Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[qjtransitmaster]

What would be the point when it could just stay on francis lewis between northern & 32nd av..... It would also serve as a backup to the Q76, which doesn't have the greatest of service.......

 

I mean, really.... Try venturing to the areas you're suggesting buses run along......

Utopia to station road? Seriously now.....

 

to serve LIRR of course and many cross buses will take you to within walking distance of many areas on frances lewis. If Q76 needs more add more to it.

[qjtransitmaster]

And Manhattan-bound?

 

(off-peak only) the fare thing manhattan bound will be enforced like this you have xbus pass you pay to board or leave. $2.25 board to leave swipe confirm that is one way. Or pay $5.50 at last 4 boarding stops to enter. Anyone who got on before pays to leave you get off in the outerborough before manhattan you are charged $2.25 in manhattan it's $5.50.

 

At rush hour 100% closed -door due to alternatives and high ridership.

 

Open-door for only select routes (off-peak only). This will not apply to rush hour only express routes.

 

some routes that have both full-time LTD and local will remain 100% closed door.

 

Routes with unusually high off-peak ridership like BXM7 and X1 and BXM10 and 9 ect 100% closed door unless transfer stop in manhattan.

Edited November 28, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

to serve LIRR of course and many cross buses will take you to within walking distance of many areas on frances lewis. If Q76 needs more add more to it.

 

Your point about cross buses isn't making any sense.... why have it to where people would have to walk to francis lewis, if the bus can run up francis lewis without problem? That's exactly why I say the 31 would actually lose ridership if it did what you're suggesting... It would be more of an afterthought than what the current route is now.... Face it, you aren't gonna convince me that utopia, north of northern is a better option for the bus to run along, compared to francis lewis.....

 

....and it isn't about adding more service to the 76..... For starters, it's about where the Q76 takes you, compared to where the Q31 takes you.... 76 only goes as far as 165th bus terminal... 31 goes over there by sutphin (meaning, there's a good chance of more ppl. utilizing 31's over 76's if they're tryna get to areas w/i Jamaica if that suggestion of mine were to be implemented).... If it came down to shifting the 31 to utopia up past northern (like you're bringing up) or keeping it on bell, you may as well keep it on bell w/ the current indirect pattern that route has up in bayside.....

 

Again, Not putting buses on station road, regardless if the LIRR station is over there (is that what you're worried about?).... Riders do not gain anything by having buses run up utopia over there.... LIRR users over at Bayside aren't xferring to 31's along bell (some do it for the 13 though, but it still isn't in any significant fashion, as those folks up in bay terrace, etc. have their express buses)..... Virtually no one's gonna take the LIRR to the Q31 (or vice versa) @ LIRR auburndale anyway, so just drop it already.

Edited November 28, 2012 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

Your point about cross buses isn't making any sense.... why have it to where people would have to walk to francis lewis, if the bus can run up francis lewis without problem? That's exactly why I say the 31 would actually lose ridership if it did what you're suggesting... It would be more of an afterthought than what the current route is now.... Face it, you aren't gonna convince me that utopia, north of northern is a better option for the bus to run along, compared to francis lewis.....

 

....and it isn't about adding more service to the 76..... For starters, it's about where the Q76 takes you, compared to where the Q31 takes you.... 76 only goes as far as 165th bus terminal... 31 goes over there by sutphin (meaning, there's a good chance of more ppl. utilizing 31's over 76's if they're tryna get to areas w/i Jamaica if that suggestion of mine were to be implemented).... If it came down to shifting the 31 to utopia up past northern (like you're bringing up) or keeping it on bell, you may as well keep it on bell w/ the current indirect pattern that route has up in bayside.....

 

Again, Not putting buses on station road, regardless if the LIRR station is over there (is that what you're worried about?).... Riders do not gain anything by having buses run up utopia over there.... LIRR users over at Bayside aren't xferring to 31's along bell (some do it for the 13 though, but it still isn't in any significant fashion, as those folks up in bay terrace, etc. have their express buses)..... Virtually no one's gonna take the LIRR to the Q31 (or vice versa) @ LIRR auburndale anyway, so just drop it already.

