BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 2, 2013 Share #1676 Posted July 2, 2013 The Q7 isn't any faster, especially rush hours.. And the B84 doesn't need any Extention, its route isn't delay prone at all, just another way to screw it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1677 Posted July 3, 2013 The Q7 isn't any faster, especially rush hours.. And the B84 doesn't need any Extention, its route isn't delay prone at all, just another way to screw it up. a B84 extension would be cheaper than a whole new route. Plus Q7 is better for baisley as it is direct. I think after I map those you would see how it really works. The additional riders brought in would outweigh any costs plus I planned a better structure to avert linden traffic west of the jct at remsen and kings hwy. Plus it means easier access to those hospitals on Clarkson ave for B84. The will help the outer spring creek part but things are needed to allow this. If Q7 needs a LTD so be it for rush hours. You won't get it in pieces I noticed that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1678 Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) a B84 extension would be cheaper than a whole new route. Plus Q7 is better for baisley as it is direct. I think after I map those you would see how it really works. The additional riders brought in would outweigh any costs plus I planned a better structure to avert linden traffic west of the jct at remsen and kings hwy. Plus it means easier access to those hospitals on Clarkson ave for B84. The will help the outer spring creek part but things are needed to allow this. If Q7 needs a LTD so be it for rush hours. You won't get it in pieces I noticed that. A B84 extention would also be more delay prone then it's current route... I just love how you -1 when people simply disagree with your plans. Edited July 3, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1679 Posted July 3, 2013 A B84 extention would also be more delay prone then it's current route... I just love how you -1 when people simply disagree with your plans. I am on a phone that was an accident. Linden is not like that. I will update this later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubBus Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1680 Posted July 3, 2013 ----------- Side note: I don't know why they have the Q104 terminal listed as being on 34th/11th, when the last stop on the 104 is right after it makes the turn off vernon onto 34th.... It's why you'll see some b/o's layover along vernon blvd in that area sometimes..... You know, that's one thing I never quite understood about terminal listings (of the bus routes where the last dropoff stop isn't the same as the first pickup stop).... There's no rhyme or reason as to whether bus companies (not just the MTA, but in general) advertise the last dropoff stop as "the" terminal, or the first pickup stop as "the" terminal..... By definition, a terminal is an endpoint..... - Where the Q104 turns off 34th onto 11th on that corner there is the first pickup stop, not the last dropoff stop.... I'm not much of a thread starter on forums, but I long thought about having a discussion of sorts..... Of course, it's a moot point if it's like the Q100 for example, where the destination sign shows a general area; "LI City - Queens Plz - Limited".... But the Q104 destination signage in that direction is a little more specific (IINM, it goes "LI City - 11th st || via 48th st via Bway")... What I'm getting at is, "11th st" shouldn't be shown - Vernon blvd should be shown instead.... It's a misnomer (and rather misleading).... A Lil off topic, the same can definitely be said for the B17 destination signage as well....... Other routes as well, but the B17 always stick out...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1681 Posted July 3, 2013 ----------- Side note: I don't know why they have the Q104 terminal listed as being on 34th/11th, when the last stop on the 104 is right after it makes the turn off vernon onto 34th.... It's why you'll see some b/o's layover along vernon blvd in that area sometimes..... You know, that's one thing I never quite understood about terminal listings (of the bus routes where the last dropoff stop isn't the same as the first pickup stop).... There's no rhyme or reason as to whether bus companies (not just the MTA, but in general) advertise the last dropoff stop as "the" terminal, or the first pickup stop as "the" terminal..... By definition, a terminal is an endpoint..... - Where the Q104 turns off 34th onto 11th on that corner there is the first pickup stop, not the last dropoff stop.... I'm not much of a thread starter on forums, but I long thought about having a discussion of sorts..... Of course, it's a moot point if it's like the Q100 for example, where the destination sign shows a general area; "LI City - Queens Plz - Limited".... But the Q104 destination signage in that direction is a little more specific (IINM, it goes "LI City - 11th