NewFlyer 230 Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1626 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) There are a lot of blacks on the 113. Local and limited. And don't you dare tinker with my home route.Hmm I would of thought your home route was the Q43 Edited June 30, 2013 by College Pt Man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share #1627 Posted June 30, 2013 Hmm I would of thought your home route was the Q43 Nope. Just a name. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1628 Posted June 30, 2013 lol... these changes from information you gathered.... The only thing that makes sense out of this is having Q5 LTD's go to green acres.... There is no point in having any of the short turn trips running longer than the Q5's that already go to green acres... Which goes to show you that those folks did not want the LIRR..... Well that is due to poor marketing and pricing. It is meant to take those in rosedale off X63s onto Q5/LIRR. If Q85 can have a short stint in rosedale so can the Q5 again it's a rush hour proposal not adding off-peak service to those parts as it isn't needed at least to an extent. However I did mention SELECT trips. In PM some locals are truncated for Q5 LTD extensions to green acres and select runs of LTD trips can go to rosedale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1629 Posted June 30, 2013 Well that is due to poor marketing and pricing. It is meant to take those in rosedale off X63s onto Q5/LIRR. If Q85 can have a short stint in rosedale so can the Q5 again it's a rush hour proposal not adding off-peak service to those parts as it isn't needed at least to an extent. However I did mention SELECT trips. In PM some locals are truncated for Q5 LTD extensions to green acres and select runs of LTD trips can go to rosedale. pfft, poor marketing & pricing... Those folks didn't want the LIRR en masse & they spoke with their feet in not bothering putting up taking those old Q86's...... Again with this trying to dictate what people should do w/ their wallets; talking about taking rosedale folks off x63's..... It also isn't a matter of "If Q85 can have a short stint in rosedale so can the Q5" - that's a rather childish way of thinking.... If you want to provide local service for those folks down around Weller lane, it'd be far more sensical to send Q85's down there, as to not overserve Rosedale (compared to what you're suggesting) - which is exactly what would happen if you have Q85's AND Q5's going down there in any capacity.... The fact that you alluded to SELECT trips is meaningless.... It's still one too many Q5 (supposed) short turn trip to be extended to some cedarhurst.... Short turns exist for a reason, and running SELECT Q5's all the way out to cedarhurst defeats the purpose - Regardless if you truncate some Q5 locals for the Q5 LTD to Green Acres.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1630 Posted June 30, 2013 Well that is due to poor marketing and pricing. It is meant to take those in rosedale off X63s onto Q5/LIRR. If Q85 can have a short stint in rosedale so can the Q5 again it's a rush hour proposal not adding off-peak service to those parts as it isn't needed at least to an extent. However I did mention SELECT trips. In PM some locals are truncated for Q5 LTD extensions to green acres and select runs of LTD trips can go to rosedale. "Poor marketing and pricing" Yes, because when NYCT asks them nicely and bats their eyelashes, LIRR Is going to lower prices and market their fares to Queens residents. LIRR does not want these people on their trains. It is quite evident that, with the exception of the Port Washington Line due to its length, the LIRR does not want to host city residents. It's very subtle, but it's there - you notice it in the way that some city stations aren't long enough for full-length trains (heck, in some cases even Jamaica isn't long enough), the high fares, the crap frequency off-peak (and to some extent, even peak) at city stations, and even the design of the stations themselves - the ticket windows at Jamaica are out of the way for most people, there's no proper mezzanine with ticket machines in between the street and the platforms, and if you're disabled or have things you can't carry up the stairs, you have to go ALL the way to the AirTrain level and then back down to whatever platform you have to go to. Broken windows in the station house don't get repaired for weeks, and the bathrooms are so broken that passengers are directed to the AirTrain bathrooms. The lack of security at Jamaica Station is a glaring contrast to the spotless AirTrain terminal and the heavy police presence there. The message to Jamaica residents is clear: you're less than the people transferring cross-platform or the people coming from the airport. Connecting to the LIRR is nice and all, but you can't just wish away the fact that LIRR does not like to play nice with NYCT, and the fact that service and fares are intentionally designed to deter city residents from boarding trains. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1631 Posted June 30, 2013 LIRR does not want these people on their trains. I'm willing to say there's truth to that..... Although in an ideal transit setting (of balancement) this would be done.... But in the real world, you simply aren't gonna get NYC residents to take local buses to the RR (like you have local buses bringing NYC residents to the subway).... And that is not because of this notion that the LIRR is poorly priced & marketed.... You have some Nassau & Suffolk county patrons that utilize the LIRR themselves that feel some type of way about "city" patrons embarking on the LIRR...... That *this service is for us, not for you.... you're crowding "our" trains* type of attitude.... You already have the LI-ers that are miffed about paying taxes for (city) services they don't use - Matter fact, IINM, I think LilBlueFoxie said something along that effect.... So his bit about tryna take ppl. off x63's for extended Q5's that would bring those same ppl. to LIRR Rosedale to get to Manhattan, simply won't fly with those folks..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1632 Posted June 30, 2013 I'm willing to say there's truth to that..... Although in an ideal transit setting (of balancement) this would be done.... But in the real world, you simply aren't gonna get NYC residents to take local buses to the RR (like you have local buses bringing NYC residents to the subway).... And that is not because of this notion that the LIRR is poorly priced & marketed.... You have some Nassau & Suffolk county patrons that utilize the LIRR themselves that feel some type of way about "city" patrons embarking on the LIRR...... That *this service is for us, not for you.... you're crowding "our" trains* type of attitude.... You already have the LI-ers that are miffed about paying taxes for (city) services they don't use - Matter fact, IINM, I think LilBlueFoxie said something along that effect.... So his bit about tryna take ppl. off x63's for extended Q5's that would bring those same ppl. to LIRR Rosedale to get to Manhattan, simply won't fly with those folks..... not a single train from Suffolk county stops at Rosedale. Plus at rush hour no Babylon trains stop there. The trains that do stop at Rosedale however are from the far rockaway line and that's it the long beach trains only stop there on weekends. The far rockaway trains are too close to queens to be considered Nassau folks so those people lack the arrogance factor. Many people do use the trains at Rosedale and they can at least get feeder service at peak hours they do deserve it. However the uniticket will have to include subway connections at Penn and Atlantic terminal and some queens buses that would be very nice and cheaper to operate than having a bus like x63 go that deep into Rosedale it adds too much time most x63 riders are on merrick Blvd if folks want to get to Rosedale faster then use LIRR. X63 is geared towards merrick Blvd and linden. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1633 Posted June 30, 2013 Sadly he (QJT) doesn't get that.BS meant to downvote 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1634 Posted June 30, 2013 "Poor marketing and pricing" Yes, because when NYCT asks them nicely and bats their eyelashes, LIRR Is going to lower prices and market their fares to Queens residents. LIRR does not want these people on their trains. It is quite evident that, with the exception of the Port Washington Line due to its length, the LIRR does not want to host city residents. It's very subtle, but it's there - you notice it in the way that some city stations aren't long enough for full-length trains (heck, in some cases even Jamaica isn't long enough), the high fares, the crap frequency off-peak (and to some extent, even peak) at city stations, and even the design of the stations themselves - the ticket windows at Jamaica are out of the way for most people, there's no proper mezzanine with ticket machines in between the street and the platforms, and if you're disabled or have things you can't carry up the stairs, you have to go ALL the way to the AirTrain level and then back down to whatever platform you have to go to. Broken windows in the station house don't get repaired for weeks, and the bathrooms are so broken that passengers are directed to the AirTrain bathrooms. The lack of security at Jamaica Station is a glaring contrast to the spotless AirTrain terminal and the heavy police presence there. The message to Jamaica residents is clear: you're less than the people transferring cross-platform or the people coming from the airport. Connecting to the LIRR is nice and all, but you can't just wish away the fact that LIRR does not like to play nice with NYCT, and the fact that service and fares are intentionally designed to deter city residents from boarding trains. well at jamacia LIRR only saves 10 mins so your better off with the anyway. Besides stations in west queens like Kew gardens are redundant Rosedale however is not look at the schedule of trains and you will notice it's a far rockaway station the only deep in LI line to stop there is the long beach line weekends only. Babylon only serves Rosedale at late night. Now I think about it it is smarter to transfer that LIRR branch to the subway due to distance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1635 Posted June 30, 2013 not a single train from Suffolk county stops at Rosedale. Plus at rush hour no Babylon trains