Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The problem with this sort of thinking is that NST is composed of primarily people from Nassau and Suffolk Counties, which both have atrocious levels of transit service (and atrocious attitudes towards transit to match)

 

I also don't think that many of them are looking for Manhattan, since they prize themselves on having everything on-site and the community there isn't that young.

I see.... That's odd though because Riverdale is also known for its elderly population, but there's the link to Manhattan because many of them move to Riverdale from the Upper West and Upper East Side, hence why we have express buses serving those two areas. I'm usually the youngest one on the express bus unless a family comes on with kids.  Aside from our elderly folks, we also have lots of middle aged folks riding and then our younger folks later on at night usually coming back from hanging out in the city.  I assume those folks primarily drive to Long Island then no?  I'm curious what sort of riders make up the QM6 then...  Maybe it gets some run off from the QM5.  

[NewFlyer 230]

I see.... That's odd though because Riverdale is also known for its elderly population, but there's the link to Manhattan because many of them move to Riverdale from the Upper West and Upper East Side, hence why we have express buses serving those two areas. I'm usually the youngest one on the express bus unless a family comes on with kids. Aside from our elderly folks, we also have lots of middle aged folks riding and then our younger folks later on at night usually coming back from hanging out in the city. I assume those folks primarily drive to Long Island then no? I'm curious what sort of riders make up the QM6 then... Maybe it gets some run off from the QM5.

From the City line near I believe 265st to 188st in Fresh Meadows. That's where the QM5 meets back up with the QM6. In terms of usage the QM5 is first QM6 and then QM1.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

From the City line near I believe 265st to 188st in Fresh Meadows. That's where the QM5 meets back up with the QM6. In terms of usage the QM5 is first QM6 and then QM1.

I know that... I've used the QM1, QM5 and QM6 before but usually not past Kew Gardens Hills.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I know that... I've used the QM1, QM5 and QM6 before but usually not past Kew Gardens Hills.

 

The reasons the QM6 doesn't get the same ridership are quite obvious, but mainly because the QM5 runs nearly half of the route in the same route path (and the QM5 is more frequent on weekdays). The other reasons include:

 

- Q46 is more frequent

- The QM1 is scheduled (especially to Manhattan during Middays) way too close to (scheduled to come before) the QM6.

- Simply put, the QM6 serves less residential areas where it's only the QM6 as the express (compared to the QM5) 

 

 

The QM5 was, is, and will continue to be the prevalent express bus on Union Tpke. 

 

The QM6 gets it's ridership in Queens mainly from these three areas (on it's sole portion):

Oakland Gardens

Glen Oaks (the QM6 is faster than the QM5 from there)

Jamaica Estates

 

In Addition, with the QM5 

Kew Garden Hills.

 

NST is not a real generator, and the LIJ Hospital also isn't a real generator (believe it). However, if someone rides the bus to LIJ on the QM6, usually Saturdays is where the most ridership comes from. 

Edited January 8, 2014 by Q23 Central Terminal

[qjtransitmaster]

The reasons the QM6 doesn't get the same ridership are quite obvious, but mainly because the QM5 runs nearly half of the route in the same route path (and the QM5 is more frequent on weekdays). The other reasons include:

 

- Q46 is more frequent

- The QM1 is scheduled (especially to Manhattan during Middays) way too close to (scheduled to come before) the QM6.

- Simply put, the QM6 serves less residential areas where it's only the QM6 as the express (compared to the QM5) 

 

 

The QM5 was, is, and will continue to be the prevalent express bus on Union Tpke. 

 

The QM6 gets it's ridership in Queens mainly from these three areas (on it's sole portion):

Oakland Gardens

Glen Oaks (the QM6 is faster than the QM5 from there)

Jamaica Estates

 

In Addition, with the QM5 

Kew Garden Hills.

 

NST is not a real generator, and the LIJ Hospital also isn't a real generator (believe it). However, if someone rides the bus to LIJ on the QM6, usually Saturdays is where the most ridership comes from. 

If that's the case then why not run QM6 super express to 188th then serve union tpk on it's sole segment if that's where most of its ridership is? Other than the fact LIE sucks.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

If that's the case then why not run QM6 super express to 188th then serve union tpk on it's sole segment if that's where most of its ridership is? Other than the fact LIE sucks.