st || via 48th st via Bway")... What I'm getting at is, "11th st" shouldn't be shown - Vernon blvd should be shown instead.... It's a misnomer (and rather misleading).... A Lil off topic, the same can definitely be said for the B17 destination signage as well....... Other routes as well, but the B17 always stick out...... Another huge example is the buses that terminate at Cadman Plaza... The B26, B38, B52, and B103 all say "DNTWN BKLYN||TILLARY ST" (with the B38 & 103 actually being on Tillary St itself) but for some reason the B41 is the only one that actually says "DNTWN BKLYN||CADMAN PLZ" Another one is the whole Ridgewood Intermodal Terminal deal. All the buses that terminate there all read "RIDGEWOOD TERM" but the B26 and B52 actually terminates (and first pickup stop) is around the corner (B26) and across the street (B52). The second stop for both them routes are in the "terminal" itself. So yeah, there are a bunch of lines whose terminals are a little misleading, but still close enough to get away with it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share #1682 Posted July 3, 2013 ----------- Side note: I don't know why they have the Q104 terminal listed as being on 34th/11th, when the last stop on the 104 is right after it makes the turn off vernon onto 34th.... It's why you'll see some b/o's layover along vernon blvd in that area sometimes..... You know, that's one thing I never quite understood about terminal listings (of the bus routes where the last dropoff stop isn't the same as the first pickup stop).... There's no rhyme or reason as to whether bus companies (not just the MTA, but in general) advertise the last dropoff stop as "the" terminal, or the first pickup stop as "the" terminal..... By definition, a terminal is an endpoint..... - Where the Q104 turns off 34th onto 11th on that corner there is the first pickup stop, not the last dropoff stop.... I'm not much of a thread starter on forums, but I long thought about having a discussion of sorts..... Of course, it's a moot point if it's like the Q100 for example, where the destination sign shows a general area; "LI City - Queens Plz - Limited".... But the Q104 destination signage in that direction is a little more specific (IINM, it goes "LI City - 11th st || via 48th st via Bway")... What I'm getting at is, "11th st" shouldn't be shown - Vernon blvd should be shown instead.... It's a misnomer (and rather misleading).... A Lil off topic, the same can definitely be said for the B17 destination signage as well....... Other routes as well, but the B17 always stick out...... I just have issues with some of these destination signs period. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1683 Posted July 3, 2013 I just have issues with some of these destination signs period. It's also a problem on the bus map - the MTA is extremely inconsistent about terminal placement, whether or not it's including the bus turnaround (why as customers do we need to know that?), and don't even get me started on how much the express bus clutters the map... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1684 Posted July 3, 2013 A Lil off topic, the same can definitely be said for the B17 destination signage as well....... Other routes as well, but the B17 always stick out...... Yeah, of course.... It's an issue with a number of other routes as well.... I pointed it out w/ the Q104 specifically b/c it was on my mind at the time I made that post you referenced... I just have issues with some of these destination signs period. Another huge example is the buses that terminate at Cadman Plaza... The B26, B38, B52, and B103 all say "DNTWN BKLYN||TILLARY ST" (with the B38 & 103 actually being on Tillary St itself) but for some reason the B41 is the only one that actually says "DNTWN BKLYN||CADMAN PLZ" Another one is the whole Ridgewood Intermodal Terminal deal. All the buses that terminate there all read "RIDGEWOOD TERM" but the B26 and B52 actually terminates (and first pickup stop) is around the corner (B26) and across the street (B52). The second stop for both them routes are in the "terminal" itself. So yeah, there are a bunch of lines whose terminals are a little misleading, but still close enough to get away with it - @ Q43LTD: Which is more or less the point..... they're not all that accurate (or uniform [as Fresh pond pointed out] for that matter).... - @ Fresh Pond: The ones that terminate "close enough" (like the 26 & 52 at Ridgewood terminal) wasn't really what I was getting at.... It's the ones that are far enough away from what's shown on the destination sign, was what I was making a talking point out of..... As for the Cadman plaza routes, I've always felt that all the routes that end at Cadman plaza, should have the destination sign the downtown bound B41's do..... ----------------------- side note: The B25 has a dest. sign that just reads "cadman plz"..... But of course, it didn't end w/ the 26/38/41/52/103, those trips ended over there on the other side of tillary, along cadman plz west (towards clark)..... It's also a problem on the bus map - the MTA is extremely inconsistent about terminal placement.... Yup, and on the timetable listings as well..