stop there. The trains that do stop at Rosedale however are from the far rockaway line and that's it the long beach trains only stop there on weekends. The far rockaway trains are too close to queens to be considered Nassau folks so those people lack the arrogance factor. Many people do use the trains at Rosedale and they can at least get feeder service at peak hours they do deserve it. However the uniticket will have to include subway connections at Penn and Atlantic terminal and some queens buses that would be very nice and cheaper to operate than having a bus like x63 go that deep into Rosedale it adds too much time most x63 riders are on merrick Blvd if folks want to get to Rosedale faster then use LIRR. X63 is geared towards merrick Blvd and linden. It's not about the riders who ride the LIRR, it's about the LIRR itself - they don't want city residents on their trains. (I also call the proximity argument as BS, since I know a fair amount of people in Great Neck, Floral Park, Elmont, and Valley Stream who have a negative, ignorant view of the city. Every single route designed explicitly for feeder ridership to the LIRR has failed. The Q79 failed, and the Q86 failed. The only reason the Q36 extension is doing better is because everyone is using to get to Jamaica and the train, not the LIRR. And what's this nonsense about high LIRR ridership at the city stations? Only Bayside cracks the top ten most used LIRR station at slightly above 8K per weekday, and that's not even very good. And that's the top station in the city - most of the stations, especially those in Southeast Queens, probably get an order of magnitude less. Heck, I know people who switched to a bus and the LIRR at Jamaica because they couldn't deal with the crappy frequency, so ridership certainly isn't rising. well at jamacia LIRR only saves 10 mins so your better off with the anyway. Besides stations in west queens like Kew gardens are redundant Rosedale however is not look at the schedule of trains and you will notice it's a far rockaway station the only deep in LI line to stop there is the long beach line weekends only. Babylon only serves Rosedale at late night. Now I think about it it is smarter to transfer that LIRR branch to the subway due to distance. It actually saves about 20 minutes or so. It also has better general on-time performance, or at least doesn't get stuck in the perpetual "there is train traffic ahead of us". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1636 Posted June 30, 2013 It's not about the riders who ride the LIRR, it's about the LIRR itself - they don't want city residents on their trains. (I also call the proximity argument as BS, since I know a fair amount of people in Great Neck, Floral Park, Elmont, and Valley Stream who have a negative, ignorant view of the city. Every single route designed explicitly for feeder ridership to the LIRR has failed. The Q79 failed, and the Q86 failed. The only reason the Q36 extension is doing better is because everyone is using to get to Jamaica and the train, not the LIRR. And what's this nonsense about high LIRR ridership at the city stations? Only Bayside cracks the top ten most used LIRR station at slightly above 8K per weekday, and that's not even very good. And that's the top station in the city - most of the stations, especially those in Southeast Queens, probably get an order of magnitude less. Heck, I know people who switched to a bus and the LIRR at Jamaica because they couldn't deal with the crappy frequency, so ridership certainly isn't rising. It actually saves about 20 minutes or so. It also has better general on-time performance, or at least doesn't get stuck in the perpetual "there is train traffic ahead of us". interesting but that LIRR feeder is just a part of a jamacia bound route even if those Q5 Rosedale users don't use LIRR they would at least use it to jamacia and now that part of Rosedale gains bus service. Q86 failed cause all it did was feed but this Q5 ltd extension does more than just feed the LIRR although it can double as that as well and Q5 is better than the Q85 speed wise. This extension would not cost much at all just 10 mins or less added to run time. Q79 was infrequent and had no other purpose this Q5 Rosedale extension is more than simply LIRR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share #1637 Posted June 30, 2013 BS meant to downvoteSounding guilty are we? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1638 Posted June 30, 2013 QJ kiss your B84 extention good bye. Bus managed to garner 12 riders (the first one I took) to the subway, and 9 to Gateway. The others (the other 6 I took) had 5-6 riders on average, but it's just the first day, so you cant make assumptions yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1639 Posted June 30, 2013 It's not about the riders who ride the LIRR..... Don't agree.... Long Island riders certainly influence the MTA not catering to city residents with LIRR trains.... not a single train from Suffolk county stops at Rosedale. Plus at rush hour no Babylon trains stop there. The trains that do stop at Rosedale however are from the far rockaway line and that's it the long beach trains only stop there on weekends. The far rockaway trains are too close to queens to