type of people who would use the bus (they seem more car centric). However, I think something should serve the Whitepoint shopping center and North Side Plaza. Maybe an extension of the Q76 (as it is) to 14 Avenue would be all that's needed as coverage in that section.

There is some people who actually walk to the Q25 frto 14th Ave. The Q20B in College Point gets low usage which can be due to the fact it doesn't to run past the shopping center. The Q76 via 14th street will be worst because it does not serve Flushing and if the Q20B barely gets people up there the Q76 most likely will have no one. I think it will overall hurt the Q76 since people do take it to get to the mall from Whitestone and Bayside.

 

As far as the Q34 via Mitchell Gardens I've always wanted the Q34 to go because it screws up service on Kissena Blvd and Parsons especially during off peak hours. North of Flushing it gets used a little bit more than the Q20B in College Point but I still don't see a long line of people ever waiting for the Q34 in flushing towards Whitestone. How the Q34 screws up service is because more than half the time Q34 bunches with the Q25 anyway. Rush hour service on the Q25 is crap because most of the time the Q25 and Q25LTD runs at the same time to allow run Q34 to run without being useless but it comes back to back with the Q25 and Q25LTD and then you now have to wait about 10 minutes again for the next bus to come. During the evening the Q25 runs every 30 minutes so the Q34 can run reducing wait times to 15 minutes but College Point buses in Flushing gets packed while whitestone buses are nearly empty. As for people along Willets Point Blvd it isn't that bad only three stops and people can easily just walk over to the Q44 and Q20 on Union and they could walk over to the Q15/A on 150th street.

Edited June 17, 2014 by NewFlyer 230

[Lennyj17]

I agree... I never understood the point of the Q34.... Always thought it was totally useless between Jamaica and Flushing unless somehow they reworked it to where all Q25 ran LTD during the Q34s operating hours.... But I always thought Q34 could be totally scrapped replaced by Q25 between Jamaica/Flushing and bring back the Q14 run it via the Q34 from Flushing to Willets Point Blvd then via its old route/now Q15A to Beechurst..

 

It would need to be the Q14 again because keeping it Q15A would be too confusing having different terminals in Flushing for what essentially is supposed to be the same route with different branches.  

Edited June 18, 2014 by Lennyj17

[bobtehpanda]

I agree... I never understood the point of the Q34.... Always thought it was totally useless between Jamaica and Flushing unless somehow they reworked it to where all Q25 ran LTD during the Q34s operating hours.... But I always thought Q34 could be totally scrapped replaced by Q25 between Jamaica/Flushing and bring back the Q14 run it via the Q34 from Flushing to Willets Point Blvd then via its old route/now Q15A to Beechurst..

 

It would need to be the Q14 again because keeping it Q15A would be too confusing having different terminals in Flushing for what essentially is supposed to be the same route with different branches.  

 

Once upon a time, it was probably the case that the Q25 didn't need all the service that Kissena/Parsons warranted. Bus routes can stay the same for very long periods of time.

[Lennyj17]

Once upon a time, it was probably the case that the Q25 didn't need all the service that Kissena/Parsons warranted. Bus routes can stay the same for very long periods of time.

 

Parsons/Kissena routes are so unique in the fact that in both direction end or pass through Queens busiest Central Business Districts. At one point I was trying to calculate where the Rush Hour flows changes course along the line (to/from Jamaica to/from Flushing). Naturally one would think the change over would be at the HHE but think it may be somewhat closer to Jewel. 

 

Anyway the Q25/Q25LTD along with the Q17/17LTD could totally handle Kissena / Parsons alone.... Q25's can be spread out more to have an even balance with the LTD.. No one will notice the loss of the 34 South of Flushing. 

Edited June 19, 2014 by Lennyj17

[bobtehpanda]

Parsons/Kissena routes are so unique in the fact that in both direction end or pass through Queens busiest Central Business Districts. At one point I was trying to calculate where the Rush Hour flows changes course along the line (to/from Jamaica to/from Flushing). Naturally one would think the change over would be at the HHE but think it may be somewhat closer to Jewel. 