 

Nah, ain't gonna happen. People do get on the QM6 in Kew Gardens Hills, but in lesser numbers. You'd also put too much burden on the QM1/5 during the rush (although the QM1 can use some more ridership during peak hours, but then it won't be able to hold all the QM6 riders. I wouldn't go for it, personally. You'd have less ridership on the distance, and even if it ran super express, it wouldn't save a significant amount of time for it to do that. I'd rather keep the QM6 as it is. 

 

The QM5/QM6 are doing fine  since I'm in the Fresh Meadows/Oakland Gardens area commonly, so whenever I have to go into the city for some occasion, or just for a little fun, they're helpful. The QM5/6 though (for the most part) have suitable ridership. The fact that the amount of reverse peak riders to Manhattan on the QM5 in the PM is slightly higher than Middays surprises me a bit, but yeah (I have yet to take the QM6, everytime I get on the 5 comes first (or sometimes the 1).

[qjtransitmaster]

Nah, ain't gonna happen. People do get on the QM6 in Kew Gardens Hills, but in lesser numbers. You'd also put too much burden on the QM1/5 during the rush (although the QM1 can use some more ridership during peak hours, but then it won't be able to hold all the QM6 riders. I wouldn't go for it, personally. You'd have less ridership on the distance, and even if it ran super express, it wouldn't save a significant amount of time for it to do that. I'd rather keep the QM6 as it is. 

 

The QM5/QM6 are doing fine  since I'm in the Fresh Meadows/Oakland Gardens area commonly, so whenever I have to go into the city for some occasion, or just for a little fun, they're helpful. The QM5/6 though (for the most part) have suitable ridership. The fact that the amount of reverse peak riders to Manhattan on the QM5 in the PM is slightly higher than Middays surprises me a bit, but yeah (I have yet to take the QM6, everytime I get on the 5 comes first (or sometimes the 1).

qm1 will just get boosted peak service or redirected x68 to fill those buses up more. You only strengthened my argument buddy. If HOV is extended then yeah it would shave off a huge amount of time.

Edited January 9, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

I get it but come on now... They're got an express bus at their door to take them to the city.  Heck I have the express bus practically at my door and it's fantastic to relax on the express bus and not have to deal with driving.  Have a nice nap, listen to music, etc. and let someone else do the driving.  I'm sure they would raise hell though if it were cut.  

I wasn't making any underlying point about NST wanting express bus service or not... Hell, I wasn't even following along with the discussion y'all were having 2-3 days ago or w/e...... All I paid attention to before I made that post in question, was Bob's post regarding about (what NST is).... I expounded on it.....

 

I see this reply, and I'm goin back checkin posts like what is this guy talkin about; come on for what.....

 

The reasons the QM6 doesn't get the same ridership are quite obvious, but mainly because the QM5 runs nearly half of the route in the same route path (and the QM5 is more frequent on weekdays). The other reasons include:

 

- Q46 is more frequent

- The QM1 is scheduled (especially to Manhattan during Middays) way too close to (scheduled to come before) the QM6.

- Simply put, the QM6 serves less residential areas where it's only the QM6 as the express (compared to the QM5) 

 

 

The QM5 was, is, and will continue to be the prevalent express bus on Union Tpke. 

 

The QM6 gets it's ridership in Queens mainly from these three areas (on it's sole portion):

Oakland Gardens

Glen Oaks (the QM6 is faster than the QM5 from there)

Jamaica Estates

 

In Addition, with the QM5 

Kew Garden Hills.

 

NST is not a real generator, and the LIJ Hospital also isn't a real generator (believe it). However, if someone rides the bus to LIJ on the QM6, usually Saturdays is where the most ridership comes from. 

In Red, is the main reason the QM5 obtains more usage than the QM6..... QM1's being scheduled too close to the QM6 aint enough of a factor.....

 

On the weekend, the ones that take Q46's to the subway (over taking the express when they normally would) are the ones that get fed up waiting for the things..... Otherwise, the "regulars" of the Union Tpke expresses aren't putting up with the Q46.....

 

...and Lol @ "believe it".... Anyone with half a brain would realize LIJ wouldn't be a real generator.... That stop likely exists for whatever little park & ride commuters there are, not for anyone going to/from LIJ from/to manhattan...... 

 

qm1 will just get boosted peak service or redirected x68 to fill those buses up more. You only strengthened my argument buddy. If HOV is extended then yeah it would shave off a huge amount of time.