 

ok and northern blvd may work. But I understand.

[aemoreira81]

Rockaways-related, even after the Rockaways have fully recovered:

 

The Q22 is the only east-west route for all of the Rockaways, and that route tends to get bunched up very frequently and be unreliable. To that end, I would propose restructuring all of the Rockaways routes as follows:

 

1. Q22: Truncate the western end of the route to Beach 116 Street. Very few riders travel from east of Beach 116 Street to west of Beach 116 Street who are not transferring to the Q35 route.

2. Extend the Q52 full-time to Far Rockaway using the Q22 routing. Additional stops would be added at Beach Channel Drive and Beach 67, 60, 51, and 40 Streets, on Seagirt Boulevard and Beach 32 and Beach 21 (eastbound)/Beach 20 (westbound), and St. John's Episcopal Hospital.

3. Introduce a new route, the Q62, using the route between Rockaway Park and Beach 35 Street, but then utilizing this route: remain on Beach Channel Drive, left on Beach 32 Street, right on Bayswater Avenue follow to Mott Avenue, right on Beach 20 Street, right on Cornaga Avenue, right on Beach 21 Street, into terminal, and stand. Return via a left at Mott and reverse. The hope is that this will separate riders who get off before the Beach 41 Street Houses area. This route, like the Q22, would end at Beach 116 Street where the Q35 also ends.

[qjtransitmaster]

Rockaways-related, even after the Rockaways have fully recovered:

 

The Q22 is the only east-west route for all of the Rockaways, and that route tends to get bunched up very frequently and be unreliable. To that end, I would propose restructuring all of the Rockaways routes as follows:

 

1. Q22: Truncate the western end of the route to Beach 116 Street. Very few riders travel from east of Beach 116 Street to west of Beach 116 Street who are not transferring to the Q35 route.

2. Extend the Q52 full-time to Far Rockaway using the Q22 routing. Additional stops would be added at Beach Channel Drive and Beach 67, 60, 51, and 40 Streets, on Seagirt Boulevard and Beach 32 and Beach 21 (eastbound)/Beach 20 (westbound), and St. John's Episcopal Hospital.

3. Introduce a new route, the Q62, using the route between Rockaway Park and Beach 35 Street, but then utilizing this route: remain on Beach Channel Drive, left on Beach 32 Street, right on Bayswater Avenue follow to Mott Avenue, right on Beach 20 Street, right on Cornaga Avenue, right on Beach 21 Street, into terminal, and stand. Return via a left at Mott and reverse. The hope is that this will separate riders who get off before the Beach 41 Street Houses area. This route, like the Q22, would end at Beach 116 Street where the Q35 also ends.

 

Err you overestimate rockaway's population. And well let Q35 do what this Q62 is instead closed door in brooklyn then extend it via this routing you have. And Q52 is too infrequent to replace anything it runs every 30 minutes at off-peak!!!!! Q52 is a good supplement to Q53 cause technically it is a Q53 trip that goes to arvene.

[Q43LTD]

Rockaways-related, even after the Rockaways have fully recovered:

 

The Q22 is the only east-west route for all of the Rockaways, and that route tends to get bunched up very frequently and be unreliable. To that end, I would propose restructuring all of the Rockaways routes as follows:

 

1. Q22: Truncate the western end of the route to Beach 116 Street. Very few riders travel from east of Beach 116 Street to west of Beach 116 Street who are not transferring to the Q35 route.

2. Extend the Q52 full-time to Far Rockaway using the Q22 routing. Additional stops would be added at Beach Channel Drive and Beach 67, 60, 51, and 40 Streets, on Seagirt Boulevard and Beach 32 and Beach 21 (eastbound)/Beach 20 (westbound), and St. John's Episcopal Hospital.

3. Introduce a new route, the Q62, using the route between Rockaway Park and Beach 35 Street, but then utilizing this route: remain on Beach Channel Drive, left on Beach 32 Street, right on Bayswater Avenue follow to Mott Avenue, right on Beach 20 Street, right on Cornaga Avenue, right on Beach 21 Street, into terminal, and stand. Return via a left at Mott and reverse. The hope is that this will separate riders who get off before the Beach 41 Street Houses area. This route, like the Q22, would end at Beach 116 Street where the Q35 also ends.

