NewFlyer 230 Posted March 4, 2014 Share #3251 Posted March 4, 2014 Exactly why BP has no choice but to take some. Artics. Only the Q10 needs them. The MTA thinks the Q6 could use them but it's going to end up the same way as CS. They said the Q12 as well but then it doesn't have the ridership for them. At least BP half their routes can use them and then the hybrids can go to LGA and bump the RTS's to scrap or maybe around that time they will be converted and go to ECH and retire the Orion V's. Back when the Q11 was the only local on Woodhaven it could have went on that route but the Q21 killed that. The Q52 may have a chance even though the Q53 could use them more. That is not happening since it's CP's with all those express routes The Q10 and the Q52 don't require 74 buses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted March 4, 2014 Share #3252 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Im gonna look into the story as to why BP "rejected" Artics... I'll have more on it soon.... It would make sense to lump them at JFK tho being that JFK routes are currently transitioning to Artic Service... And those D60HF they have are on they last leg anyway It wouldn't. Yes, they are to replace the D60HFs, however, the most they'd really need is 40 buses as the Q10 is what....25-28 buses? More or less in that regard. After the schedule adjustments for the coming picks, the Q10 will be adjusted to run only articulated buses, which will reduce the amount of buses needed for the line. They still haven't figured out the workaround with the Q6 as of yet in Jamaica and there's no other articulated route at JFK that would warrant artics. Edited March 4, 2014 by Cait Sith 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 4, 2014 Share #3253 Posted March 4, 2014 It wouldn't. Yes, they are to replace the D60HFs, however, the most they'd really need is 40 buses as the Q10 is what....25-28 buses? More or less in that regard. After the schedule adjustments for the coming picks, the Q10 will be adjusted to run only articulated buses, which will reduce the amount of buses needed for the line. They still haven't figured out the workaround with the Q6 as of yet in Jamaica and there's no other articulated route at JFK that would warrant artics. I don't understand what's the problem. The Q6 should terminate at the Q17's last stop before Jamaica. The Q17 could either take the Q6's spot or terminate on the other side of Jamaica where the first stop is. Honestly I don't believe the Q6 needs Artics. I've been using that route and I've noticed that it bunches and it's sometimes comes late. If the Q6 went to the terminals then it could use them since there is no direct route from Jamaica that goes to JFK besides that Airtrain, 165th for the Q3 or the J to the Q10. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted March 4, 2014 Share #3254 Posted March 4, 2014 I don't understand what's the problem. The Q6 should terminate at the Q17's last stop before Jamaica. The Q17 could either take the Q6's spot or terminate on the other side of Jamaica where the first stop is. Honestly I don't believe the Q6 needs Artics. I've been using that route and I've noticed that it bunches and it's sometimes comes late. If the Q6 went to the terminals then it could use them since there is no direct route from Jamaica that goes to JFK besides that Airtrain, 165th for the Q3 or the J to the Q10. I think it's a matter of designation since that other side of the bus terminal has always been an MTA Bus terminal. I don't think they would lump the Q17 with that stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 4, 2014 Share #3255 Posted March 4, 2014 Exactly why BP has no choice but to take some. Artics. Only the Q10 needs them. The MTA thinks the Q6 could use them but it's going to end up the same way as CS. They said the Q12 as well but then it doesn't have the ridership for them. At least BP half their routes can use them and then the hybrids can go to LGA and bump the RTS's to scrap or maybe around that time they will be converted and go to ECH and retire the Orion V's. Back when the Q11 was the only local on Woodhaven it could have went on that route but the Q21 killed that. The Q52 may have a chance even though the Q53 could use them more. That is not happening since it's CP's with all those express routes The Q10 and the Q52 don't require 74 buses. Umm, not really... http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/42657-artics-on-the-q11/ It has appeared for a brief time in September, and can appear once in a while, and both routes get lodged down, even with the 21 lodged down. As for the Q53, wait til it goes back to LGA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3256 Posted March 5, 2014 Well when the MTA bus is finally merged I wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of the Q21 and Q103. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK Depot Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3257 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I think it's a matter of designation since that other side of the bus terminal has always been an MTA Bus terminal. I don't think they would lump the Q17 with that stop.The main issue with the Q6 or any other route to 165th.. Is 165th exact... Can Artics fit in 165th ? Answer is YES... I've seen it myself testing... Is it a tough fit.. Yes So running them on the Q6 is an issue... They haven't found a decent spot to terminate the Artics safely... Me personally I said the Q60 should've had the Artics but I keep hearing that a certain parts of the route on Queens Blvd ridership gets scarce... But I would still run 60 footers up Queens Blvd instead of killing Hybrids all day... IMO Edited March 5, 2014 by JFK Depot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3258 Posted March 5, 2014 Well when the MTA bus is finally merged I wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of the Q21 and Q103. They wont The Q21 is a supplement to the Q11, and eliminating it would mean less of a catchment area to absorb riders from points north (especially since on sunday, a few people who ride it south of Piktin are people who go into the city, so people aren't gonna take the Q41 to the going through brooklyn, because this is Lindenwood we are talking about. Some may just be going to points north on Woodhaven Blvd for another bus, so it's best to not meddle with that. The Q103 is just experiencing a "thrive" (but not of great extremity) in ridership, taking away service would be very detrimental for it, and for the routes around the area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3259 Posted March 5, 2014 They wont The Q21 is a supplement to the Q11, and eliminating it would mean less of a catchment area to absorb riders from points north (especially since on sunday, a few people who ride it south of Piktin are people who go into the city, so people aren't gonna take the Q41 to the going through brooklyn, because this is Lindenwood we are talking about. Some may just be going to points north on Woodhaven Blvd for another bus, so it's best to not meddle with that. The Q103 is just experiencing a "thrive" (but not of great extremity) in ridership, taking away service would be very detrimental for it, and for the routes around the area. I believe the DOT before the MTA took over said they wanted to eliminated the Q34, Q21 and Q103 and add Artics to the Q9. They also mentioned fixing up the Q9A or Q89 and renaming some routes. I really don't see the difference in operating the Q21 or Q41 below Rockaway and Liberty Ave. They pretty much run the same route in Howard Beach or Lindenwood. The reason why I always talk about eliminating the Q21 altogether is because it runs 30 minutes all day and 60 during some parts of the day. That's not really encouraging any new people to use it. Basically what people would do is take what comes first similar to the Q25 and Q34. The Q34 runs every 20-24 minutes below Flushing during rush hour and 12 minutes during off peak. The NYC DOT was thinking of getting rid of that route altogether hoping that the MTA would revise the Q14 route in Whitestone. My point is why continue to run routes who basically steal ridership from other routes and usually have bad headways. Even in some case like the Q103 that runs by itself. It has the lowest usage out of any route in the city beside the Bx24. Yeah the MTA tries to run it more frequently but it suffers because routing it has that's why getting rid of it is better. In the future I can see it being a rush hour only route like the Q26 or Bx20. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3260 Posted March 5, 2014 I believe the DOT before the MTA took over said they wanted to eliminated the Q34, Q21 and Q103 and add Artics to the Q9. They also mentioned fixing up the Q9A or Q89 and renaming some routes. I really don't see the difference in operating the Q21 or Q41 below Rockaway and Liberty Ave. They pretty much run the same route in Howard Beach or Lindenwood. The reason why I always talk about eliminating the Q21 altogether is because it runs 30 minutes all day and 60 during some parts of the day. That's not really encouraging any new people to use it. Basically what people would do is take what comes first similar to the Q25 