 

Anyway the Q25/Q25LTD along with the Q17/17LTD could totally handle Kissena / Parsons alone.... Q25's can be spread out more to have an even balance with the LTD.. No one will notice the loss of the 34 South of Flushing. 

 

Advocating for service cuts is not exactly something we should be doing (particularly in a situation of economic recovery), particularly when this cut doesn't really benefit anybody and only hurts those along the Q34. The Q14 had much worse headways than the Q34 so service would be decreased along a new Q14/34, and on top of that the Q34 runs would not likely all be converted to Q25s, so Kissena and Parsons would receive less service at well. Who does this actually end up working out for?

[Lennyj17]

Advocating for service cuts is not exactly something we should be doing (particularly in a situation of economic recovery), particularly when this cut doesn't really benefit anybody and only hurts those along the Q34. The Q14 had much worse headways than the Q34 so service would be decreased along a new Q14/34, and on top of that the Q34 runs would not likely all be converted to Q25s, so Kissena and Parsons would receive less service at well. Who does this actually end up working out for?

 

You keep the Q34's headways incorporate that into the Q14...it's not that hard. Not to mention the Q34 north of Flushing might have more service than it actually needs. 

 

I have seen totally empty Q34's on Kissena because a gang of Q17/25's were a mere seconds ahead of it .... Again who would the loss of the Q34 south of Flushing really be affecting... NO ONE!

 

You reschedule the Q25 Locals to replace the Q34... Q25 Local and LTD don't need to depart Jamaica and Flushing at the exact same time as they do now. I have actually been in a situation where the Q25 Local and LTD both left Jamaica at the same time as each other again got to Flushing with each other. No time was saved by being on the LTD. 

 

If the Q65 local/ltd can handle 164 St just fine alone, I'm sure Q17/25 local/LTD is more than enough for Kissena/Parsons.

[bobtehpanda]

You keep the Q34's headways incorporate that into the Q14...it's not that hard. Not to mention the Q34 north of Flushing might have more service than it actually needs. 

 

I have seen totally empty Q34's on Kissena because a gang of Q17/25's were a mere seconds ahead of it .... Again who would the loss of the Q34 south of Flushing really be affecting... NO ONE!

 

You reschedule the Q25 Locals to replace the Q34... Q25 Local and LTD don't need to depart Jamaica and Flushing at the exact same time as they do now. I have actually been in a situation where the Q25 Local and LTD both left Jamaica at the same time as each other again got to Flushing with each other. No time was saved by being on the LTD. 

 

If the Q65 local/ltd can handle 164 St just fine alone, I'm sure Q17/25 local/LTD is more than enough for Kissena/Parsons.

 

You still haven't answered the question of, "Who does this actually benefit?" All I see in this proposal is service cuts, and an argument that service could be improved with better scheduling and less bunching (which on Kissena is always going to happen, and is also something that could happen with or without the Q34.)

 

We had an uproar when the Q79 and Q75 were cut, and those were much less busy than the Q34, so imagine the kind of press coverage that would happen if Kissena/Parsons lost a route.

[Lennyj17]

Ummm. It benefits the Q34 ridership north of Flushing because service would far more reliable by not having your bus, which you only need to get you to the , having to come/go all the way to from Jamaica where its really not needed. I don't see Kissena Parsons getting upset over this as long as Q25s are there to replace the gaps....that all Q34s are between Jamaica and Flushing, additional Q25 Locals.

 

Not to mention it balances out the Q25 north of Flushing as well not having the 15 min gaps between services where the Q34 fits in, then 2 Q25s showing up together...

Edited June 23, 2014 by Lennyj17

[NewFlyer 230]

The Q34 doesn't seem benefit a lot of people at all. The Q25 and Q65 can have long lines of people waiting for the bus. Even after one has just passed people are starting to make a line. It just isn't the case with the Q34. You may see a few people but not to the point where the bus is SRO. The Q34 empties out at Roosevelt Ave and the only reason it may leave with a good amount of people is because they are getting off along Linden Place after that it just a few people and it's not like Linden Place and a long ways from the Q34. On weekends there doesn't not seem to be a problem at all. The only reason why there are Q34 short turns at Main St is because it was suppose to make up for the lost from the Q14 and they are never crowded unless it picks up people heading to Flushing on Linden Place or Union Street.