 

I'd have to disagree. There's no need to for a Q62. The Q22 and 52 are fine

[B35 via Church]

Rockaways-related, even after the Rockaways have fully recovered:

 

The Q22 is the only east-west route for all of the Rockaways, and that route tends to get bunched up very frequently and be unreliable. To that end, I would propose restructuring all of the Rockaways routes as follows:

 

1. Q22: Truncate the western end of the route to Beach 116 Street. Very few riders travel from east of Beach 116 Street to west of Beach 116 Street who are not transferring to the Q35 route.

 

2. Extend the Q52 full-time to Far Rockaway using the Q22 routing. Additional stops would be added at Beach Channel Drive and Beach 67, 60, 51, and 40 Streets, on Seagirt Boulevard and Beach 32 and Beach 21 (eastbound)/Beach 20 (westbound), and St. John's Episcopal Hospital.

 

3. Introduce a new route, the Q62, using the route between Rockaway Park and Beach 35 Street, but then utilizing this route: remain on Beach Channel Drive, left on Beach 32 Street, right on Bayswater Avenue follow to Mott Avenue, right on Beach 20 Street, right on Cornaga Avenue, right on Beach 21 Street, into terminal, and stand. Return via a left at Mott and reverse. The hope is that this will separate riders who get off before the Beach 41 Street Houses area. This route, like the Q22, would end at Beach 116 Street where the Q35 also ends.

 

1) Knowing ridership habits of the 22/35 in the rockaways, I get your logic....

However, you'd be putting riders west of B. 116th at the mercy of the Q35 (as few of them that they are).... Not sure if I like that....

 

2) Q52 is proof of a route that a lot of us thought looked good on paper, but for w/e reason, usage isn't reflecting how well we thought it would be.... In other words, people are still taking 53's towards the rockaways & xferring to 22's..... I was against doing that (extending it to far rock) when the route came to fruition, but I think now they may as well extend it to far rock, if ppl. are still taking 53's to 22's in noticable enough numbers.....

 

So I can agree with this idea by itself....

 

3) Pointless..... This looks to me like you simply want to give Bayswater service....

You want to truncate the Q22 to B. 116th, but have a route parallel the 22 from 116th, then turn up bayswater before ending over by Mott ?

[checkmatechamp13]

Err you overestimate rockaway's population. And well let Q35 do what this Q62 is instead closed door in brooklyn then extend it via this routing you have. And Q52 is too infrequent to replace anything it runs every 30 minutes at off-peak!!!!! Q52 is a good supplement to Q53 cause technically it is a Q53 trip that goes to arvene.

 

 

The Q53 is just supplementing the Q22, not replacing it.

 

In any case, I don't see a need for the Q62. It looks like aemoreria's trying to serve Bayswater, but you could just extend the Q22 over the old Q22A route.

Edited November 29, 2012 by checkmatechamp13

[aemoreira81]

Err you overestimate rockaway's population. And well let Q35 do what this Q62 is instead closed door in brooklyn then extend it via this routing you have. And Q52 is too infrequent to replace anything it runs every 30 minutes at off-peak!!!!! Q52 is a good supplement to Q53 cause technically it is a Q53 trip that goes to arvene.

 

 

The Q52 is every 30 minutes, but the Q53 is every 10 still. On the northern end, it should be seen if Broadway can do with 20 minute headways so that the Q52 and Q53 can then alternate, especially outside the summer months. The saved Q53 trips can then be redeployed on other LGA routes.

 

I'd have to disagree. There's no need to for a Q62. The Q22 and 52 are fine

 

 

The Q62 would essentially introduce service to an area that has no transit service, however...Bayswater. I was thinking about ending the Q62 in Arverne or Hammels, but you'd have too big a gap in service between Hammels and Rockaway Park. I agree with @qjtrainmaster's post of perhaps having the Q35 closed-door in Brooklyn (first stop being the Marine Park golf course) and run it perhaps to Arverne...but not all the way to Far Rockaway. The aim is that the Rockaways need better inter-area service and service out of it.