and Q34. The Q34 runs every 20-24 minutes below Flushing during rush hour and 12 minutes during off peak. The NYC DOT was thinking of getting rid of that route altogether hoping that the MTA would revise the Q14 route in Whitestone. My point is why continue to run routes who basically steal ridership from other routes and usually have bad headways. Even in some case like the Q103 that runs by itself. It has the lowest usage out of any route in the city beside the Bx24. Yeah the MTA tries to run it more frequently but it suffers because routing it has that's why getting rid of it is better. In the future I can see it being a rush hour only route like the Q26 or Bx20. Bravo sir well said. Duplicate lines are just pointless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3261 Posted March 5, 2014 I believe the DOT before the MTA took over said they wanted to eliminated the Q34, Q21 and Q103 and add Artics to the Q9. They also mentioned fixing up the Q9A or Q89 and renaming some routes. I really don't see the difference in operating the Q21 or Q41 below Rockaway and Liberty Ave. They pretty much run the same route in Howard Beach or Lindenwood. The reason why I always talk about eliminating the Q21 altogether is because it runs 30 minutes all day and 60 during some parts of the day. That's not really encouraging any new people to use it. Basically what people would do is take what comes first similar to the Q25 and Q34. The Q34 runs every 20-24 minutes below Flushing during rush hour and 12 minutes during off peak. The NYC DOT was thinking of getting rid of that route altogether hoping that the MTA would revise the Q14 route in Whitestone. My point is why continue to run routes who basically steal ridership from other routes and usually have bad headways. Even in some case like the Q103 that runs by itself. It has the lowest usage out of any route in the city beside the Bx24. Yeah the MTA tries to run it more frequently but it suffers because routing it has that's why getting rid of it is better. In the future I can see it being a rush hour only route like the Q26 or Bx20. The Q21 and Q11 are not *duplicates*, but branches. The Q11 doesn't nearly justify headways that are twice what they are now, so the Q21 helps reduce local pressure on Woodhaven without overserving the Q11 service area. Saying the Q21 and Q41 are useless because they happen to run in the same local area is just being disingenous. They serve different commute markets completely. By this logic, the Q88 and Q27 shouldn't share an outer segment, and neither should the Q18 and Q102. If anything, of the two the Q41 should be cut back to Rockaway Blvd , but it also allows a one-seat ride to Jamaica's bus hub. This was probably true of the Q25 and Q34 at one point. Is it still true? Maybe not. But changes to the route shouldn't be made just because a branch is getting less service than the trunk. After all, the MTA is very cut-happy and not really in the business of running empty buses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3262 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) The main issue with the Q6 or any other route to 165th.. Is 165th exact... Can Artics fit in 165th ? Answer is YES... I've seen it myself testing... Is it a tough fit.. Yes So running them on the Q6 is an issue... They haven't found a decent spot to terminate the Artics safely... Me personally I said the Q60 should've had the Artics but I keep hearing that a certain parts of the route on Queens Blvd ridership gets scarce... But I would still run 60 footers up Queens Blvd instead of killing Hybrids all day... IMO That's not the main issue. Yes, they fit into the terminal, but the ISSUE is the amount of ROOM they leave when they are IN the terminal and how they back OUT of the terminal. Put two artics in that terminal and I guarantee you that there will be problems. They've tested the artics all around the Q6 and I've personally seen 5493 testing along the route myself, hence why they extended pretty much all the stops on the Q6. Edited March 5, 2014 by Cait Sith 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK Depot Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3263 Posted March 5, 2014 That's not the main issue. Yes, they fit into the terminal, but the ISSUE is the amount of ROOM they leave when they are IN the terminal and how they back OUT of the terminal. Put two artics in that terminal and I guarantee you that there will be problems. They've tested the artics all around the Q6 and I've personally seen 5493 testing along the route myself, hence why they extended pretty much all the stops on the Q6. Lol we just said