Forget about this option.... x68's are filled up enough, west of 188th....

[bobtehpanda]

qm1 will just get boosted peak service or redirected x68 to fill those buses up more. You only strengthened my argument buddy. If HOV is extended then yeah it would shave off a huge amount of time.

 

Right...

 

X68s are very well utilized, and you can see crowds of ten people or more waiting at X68 stops in the morning (which, considering how dense Eastern Queens is, is very impressive.)

 

I've always thought that there should be a few X68s running down Braddock or to Springfield/Jamaica. There are people who apparently transfer from X68s to Q1s in the PM (which is very strange, but hey, it's their commute...)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I wasn't making any underlying point about NST wanting express bus service or not... Hell, I wasn't even following along with the discussion y'all were having 2-3 days ago or w/e...... All I paid attention to before I made that post in question, was Bob's post regarding about (what NST is).... I expounded on it.....

 

I see this reply, and I'm goin back checkin posts like what is this guy talkin about; come on for what.....

 

My come on was more about the folks in NST being that snobby... Then again if they're that anti-transit, it makes sense.  Even on Staten Island, some folks were anti-express bus even though they knew the clientele that was served.

[N6 Limited]

Right...

 

X68s are very well utilized, and you can see crowds of ten people or more waiting at X68 stops in the morning (which, considering how dense Eastern Queens is, is very impressive.)

 

I've always thought that there should be a few X68s running down Braddock or to Springfield/Jamaica. There are people who apparently transfer from X68s to Q1s in the PM (which is very strange, but hey, it's their commute...)

You're in a comfy chair, nice quiet bus, no subway delays, no waiting in the cold on a long line to board a bus in Jamaica. Also, Above ground with cellphone reception. I've thought about taking the X68 to Francis Lewis for the N6 if the QB line was screwed up. Other than that it wouldn't necessarily save me any time.

 

307 pages and 1.5 years later and QJ is still getting people angry on this thread? :|

 

Hmmm random thoughts/proposals I have:

 

- I think something should be done about the Hillside Avenue corridor during the AM rush. I constantly see people getting flagged nearly every stop after F Lewis. (Which makes me glad that I take the 6X and don't have to deal with that mess.). I would make a solution but cannot put my mind on it, maybe someone could help...

 

I'll list more later when I get my mind to it

I'm assuming you're talking about Jamaica bound service?  After Francis Lewis don't they have the Q1, Q76, Q77, and further down Q17, Q2 and Q3? I do see several people at many stops when I'm on the N6 though.

 

Personally, I think there needs to be some stop reorganization on Hillside (namely, the Q1 does not need its own bus stand for a route that comes every half hour; move the Q2 and Q3 to the Q1 bus stand on 179th/Hillside, which is right outside the subway exit and much more convenient.

 

Long term, I would have the Q36 make the same exact limited stops that the Q43 does, while boosting Q1/2/3 service so that it more effectively serves as a local version of the 43. The Q1 is basically already this; there aren't that many people at the stand until one shows up, in which case people will rush the stand because they refuse to wait for another minute for a 43 with the line stretching around the block.

 

While in the long run this screws me over (because then the MTA has an excuse to reduce the frequency of 43 service), the 43 basically cannabalizes all Hillside ridership due to how frequently the buses show up over the "local" buses (and honestly, even though the Q36 comes often enough the buses are usually packed and the bus stand is too far from the other "local" bus stands to make a difference.

Going East I'm not sure that the Q2 and Q3 would help too much they turn off Hillside early. The Q1 and 43 should share the same stand. Many wait for the 43 because it's more frequent.

 

This is why I planned for a Q43 all day limited. Weekdays only. It would make local stops after Springfield. The Q1 would be extended west to Jamaica station for local service. Does it really need 2 lanes at 165?

Is the Q43 busy all day? 

[qjtransitmaster]

My come on was more about the folks in NST being that snobby... Then again if they're that anti-transit, it makes sense.  Even on Staten Island, some folks were anti-express bus even though they knew the clientele that was served.

You do realize he said Nassau & Suffolk which means a bus to Manhattan is very unlikely to be used if they need to go to work in LI!

 

You're in a comfy chair, nice quiet bus, no subway delays, no waiting in the cold on a long line to board a bus in Jamaica. Also, Above ground with cellphone reception. I've thought about taking the X68 to Francis Lewis for the N6 if the QB line was screwed up. Other than that it wouldn't necessarily save me any time.