[B35 via Church]

The aim is that the Rockaways need better inter-area service and service out of it.

 

Then you extend the Q52 to far rockaway & leave the Q22 alone routing-wise....

 

If anything, the service you want to add by creating a new route (your 62), you may as well distribute it between adding service to an (extended) 52 & the current 22....

 

You can't tell me that service to Bayswater is more necessary than bettering service on the current 22/52....

[Q43LTD]

There's a reason why the Q22A was discontinued

[B35 via Church]

There's a reason why the Q22A was discontinued

 

Thank you.

 

Having a 22 that avoids seagirt & serves bayswater instead, heading towards 116th..... I'm really not seeing how many people would benefit greatly (or at all really) from that quite honestly....

 

Let's say you have someone that boards the current/real 22 & someone that boards his 62 @ Mott... they're both riding out to somewhere west of Beach 36th subway.... How much time would really be saved for someone taking a 62, over taking the 22..... I dunno, maybe it's just me.....

 

I'd rather distribute resources better, than what's being suggested.....

Edited November 29, 2012 by B35 via Church

[aemoreira81]

There's a reason why the Q22A was discontinued

 

 

The Q22A is what one would call a "franchise-holder" to prevent a competing operator from running service. It ran only during the AM rush hour when it did run. The Q111 beyond Rosedale to Cedarhurst is the last remaining example of a "franchise-holder" route remaining. One has to understand that to realize that Bayswater has never had actual levels of transit service.

Edited November 29, 2012 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

The Q22A is what one would call a "franchise-holder" to prevent a competing operator from running service. It ran only during the AM rush hour when it did run. The Q111 beyond Rosedale to Cedarhurst is the last remaining example of a "franchise-holder" route remaining. One has to understand that to realize that Bayswater has never had actual levels of transit service.

 

The point about franchising is moot though.....

 

How many people out there do you really think wanted buses traversing through Bayswater all times of the day.....

I mean, you'd have buses basically encircling that area; running up mott to bayswater av & down 32nd to get back to beach channel drive....

 

Some areas just doesn't warrant buses going through them.....

[aemoreira81]

The point about franchising is moot though.....

 

How many people out there do you really think wanted buses traversing through Bayswater all times of the day.....

I mean, you'd have buses basically encircling that area; running up mott to bayswater av & down 32nd to get back to beach channel drive....

 

Some areas just doesn't warrant buses going through them.....

 

 

Bayswater's demographics appear to be similar to that of the rest of eastern Far Rockaway. I can't imagine that they wouldn't welcome transit service. The Q22 as it is takes the loop the other way,and the A almost bisects the area.

[checkmatechamp13]

The Q22A is what one would call a "franchise-holder" to prevent a competing operator from running service. It ran only during the AM rush hour when it did run. The Q111 beyond Rosedale to Cedarhurst is the last remaining example of a "franchise-holder" route remaining. One has to understand that to realize that Bayswater has never had actual levels of transit service.

 

 

I heard that it used to run from something like 6AM to 6PM back in the 1970s.

 

And the last map I have that shows it has it down as 1 AM run and 1 PM run (the PM run was around 2PM IIRC. so I thought it was just a tripper or something). Is there some kind of school over by Dunbar Street?

[qjtransitmaster]

Bayswater's demographics appear to be similar to that of the rest of eastern Far Rockaway. I can't imagine that they wouldn't welcome transit service. The Q22 as it is takes the loop the other way,and the A almost bisects the area.

 

turns out running at am rush only was what killed Q22A how can a service be useful if it can't take you home from the but it can take you to the subway but it can't take you from no wonder it wasn't used!!!!! But I would try rush hour AM and PM and select runs there first.

 

But I would try enhancing Q52 before doing any change to the route.

[B35 via Church]

Bayswater's demographics appear to be similar to that of the rest of eastern Far Rockaway. I can't imagine that they wouldn't welcome transit service. The Q22 as it is takes the loop the other way,and the A almost bisects the area.