be considered Nassau folks so those people lack the arrogance factor. Many people do use the trains at Rosedale and they can at least get feeder service at peak hours they do deserve it. However the uniticket will have to include subway connections at Penn and Atlantic terminal and some queens buses that would be very nice and cheaper to operate than having a bus like x63 go that deep into Rosedale it adds too much time most x63 riders are on merrick Blvd if folks want to get to Rosedale faster then use LIRR. X63 is geared towards merrick Blvd and linden. Many people do use the trains at Rosedale and they can at least get feeder service at peak hours they do deserve it. However the uniticket will have to include subway connections at Penn and Atlantic terminal and some queens buses that would be very nice and cheaper to operate than having a bus like x63 go that deep into Rosedale it adds too much time most x63 riders are on merrick Blvd if folks want to get to Rosedale faster then use LIRR. X63 is geared towards merrick Blvd and linden. A single suffolk train not stopping at Rosedale isn't the point... The point is, the attitudes of LIRR riders in Long Island themselves exist (which includes suffolk patrons).... Nassau residents on the Far Rockaway lack the arrogance factor b/c they're too close to Queens? Boy oh boy are you talking out of your behind with that one.... Lmao - go ahead & refer to Inwood, Cedarhurst, Woodmere, Gibson, Valley Stream as being in Queens & see the lack of a warm welcome you get..... They will DEFINITIVELY tell you that they are in Nassau county & will say anything that puts them as separate from being in "the city"..... There are enough ppl that use LIRR Rosedale but it is simply not "many"..... x63 isn't "geared" towards linden & merrick blvd's, it's "geared" towards merrick blvd & Rosedale...... The fact that most x63 riders are along Merrick & Linden is immaterial.... That has nothing to do with Rosedale. You just want to try to force x63 riders in Rosedale onto the LIRR with the whole suggesting of extending of Q5's down in that part of Rosedale..... From the agency's perspective, the aim should not be to intentionally get NYC residents onto the railroad to get to Manhattan when the subway is present.... This is exactly why the Q111 CARRIES down there along 147th (speaking of what's cheaper)... The select few are divided b/w taking x63's, driving, and taking the LIRR.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1640 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) not a single train from Suffolk county stops at Rosedale. Plus at rush hour no Babylon trains stop there. The trains that do stop at Rosedale however are from the far rockaway line and that's it the long beach trains only stop there on weekends. The far rockaway trains are too close to queens to be considered Nassau folks so those people lack the arrogance factor. Many people do use the trains at Rosedale and they can at least get feeder service at peak hours they do deserve it. However the uniticket will have to include subway connections at Penn and Atlantic terminal and some queens buses that would be very nice and cheaper to operate than having a bus like x63 go that deep into Rosedale it adds too much time most x63 riders are on merrick Blvd if folks want to get to Rosedale faster then use LIRR. X63 is geared towards merrick Blvd and linden. People living in Rosedale don't take the LIRR. Depending on what part of the town they live in most people take the Q85 at 243rd Street or the Stop at Francis Lewis and Sunrise Highway, the Q111 at 147th Avenue, or the Q5 at Hook Creek Blvd to Jamaica and take the E because it's cheaper. Why do you want to send the Q5 to 149th Avenue? That part of Rosedale is mostly residential houses. Edited June 30, 2013 by NY1635 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1641 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) People living in Rosedale don't take the LIRR. Depending on what part of the town they live in most people take the Q85 at 243rd Street or the Stop at Francis Lewis and Sunrise Highway, the Q111 at 147th Avenue, or the Q5 at Hook Creek Blvd to Jamaica and take the E because it's cheaper. Why do you want to send the Q5 to 149th Avenue? That part of Rosedale is mostly residential houses. He wants to try to have more of Rosedale taking the bus to the LIRR..... Edited June 30, 2013 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1642 Posted June 30, 2013 Don't agree.... Long Island riders certainly influence the MTA not catering to city residents with LIRR trains.... I meant that in the context of him saying "Oh, Suffolk riders suck, but Far Rockaway and Long Beach riders are the nicest people!" (Which is bs anyways) It doesn't matter what the attitude of riders on any specific train is, it matters what the GENERAL attitude of LIRR riders is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1643 Posted June 30, 2013 I meant that in the context of him saying "Oh, Suffolk riders suck, but Far Rockaway and Long Beach riders are the nicest people!" (Which is bs anyways) It doesn't matter what the attitude of riders on any specific train is, it matters what the GENERAL attitude of LIRR riders is. Alright, gotcha.... Yeah, this notion of the closer to Queens Long Islanders reside, the less of an attitude they exude, is total horseshit.... The irony is though, these are the same people that will brag & boast about how close to manhattan they are.... Go figure..