the same thing basically... I explained it differently but basically same thing The Artics CAN fit yes... We both agree on that... We both seen it for our own 2 eyes that it can... What I said was they CANT find a spot on the 165th end to displace Q6 passengers safely w/o interfering with other TA bus stops 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted March 5, 2014 Share #3264 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) The Q21 and Q11 are not *duplicates*, but branches. The Q11 doesn't nearly justify headways that are twice what they are now, so the Q21 helps reduce local pressure on Woodhaven without overserving the Q11 service area. Saying the Q21 and Q41 are useless because they happen to run in the same local area is just being disingenous. They serve different commute markets completely. By this logic, the Q88 and Q27 shouldn't share an outer segment, and neither should the Q18 and Q102. If anything, of the two the Q41 should be cut back to Rockaway Blvd , but it also allows a one-seat ride to Jamaica's bus hub. This was probably true of the Q25 and Q34 at one point. Is it still true? Maybe not. But changes to the route shouldn't be made just because a branch is getting less service than the trunk. After all, the MTA is very cut-happy and not really in the business of running empty buses. Really now do tell how a 30 min bus is useful to lindenwood at rush hour. Ok then what is wrong with sending it elsewhere past rockaway Blvd? Plus Q27&88 have reliability issues you don't see on the Q41 Edited March 5, 2014 by qjtransitmaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3265 Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Really now do tell how a 30 min bus is useful to lindenwood at rush hour. Ok then what is wrong with sending it elsewhere past rockaway Blvd? Plus Q27&88 have reliability issues you don't see on the Q41 That last statement is false, as the Q41 has reliability issues. The Q21 does serve a completely different area. Not everyone is going to the train, and people have different destinations of where to go. There's really no where else you can send the Q21. I did propose for it to go to Spring Creek before, but I dropped that (let the BM5 handle that if they're going to the city). You can't make it serve Rockaway Blvd, because the Q7 is more frequent. Thererfore, Howard Beach is the most ideal place to send the Q21 to. By the way, just because the Q41 runs more frequent than the rest, doesn't mean they will use that. Lindenwood Residents would just say screw the Q21 and Q41, and get on the BM5 and QM15 (since most are going into the city). The Q21 really is only used best during middays, evenings, and on Saturdays in Howard Beach. Q41 buses also tend to be emptier south of Rockaway Blvd, and at several times of the day, even more than the Q21. Also, no one in that area is going to go to Jamaica, and Back- track to the city. If they're going to Long Island, maybe, but very rarely. The Q41 does serve a bigger rider base than the Q21, in general, but the Q21 serves more destinations and areas people want. Edited March 6, 2014 by Q23 Central Terminal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3266 Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Really now do tell how a 30 min bus is useful to lindenwood at rush hour. Ok then what is wrong with sending it elsewhere past rockaway Blvd? Plus Q27&88 have reliability issues you don't see on the Q41 The point is not whether it's useful. The point is that the Q11 cannot support anything better than every half hour. More service would, quite frankly, be a waste of money. On the other hand, the Q21 and Q41 show that, at least to Rockaway Blvd, that route can handle twice the service that the Q21 has. Where else would the Q21 go? Nearly all the other neighborhoods already have bus service. What else would you be sending it to past Rockaway Blvd? Edited March 6, 2014 by bobtehpanda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3267 Posted March 6, 2014 I wonder what would make BP reject the artics? Individual depots don't accept or reject buses. That role falls to Regional Bus Operations upper management. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxM4Woodlawn Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3268 Posted March 6, 2014 some route changes that need to take place. Q10: Extend to Forest Hills-71st Avenue. Q32: Extend to Astoria BlvdQ34: have 7 day serviceQ36: cut service to Little Neck Q58: extend to Roosevelt Ave Q60: extend to Floral ParkQ66: replace Q101 in Manhattan Q79: bring back service for 7 days Q101: truncate at Queens Plaza Q104: extend to Queens Center Mall Q112: extend to Howard Beach 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3269 Posted March 6, 2014 some route changes that need to take place. Q10: Extend to Forest Hills-71st Avenue. Q32: Extend to Astoria Blvd Q34: have 7 day service Q36: cut service to Little Neck Q58: extend to Roosevelt Ave Q60: extend to Floral Park Q66: replace Q101 in Manhattan Q79: bring back service for 7 days Q101: truncate at Queens Plaza Q104: extend to Queens Center Mall Q112: extend to Howard Beach Q10/32/58/60/66/104/112: Those extensions are unnecessary. Leave them as they are, because this would leave to bunching and reliability problems (and for most, they already have that, so it'll get worse). Q36/Q79: The reason that route ultimately failed was because it didn't serve the subway, by doing that, you wouldn't garner mush ridership, and you'd isolate the areas which would have a one fare ride. So I don't think this should happen. Theres is no need for Sunday Service. For Saturday Service, I don't know why, but is it possible for the MTA to run 5 round trips on the Q36 to Little Neck, running every 2 hours. (From 10 AM- 6 PM) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BxM4Woodlawn Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3270 Posted March 6, 2014 Q10/32/58/60/66/104/112: Those extensions are unnecessary. Leave them as they are, because this would leave to bunching and reliability problems (and for most, they already have that, so it'll get worse). Q36/Q79: The reason that route ultimately failed was because it didn't serve the subway, by doing that, you wouldn't garner mush ridership, and you'd isolate the areas which would have a one fare ride. So I don't think this should happen. Theres is no need for Sunday Service. For Saturday Service, I don't know why, but is it possible for the MTA to run 5 round trips on the Q36 to Little Neck, running every 2 hours. (From 10 AM- 6 PM) okay but for express bus service, the QM3 and 24 need to run all day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3271 Posted March 6, 2014 some route changes that need to take place. Q10: Extend to Forest Hills-71st Avenue. Q32: Extend to Astoria Blvd Q34: have 7 day service Q36: cut service to Little Neck Q58: extend to Roosevelt Ave Q60: extend to Floral Park Q66: replace Q101 in Manhattan Q79: bring back service for 7 days Q101: truncate at Queens Plaza Q104: extend to Queens Center Mall Q112: extend to Howard Beach There is no need to mess with these routes. The only one that could work is having the Q101 cut back to Queens Plaza since it mostly empty going to 2nd Ave. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK Depot Posted March 6, 2014 Share #3272 Posted March 6, 2014 some route changes that need to take place. Q10: Extend to Forest Hills-71st Avenue. Q32: Extend to Astoria Blvd Q34: have 7 day service Q36: cut service to Little Neck Q58: extend to Roosevelt Ave Q60: extend to Floral Park Q66: replace Q101 in Manhattan Q79: bring back service for 7 days Q101: truncate at Queens Plaza Q104: extend to Queens Center Mall Q112: extend to Howard Beach Smh why are you extending the Q60 ????? Why are you extending the Q10 and Q112 ????? All these extentions arent needed... Do you know how much up roar you would hear from all these moves if they actually happened smh... The Q34 should run later hours if anything... Every other line mentioned I won't even touch... Think of some less drastic moves 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share #3273 Posted March 6, 2014 Individual depots don't accept or reject buses. That role falls to Regional Bus Operations upper management. Thanks for the tip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missabassie Posted March 7, 2014 Share #3274 Posted March 7, 2014 some route changes that need to take place. Q10: Extend to Forest Hills-71st Avenue. Q32: Extend to Astoria Blvd Q34: have 7 day service Q36: cut service to Little Neck Q58: extend to Roosevelt Ave Q60: extend to Floral Park Q66: replace Q101 in Manhattan Q79: bring back service for 7 days Q101: truncate at Queens Plaza Q104: extend to Queens Center Mall Q112: extend to Howard Beach You want to run the Q60 from east midtown to Floral Park... are you f**king INSANE?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted March 7, 2014 Share #3275 Posted March 7, 2014 If LIB was joined into MTA Bus Do you think they would have merged the following routes for their latenight hawks or last few runs of the night? Q2/N6 Q5/N4 Q12/N20 Q43/N22 Q36/N24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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