The Q25's headways need to be adjusted. It should be 8 minutes for local and 8 minutes for LTD instead of 10 for local and 8 for LTD which come together anyway.

[Q17via188th]

A few proposals:

 

1.     Q34/25/ proposed 14: Reroute the 34 so it goes to LaGuardia via Northern/Astoria/Ditmars Blvd, nonstop between Flushing and the airport. Also, have the route run 7 days a week as a LTD-only service, like the Q44. The MTA has been putting a lot of emphasis on LGA lately, and this will provide a relatively quick link b/w Jamaica and LGA. It will make all the current Q25 LTD stops b/w Flushing and Jamaica, while the Q25 LTD itself will be removed. To account for the decrease in 25 service north of Flushing, add CP-Flushing short turns during rush hours. The new Q34 will help out Parsons/Kissena on weekends especially, where the Q25 has gained a significant amount of ridership.

       The new Q14 (or some other number if it hurts the emotions of Whitestone residents) will replace the Q20b, part of the Q34, and the old Q74, continuing as a weekday-only route. It shall run from Kew Gardens to College Point via Vleigh Pl and Main St south of Roosevelt. North of Roosevelt, it will follow the current Q34 route until 28 Av and Union St, and then follow the current Q20b route. Headways will be reduced, with short turns at Willets Point Blvd to replicate current Q34 frequencies. The added service should slightly remedy the crowded Q44 and Q46.

 

2.     Q26 extension: First of all, if anything, I feel that the Q26 should share its first stop with the Q27 to increase awareness that this route actually exists. It shall go down Kissena, and then Sanford to Parsons. I would extend the Q26 to Queens Village to support the overcrowded Q27 and cover some more uncharted territory. It would continue down Francis Lewis, 73rd Ave to serve Oakland Gdns apartments, Bell Blvd, Union Tpke, and then Springfield down to Jamaica Ave. This is to provide Oakland Gdns residents easier access to Flushing, make the Q26 more relevant, and give a slightly faster alternative to the 27. Midday service should be added again, and maybe even weekend service.

 

3.     Q64 extension: I know this has been mentioned several times, but the 64 could gain a lot more riders extended to 64 Ave/188 St via 73 Ave and 188 st. Not only will it cover up some transportation gaps and help out the Q46, but it will give FM residents and shoppers a one-seat ride to the EFMR station. Furthermore, the FM shopping mall is expanding with a new commercial building under construction, so this extension would add greater business potential as well. 

 

4.     Q31 earlier service: This is more out of personal bias, but I think Jamaica-bound buses should begin 20 or 40 minutes earlier. I usually take the 6:30 Q30 bus in FM to get to school, and these buses are always crowded, often to the point where new passengers along Utopia cannot board. Earlier Q31 service should alleviate this overcrowding. Bayside-bound Q31s already begin at 5:40 AM, while Jamaica-bound 31s, where early morning demand is greater, begin at 6:20 AM.

 

These are my 2 cents. I know the new Q34 could be detrimental to the Q48 and the Q64 extension could bring a toll on express bus ridership, so I know these proposals are flawed. I'm open for criticism, and I'll gladly bump this thread.

[bobtehpanda]

A few proposals:

 

1.     Q34/25/ proposed 14: Reroute the 34 so it goes to LaGuardia via Northern/Astoria/Ditmars Blvd, nonstop between Flushing and the airport. Also, have the route run 7 days a week as a LTD-only service, like the Q44. The MTA has been putting a lot of emphasis on LGA lately, and this will provide a relatively quick link b/w Jamaica and LGA. It will make all the current Q25 LTD stops b/w Flushing and Jamaica, while the Q25 LTD itself will be removed. To account for the decrease in 25 service north of Flushing, add CP-Flushing short turns during rush hours. The new Q34 will help out Parsons/Kissena on weekends especially, where the Q25 has gained a significant amount of ridership.