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1644 Posted June 30, 2013 He wants to try to have more of Rosedale taking the bus to the LIRR..... well even if they don't take it to the LIRR they can just take em to jamacia increased transit access for rosedale regardless that LIRR connection is a side effect of Q5LTD extensions. QJ kiss your B84 extention good bye. Bus managed to garner 12 riders (the first one I took) to the subway, and 9 to Gateway. The others (the other 6 I took) had 5-6 riders on average, but it's just the first day, so you cant make assumptions yet. I know I found another way to get such a bus on linden it doesn't have to be the B84. However now I think about it it can extend deeper into brooklyn instead. People living in Rosedale don't take the LIRR. Depending on what part of the town they live in most people take the Q85 at 243rd Street or the Stop at Francis Lewis and Sunrise Highway, the Q111 at 147th Avenue, or the Q5 at Hook Creek Blvd to Jamaica and take the E because it's cheaper. Why do you want to send the Q5 to 149th Avenue? That part of Rosedale is mostly residential houses. Simple better access to jamacia it the true goal and that is why only Q5 LTD rosedale LIRR trips will extend via this routing Q86 failed because it tried to rely solely on the LIRR. It is only a rush peak hour extension. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1645 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Based on information gathered I think these changes can be done for SE queens: Q5 LTD extends half trips to rosedale 253rd street at 149th ave via the same routing as the X63 adding local service to that area that currently only has the X63 these trips will be slightly adjusted to meet LIRR trains at rosedale LIRR AM and PM. Other Q5 LTDs can go to green acres PM only the other Q5 local buses at green acres get rerouted to frances lewis blvd and replace Q111 chedarhurst these runs will also meet LIRR trains at rosedale. Improving connectivity to LIRR can be nice and with Q5 doing cedarhurst potential links to other parts of queens. Well that is due to poor marketing and pricing. It is meant to take those in rosedale off X63s onto Q5/LIRR. If Q85 can have a short stint in rosedale so can the Q5 again it's a rush hour proposal not adding off-peak service to those parts as it isn't needed at least to an extent. However I did mention SELECT trips. In PM some locals are truncated for Q5 LTD extensions to green acres and select runs of LTD trips can go to rosedale. well even if they don't take it to the LIRR they can just take em to jamacia increased transit access for rosedale regardless that LIRR connection is a side effect of Q5LTD extensions. Lol.... Now all of a sudden connecting those folks to the LIRR is a "side effect"..... Yeah aight man.... As far as giving those folks in that part of Rosedale (the x63 serves) local bus access towards Jamaica, Again - the Rosedale Q85's that end over by Huxley would be extended there before Q5's would, for that same purpose..... Edited June 30, 2013 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubBus Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1646 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Mostly everyone gets off at 179th, I agree... Quite a few people actually board the bus at 169th (from the ) surprisingly... I'm one of those that board the bus at 169. Get that seat, plus where I have the choice of the getting the (Q3) or (Q77) depending on the time of day... Edited June 30, 2013 by SubBus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1647 Posted June 30, 2013 I'm one of those that board the bus at 169. Get that seat, plus where I have the choice of the getting the (Q3) or (Q77) depending on the time of day... I just skipped all that to catch the Q43 at Parsons/Archer. The bus stops at 179th often stretch around the block. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q90 Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1648 Posted June 30, 2013 I got a Q40 extension. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201454117027722505932.0004de67d1129482f5c60&msa=0&ll=40.662679,-73.799769&spn=0.004444,0.010568 What do you guys think? Not necessary. The Q40's southern end is fine the way it is and I doubt anyone would use that segment. Much rather the Q40 be extended to the 165th Street bus terminal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share #1649 Posted June 30, 2013 I just skipped all that to catch the Q43 at Parsons/Archer. The bus stops at 179th often stretch around the block.The Q43 doesn't serve Parsons/Archer. Did you mean Sutphin/Archer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted June 30, 2013 Share #1650 Posted June 30, 2013 The Q43 doesn't serve Parsons/Archer. Did you mean Sutphin/Archer? Yep - mind slipped right there. Heck, sometimes there are crowds there, too. Especially when it's raining. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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