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1685 Posted July 3, 2013 The Q58 is a good example of this. The sign reads Flushing Main St Sta and it stops three blocks away from the . I also have a question why do some short turns have very little details and some have more detail? Example Q34-Roosevelt Ave instead of saying Flushing Main St Sta and then you have the Q17- Fresh Meadows 188st. I can understand if the bus only stops there once or twice in a day like the Q88 does when it runs only to UTOPIA PKWY but if it stops there regularly it should really have more details. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1686 Posted July 3, 2013 Honestly, if a route is terminating close enough to a subway station, the subway station should be listed as the terminal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share #1687 Posted July 4, 2013 Oh man. The PBL's were the worse. And Long Island bus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 4, 2013 Share #1688 Posted July 4, 2013 Honestly, if a route is terminating close enough to a subway station, the subway station should be listed as the terminal. Exactly, because if you list the actual intersection, you wont see the ridership increase. It serves the LIRR Station, which technically it's sign is true in a way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 4, 2013 Share #1689 Posted July 4, 2013 Honestly, if a route is terminating close enough to a subway station, the subway station should be listed as the terminal. Sure, if there's no other major attractions around that subway station..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 4, 2013 Share #1690 Posted July 4, 2013 Exactly, because if you list the actual intersection, you wont see the ridership increase. It serves the LIRR Station, which technically it's sign is true in a way. many Q5 LTDs just say rosedale LIRR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 4, 2013 Share #1691 Posted July 4, 2013 many Q5 LTDs just say rosedale LIRR. Because they actual do terminate there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q90 Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1692 Posted July 6, 2013 So you really don't know how traffic moves along linden, if you're asking this question.... I figured you didn't.... B8/B35 deadheads on linden is only as fast as the regular traffic on linden (which isn't all that fast; and god help you if you're behind a truck or two).... Only time they SPEED on linden is during the late evening/early morning hrs..... Approaching AM rush hour, some b/o's will even use church av to get to Brownsville..... What would it matter anyway.... You can't use deadhead time to gauge an in-service route's runtime..... So you really don't know how traffic moves along linden, if you're asking this question.... I figured you didn't.... B8/B35 deadheads on linden is only as fast as the regular traffic on linden (which isn't all that fast; and god help you if you're behind a truck or two).... Only time they SPEED on linden is during the late evening/early morning hrs..... Approaching AM rush hour, some b/o's will even use church av to get to Brownsville..... What would it matter anyway.... You can't use deadhead time to gauge an in-service route's runtime..... FYI B35 doesn't go on Linden, only B8 when it turns around from it's terminus. B35 turns onto New Lots Avenue to head for Sunset Park. And the B8 also doesn't go deadhead on Linden, there are stops at Thomas Boyland Street and Rockaway Parkway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1693 Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) FYI B35 doesn't go on Linden, only B8 when it turns around from it's terminus. B35 turns onto New Lots Avenue to head for Sunset Park. And the B8 also doesn't go deadhead on Linden, there are stops at Thomas Boyland Street and Rockaway Parkway. Yes it does...even the B35 does deadheading to/from Brownsville Edited July 6, 2013 by Fresh Pond 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1694 Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) FYI B35 doesn't go on Linden, only B8 when it turns around from it's terminus. B35 turns onto New Lots Avenue to head for Sunset Park. And the B8 also doesn't go deadhead on Linden, there are stops at Thomas Boyland Street and Rockaway Parkway. you double quoted by accident but no matter. I think you mean B35 onto New Lots Avenue to head for mother gaston which is it's eastern terminal. It heads the opposite way for sunset park. The B8 he is talking about is DH as in not in service. Of course it's in service route stops at thomas boyland and rockaway parkway. Ohh FYI my so called linden blvd B106 (Original proposal) would actually get off linden at remsen then use winthrop towards albany ave then albany ave to