       The new Q14 (or some other number if it hurts the emotions of Whitestone residents) will replace the Q20b, part of the Q34, and the old Q74, continuing as a weekday-only route. It shall run from Kew Gardens to College Point via Vleigh Pl and Main St south of Roosevelt. North of Roosevelt, it will follow the current Q34 route until 28 Av and Union St, and then follow the current Q20b route. Headways will be reduced, with short turns at Willets Point Blvd to replicate current Q34 frequencies. The added service should slightly remedy the crowded Q44 and Q46.

 

2.     Q26 extension: First of all, if anything, I feel that the Q26 should share its first stop with the Q27 to increase awareness that this route actually exists. It shall go down Kissena, and then Sanford to Parsons. I would extend the Q26 to Queens Village to support the overcrowded Q27 and cover some more uncharted territory. It would continue down Francis Lewis, 73rd Ave to serve Oakland Gdns apartments, Bell Blvd, Union Tpke, and then Springfield down to Jamaica Ave. This is to provide Oakland Gdns residents easier access to Flushing, make the Q26 more relevant, and give a slightly faster alternative to the 27. Midday service should be added again, and maybe even weekend service.

 

3.     Q64 extension: I know this has been mentioned several times, but the 64 could gain a lot more riders extended to 64 Ave/188 St via 73 Ave and 188 st. Not only will it cover up some transportation gaps and help out the Q46, but it will give FM residents and shoppers a one-seat ride to the EFMR station. Furthermore, the FM shopping mall is expanding with a new commercial building under construction, so this extension would add greater business potential as well. 

 

4.     Q31 earlier service: This is more out of personal bias, but I think Jamaica-bound buses should begin 20 or 40 minutes earlier. I usually take the 6:30 Q30 bus in FM to get to school, and these buses are always crowded, often to the point where new passengers along Utopia cannot board. Earlier Q31 service should alleviate this overcrowding. Bayside-bound Q31s already begin at 5:40 AM, while Jamaica-bound 31s, where early morning demand is greater, begin at 6:20 AM.

 

These are my 2 cents. I know the new Q34 could be detrimental to the Q48 and the Q64 extension could bring a toll on express bus ridership, so I know these proposals are flawed. I'm open for criticism, and I'll gladly bump this thread.

 

Well, if we ended up doing the Q34/23/14 thing you described, we could probably just chuck out the Q48 without much harm done.

 

The Q26 should really run the Q27's route in Flushing, although the width of Holly Av and preexisting congestion may not allow for it.

 

73rd and 188th isn't exactly a great place to terminate, if you're going to terminate in that area; might as well make it turn and terminate at 188th/HHE, since the mall and movie complex there is what most people going there are looking for. However, the Q64 is already pretty full, so whether or not it needs more riders is debatable.

Edited July 12, 2014 by bobtehpanda

[bobtehpanda]

I don't see the need for the Q34 to LaGuardia Airport! I would advise a new Q71 +SELECT BUS SERVICE+ route which would service all of the LaGuardia Airport terminals, and travel via the Van Wyck Expressway to Jamaica, Merrick Blvd/Archer Avenue stopping only at Horace Harding Expressway, Jewel Avenue, Hillside Avenue, Sutphin/Hillside and all Q44 LIMITED bus stops to Merrick Blvd. This new service would run 24 Hours a Day, 7 Days a Week, at 10 minute headways on Weekdays and Saturdays, 12 minute headways on Sundays, 12 to 15 minute headways during Evenings and 30 minute headways during Late Nights.

 

I would strongly advise that the Q48 run 24 hour service (at All Times) as to meet the demands in Downtown Flushing.

 

Then regarding the Q26, I would extend it to Queens Village LIRR Station via Francis Lewis Blvd, 73rd Avenue, Bell Blvd, Union Turnpike and Springfield Blvd with service at All Times. The Q27 LIMITED can be revised Cambria Heights bound to match the Flushing bound LIMITED stops (especially with my advice to extend the route to Rosedale, 148th Drive/Francis Lewis Blvd), along with LIMITED-STOP SERVICE 7 Days a Week between 6 AM and 10 PM (I would beef up service on the Weekends to meet the 5 minute headway guideline).