 

I'm assuming you're talking about Jamaica bound service?  After Francis Lewis don't they have the Q1, Q76, Q77, and further down Q17, Q2 and Q3? I do see several people at many stops when I'm on the N6 though.

 

Going East I'm not sure that the Q2 and Q3 would help too much they turn off Hillside early. The Q1 and 43 should share the same stand. Many wait for the 43 because it's more frequent.

 

Is the Q43 busy all day? 

Q43 is that busy yes. And delays in Manhattan and LIE are much worse than the subway delays. Have you seen hillside traffic. Those use Q43 to go past to eastern queens. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You do realize he said Nassau & Suffolk which means a bus to Manhattan is very unlikely to be used if they need to go to work in LI!

 

Q43 is that busy yes. And delays in Manhattan and LIE are much worse than the subway delays. Have you seen hillside traffic. Those use Q43 to go past to eastern queens. 

The point that was made is that regardless of where they're going they would prefer to use a car no matter how high end the service may be.

[qjtransitmaster]

The point that was made is that regardless of where they're going they would prefer to use a car no matter how high end the service may be.

You don't get it NST residents working in Nassau and Suffolk have almost no use for the QM6. QM6 goes to Manhattan not to where these folks work.

[bobtehpanda]

You don't get it NST residents working in Nassau and Suffolk have almost no use for the QM6. QM6 goes to Manhattan not to where these folks work.

 

Which was established long, long ago...

 

Why exactly are you running circles 'round the debate on NST when it's over?

You're in a comfy chair, nice quiet bus, no subway delays, no waiting in the cold on a long line to board a bus in Jamaica. Also, Above ground with cellphone reception. I've thought about taking the X68 to Francis Lewis for the N6 if the QB line was screwed up. Other than that it wouldn't necessarily save me any time.

 

I'm assuming you're talking about Jamaica bound service?  After Francis Lewis don't they have the Q1, Q76, Q77, and further down Q17, Q2 and Q3? I do see several people at many stops when I'm on the N6 though.

 

Going East I'm not sure that the Q2 and Q3 would help too much they turn off Hillside early. The Q1 and 43 should share the same stand. Many wait for the 43 because it's more frequent.

 

Is the Q43 busy all day? 

 

The Q43 (and surprisingly, the N22s) are usually fully seated, with standees on the 43 after Francis Lewis, and standees on the 22 crossing the county line.

[N6 Limited]

Which was established long, long ago...

 

Why exactly are you running circles 'round the debate on NST when it's over?

 

 

The Q43 (and surprisingly, the N22s) are usually fully seated, with standees on the 43 after Francis Lewis, and standees on the 22 crossing the county line.

Ok Because I usually see Q43's them during rush hour and evenings so I wasnt' sure how busy they are other times. Yeah the N22 gets good ridership.. Much of the ridership is between Roosevelt Field and Jamaica. I remember when I used to work by Roosevelt Field, in the evenings you'd see SRO N22's (and N15s) leaving the stop at Glen Cove Rd & Old County Road, The N24 was SRO sometimes to a lesser extent,  but people prefer the N22 because Jericho Turnpike sucks.

 

You do realize he said Nassau & Suffolk which means a bus to Manhattan is very unlikely to be used if they need to go to work in LI!

 

Q43 is that busy yes. And delays in Manhattan and LIE are much worse than the subway delays. Have you seen hillside traffic. Those use Q43 to go past to eastern queens. 

Yep I've seen Hillside Traffic, it isn't that bad because there aren't a ton of traffic signals bogging it down. 

[BreeddekalbL]

How can we relieve bunching on the q53?

[bobtehpanda]

How can we relieve bunching on the q53?

 

Now, this is just going to be a general reply about bunching.

 

Bunching in congested areas is just a fact of life. The only things that reliably solve this problem are schedule adjustments (which can only do so much), reducing stops in congested areas, bus lanes, traffic priority, and anything that just generally increases the average speed of the buses. This does not include limited stop spacing, which has absolutely no impact on bus bunching (and could actually make it worse if people abandon locals and swarm limiteds).

 

Buses in congested areas running in mixed traffic are going to bunch, as will streetcars, PRT, and any other mixed-traffic technology, as long as the sun is shining.