clarkson in turn it uses NY ave to get back on linden then to caton ave some trips would end at ft hamilton station other trips every 25 mins similar to B103 downtown brooklyn headways would use the prospect expressway to the gowanus to head to bay ridge via 3rd ave towards 86th station. Now however it looks like it is better served by extension of another route or whatever ohh well it's just a idea I am throwing around. The diverting off linden west of remsen was to avoid linden blvd traffic and serve the hospitals in that area at the same time for maximum ridership. FYI the DOT actually did propose a SBS line that would connect JFK to sunset park via Linden blvd just like your route but with 2 key differences it stays on linden and goes to JFK instead of diverting to the gateway mall. Also instead of going to downtown brooklyn it stays on caton ave then assumes the B35's routing to sunset park. So your definitely not the first person to propose a linden blvd bus neither was I. Edited July 6, 2013 by qjtransitmaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Bus Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1695 Posted July 6, 2013 My idea for a bus route Is the Q51. It would run from the Q4 terminal in Cambria Heights to Aqueduct Casino via Linden Blvd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1696 Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) FYI B35 doesn't go on Linden, only B8 when it turns around from it's terminus. B35 turns onto New Lots Avenue to head for Sunset Park. And the B8 also doesn't go deadhead on Linden, there are stops at Thomas Boyland Street and Rockaway Parkway. What are you talking about? It isn't for my information because I'm not talking about the B8 & B35 turning around for in-service trips..... Deadheading is when drivers make their way to/from the depot, from/to a terminal (or making their way to the terminal of another route if interlining is involved with a particular run)...... Neither of which is revenue mileage. My idea for a bus route Is the Q51. It would run from the Q4 terminal in Cambria Heights to Aqueduct Casino via Linden Blvd. sans the new casino (b/c it wasn't around then), this is more or less what the DOT proposed a good while back - connecting both ends of linden blvd in Queens with one route (except they suggested it go to rockaway blvd. station)...... Edited July 6, 2013 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1697 Posted July 6, 2013 My idea for a bus route Is the Q51. It would run from the Q4 terminal in Cambria Heights to Aqueduct Casino via Linden Blvd. look closely at the queens bus map you can reroute a bus to do just that. Hint: it runs every 30 mins allday. and you can offset by extending a line past rockaway blvd . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubBus Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1698 Posted July 6, 2013 1. How about the Q113 become limited along Guy Brewer? Q111 for local service......... Or 2. Short turn Q111 and Q113 locals terminate at Parsons-Archer during the day? 3. How about swapping the Q83 and Q84 spots at Parsons-Archer? All the Merrick Blvd routes would be in one location. 4. How about the Rosedale bound Q111 actually stop at the Q111 stop at Parsons-Archer? Or extend the bus stop further..... Comments, discuss, criticize.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share #1699 Posted July 6, 2013 1. How about the Q113 become limited along Guy Brewer? Q111 for local service......... Or 2. Short turn Q111 and Q113 locals terminate at Parsons-Archer during the day? 3. How about swapping the Q83 and Q84 spots at Parsons-Archer? All the Merrick Blvd routes would be in one location. 4. How about the Rosedale bound Q111 actually stop at the Q111 stop at Parsons-Archer? Or extend the bus stop further..... Comments, discuss, criticize.... The Q113 is already a 7 day LTD along Brewer. I was considering having 111's short turn at Jamaica Center. I'm not sure about the 83/84 swap. The current theme so to speak is the LTD's are in one spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoria Line Posted July 6, 2013 Share #1700 Posted July 6, 2013 1. How about the Q113 become limited along Guy Brewer? Q111 for local service......... Or 2. Short turn Q111 and Q113 locals terminate at Parsons-Archer during the day? 3. How about swapping the Q83 and Q84 spots at Parsons-Archer? All the Merrick Blvd routes would be in one location. 4. How about the Rosedale bound Q111 actually stop at the Q111 stop at Parsons-Archer? Or extend the bus stop further..... Comments, discuss, criticize.... I agree with the short turning of the 111s/113s... A LOT of people actually get on at Parsons on the ... then you have a bunch of people getting on at Jamaica Ctr... May I also note, there is a bit of bus traffic at Parsons/Hillside, so short turning the 111s/113s MAY alleviate that a little bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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