 

The terminal for the extended Q64 would be the old Q75 terminal in Oakland Gardens (mainly to replace the service)

 

Your described route wouldn't pick up many people, simply because there's not that much around the Van Wyck... There's also not nearly enough demand between LGA and JFK to justify those kinds of headways in addition to the Q44, Q25/34, Q65, etc.

 

The Q48 carries air because it is a dinky little shuttle that can't compete with taxis or cars (which would drop anyone off where they wanted to go, and only take 5 minutes to get to Main and Roosevelt). Sure, a Flushing-LGA shuttle sounds nice, but the hotels there all have private van services or are quite far from Main and Roosevelt, and transferring from another bus would be terrible due to the congestion on the sidewalks in Main St.

 

If people want to bring back the Q75, bring back the Q75. The Q64 should really be left alone, since it already has trouble accommodating what it does during the peak at times.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Not a route proposal...BUT

 

Swap depots between College Point and Casey Stengel. What I mean is...let the CS staff and routes move into the CP building, and let CP's staff routes and MCIs move into the CS building. It's basically known now that the MTA wants CP to be mostly or all express which puts the CNG system that NYCDOT, QSC and the MTA invested in at CP to waste, but CS is 100% local and they could keep putting the CP CNG system and buses to work for years while CP as it is now is gonna need less and less CNG, since they're supposed to get the QM24/25 while all the local routes except the ones actually going to College Point and Whitestone (maybe the Q66 too, that's gonna be a mess for LGA to handle at least on its own) get moved to LGA. Just an idea...

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Not a route proposal...BUT

 

Swap depots between College Point and Casey Stengel. What I mean is...let the CS staff and routes move into the CP building, and let CP's staff routes and MCIs move into the CS building. It's basically known now that the MTA wants CP to be mostly or all express which puts the CNG system that NYCDOT, QSC and the MTA invested in at CP to waste, but CS is 100% local and they could keep putting the CP CNG system and buses to work for years while CP as it is now is gonna need less and less CNG, since they're supposed to get the QM24/25 while all the local routes except the ones actually going to College Point and Whitestone (maybe the Q66 too, that's gonna be a mess for LGA to handle at least on its own) get moved to LGA. Just an idea...

 

Can CP handle articulated buses?

[Fresh Pond]

Did you really just necropost something from 2 years ago...

[Q43LTD]

Did you really just necropost something from 2 years ago...

I believe he did. And none of his ideas make any sense

[NewFlyer 230]

Can CP handle articulated buses?

No not yet but the lot is big enough for them. I'm pretty sure all depots will be fixed up and articulated bus ready in the future.

[qjtransitmaster]

I believe he did. And none of his ideas make any sense

If you say nothing he will go away.

[B35 via Church]

F*** it, I have an idea.... And I'm gonna incorporate it into my Queens bus map whenever I get around to it.....

 

We've had some good discussions involving the Q48 in the past, and this just hit me like a ton of bricks.... For long, I've been saying that the Q48 sees its most consistent usage b/w Flushing & Corona proper...... So instead of having the Q48 carry air past Corona NB, and instead of an older idea I had that entailed taking the 48 out of LGA & running it along 23rd av in E. Elmhurst, to end w/ the Q69 [which wouldn't yield too many more riders anyway].... The fact of the matter is, ppl. coming from airport property (majorically speaking) don't rely on the Q48 to get to the - They rely on the (now) Q70, or the Q72.....

 

I would simply combine the Corona - Flushing portion of the 48, into the Q19.... Meaning, instead of the 19 continuing along Astoria (where it turns into northern), turn buses down 108th to Roosevelt & have it serve flushing from there.....

 

So the Q19 would run from the Astoria Houses (which would be an extension on that end) to Flushing (via 108th, via Roosevelt, which would be a diversion)..... You just might have a few more ppl. less willing to cram onto Q66's @ Flushing, have this happen.....

Edited July 20, 2014 by B35 via Church