[bobtehpanda]

Going East I'm not sure that the Q2 and Q3 would help too much they turn off Hillside early. The Q1 and 43 should share the same stand. Many wait for the 43 because it's more frequent.

 

The reason I would boost Q1/2/3 as the Hillside "local" service and not just the Q1 is that I don't believe that either Braddock or Springfield really needs a lot more branch service. Perhaps a Q1/76/77 split would be better.

 

I think that on Hillside, the stands should be Q36, Q43, Q1/76/77, and Q2/3 (or Q1/2/3 and Q76/77). The logic would be similar to the Q46, where the local and limited have separate stands (and which is what I'm basing my Hillside service redistribution on)

[N6 Limited]

The Q76/77 should share a stand with another route because they don't run frequently enough for someone to intentionally take them unless they're going to a stop on Francis Lewis. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

How can we relieve bunching on the q53?

 

The only way to get rid of bus bunching in general is to get rid of buses.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The only way to get rid of bus bunching in general is to get rid of buses.

And that isn't happening.

[qjtransitmaster]

Now, this is just going to be a general reply about bunching.

 

Bunching in congested areas is just a fact of life. The only things that reliably solve this problem are schedule adjustments (which can only do so much), reducing stops in congested areas, bus lanes, traffic priority, and anything that just generally increases the average speed of the buses. This does not include limited stop spacing, which has absolutely no impact on bus bunching (and could actually make it worse if people abandon locals and swarm limiteds).

 

Buses in congested areas running in mixed traffic are going to bunch, as will streetcars, PRT, and any other mixed-traffic technology, as long as the sun is shining.

Nuff said pretty much the world in a nutshell.

[B35 via Church]

The reason I would boost Q1/2/3 as the Hillside "local" service and not just the Q1 is that I don't believe that either Braddock or Springfield really needs a lot more branch service. Perhaps a Q1/76/77 split would be better.

Yeah, but Here's the dilemma man....

 

Increasing Q2's & 3's for better Hillside service would be all for naught, as there are way too many Q43 & Q1 riders riding from/due east of 187 pl/188 st.....

 

Francis Lewis would be better for that particular cause, but you have to consider the rest of the Q76/77 also.... Neither bus route along the rest of its respective route north of Hillside (76)/south of Hillside (77) warrants a boost in service enough to address the masses utilizing buses along Hillside (on up to that point).... That's the problem with choosing the 76 & 77 for that purpose.... So your only plausible options are boosting the Q1 & the Q36.....

 

...and who was advocating for "a lot" more Braddock & Springfield service anyway? 

What's ironic about that statement, is that you're advocating boosting Q1 service - which runs on both those streets!

 

The only way to get rid of bus bunching in general is to get rid of buses.

Not entirely true.... Even buses on high headways can bunch (our express buses are a good example of this, even during middays).....

 

And that isn't happening.

Let's hope not.... Remember what we're dealing with here.....

 

How can we relieve bunching on the q53?

Service adjustments; Decrease Headways or Cut Service.... Problem with that though is you risk overserving or underserving the route, for the sake of trying to relieve bunching (which are caused by many factors, little of which the MTA can actually do anything about).....

Edited January 12, 2014 by B35 via Church

[bobtehpanda]

Yeah, but Here's the dilemma man....

 

Increasing Q2's & 3's for better Hillside service would be all for naught, as there are way too many Q43 & Q1 riders riding from/due east of 187 pl/188 st.....

 

Francis Lewis would be better for that particular cause, but you have to consider the rest of the Q76/77 also.... Neither bus route along the rest of its respective route north of Hillside (76)/south of Hillside (77) warrants a boost in service enough to address the masses utilizing buses along Hillside (on up to that point).... That's the problem with choosing the 76 & 77 for that purpose.... So your only plausible options are boosting the Q1 & the Q36.....

 

...and who was advocating for "a lot" more Braddock & Springfield service anyway? 

What's ironic about that statement, is that you're advocating boosting Q1 service - which runs on both those streets!

 

Ideally, I'd like local service (a combination of routes or just the Q1) to be boosted to similar levels to the Q43. As of right now, every Q1 is full leaving 179th during the PM peak, but that's only because people bum-rush it on arrival to avoid the Q43's crowds. I don't know enough about AM usage, though.

 

Anything that'll take pressure off the Q43 is a good thing.