 

I'm specifically talking about Bayswater north of the ... You know, where the Q22a used to serve & where you have your 62 running through.... Anyway, Far rockaway doesn't have the seculsion that that part of bayswater has..... Most of the 22a's riders were schoolkids, not commuters riding to/from the subway & what not.... I don't get the sense that if you add service out there throughout the day, more commuters would use it... Matter fact, I think they'd shun it.....

 

The Q22 does what it does east of the Beach 36th st subway b/c Seagirt is far more dense..... Same reason the N31/32 & Q113 ends down there....

 

 

Is there some kind of school over by Dunbar Street?

Not at dunbar itself, but there's a school around where bayswater (av) spills into mott.... it's along mott as you pan north towards dunbar....

Edited November 29, 2012 by B35 via Church

[Q43LTD]

 

 

The Q22A is what one would call a "franchise-holder" to prevent a competing operator from running service. It ran only during the AM rush hour when it did run. The Q111 beyond Rosedale to Cedarhurst is the last remaining example of a "franchise-holder" route remaining. One has to understand that to realize that Bayswater has never had actual levels of transit service.

The Q22A had 2 trips a day. One in the morning, in the morning, one in the afternoon. I don't even think Bayswater wants full time transit service. It's like extending the Q53 further west of Rockaway Park. If there were to be a future service enhancement in the Rockaways, it will probably be a 52 extension to Far Rockaway.

[B35 via Church]

The Q22A had 2 trips a day. One in the morning, in the morning, one in the afternoon. I don't even think Bayswater wants full time transit service. It's like extending the Q53 further west of Rockaway Park. If there were to be a future service enhancement in the Rockaways, it will probably be a 52 extension to Far Rockaway.

 

Here, lemme nip this in the bud....

 

He was trying to say that the 22a (being what it was) made those folks out there less willing to want to take public transportation because of its service levels - as if to say, if the 22a never existed & some other route ran out there providing better levels of transit service, ridership would be high enough to have buses running through the neighborhood..... That's why I said that was a moot point (about franchising); it's not the existence of the 22a & its service levels as to why those patrons out there weren't using buses like that - It's the mentality of the people... You run more service in that (part of the) neighborhood & you will watch virtually empty buses run in that (part of the) neighborhood....

 

I hate to even bring this up, but it's the exact opposite of what went on in country club.... they a] had the service & b] had service to a particular destination & fought for that prior service they barely used that ran through their neighborhood..... whereas folks in bayswater didn't have an adequate level of service & never fought for the a] 22a itself & b] any boost of service to the 22a....

 

So what does that tell you.....

 

I do not believe in running new transit services to places where it's highly likely that patrons of those areas won't use it (or have a need for it).... Especially if said area is highly residential..... Not even for coverage.

Edited November 29, 2012 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Here, lemme nip this in the bud....

 

He was trying to say that the 22a (being what it was) made those folks out there less willing to want to take public transportation because of its service levels - as if to say, if the 22a never existed & some other route ran out there providing better levels of transit service, ridership would be high enough to have buses running through the neighborhood..... That's why I said that was a moot point (about franchising); it's not the existence of the 22a & its service levels as to why those patrons out there weren't using buses like that - It's the mentality of the people... You run more service in that (part of the) neighborhood & you will watch virtually empty buses run in that (part of the) neighborhood....

 

I hate to even bring this up, but it's the exact opposite of what went on in country club.... they a] had the service & b] had service to a particular destination & fought for that prior service they barely used that ran through their neighborhood..... whereas folks in bayswater never had the (high level of) service & never fought for the a] 22a itself & b] any boost of service to the 22a....

 

So what does that tell you.....

 

I do not believe in running new transit services to places where I don't think the patrons of those areas will use them (or have a need for them).... Especially if said area is highly residential..... Not even for coverage.

 

 

In this case I would make the Q22 be extend to Bayswater on weekdays every other trip.

[B35 via Church]

In this case I would make the Q22 be extend to Bayswater on weekdays every other trip.

 

For what? Because the Q22 exists..... Lol....

 

I wouldn't bother... Q22 is perfectly fine ending over there by the train station...

You'd only be marring things for current 22 riders with the problems that route has.... I get the sense that people aren't satisfied w/ current service on the 22 down in the rockaways... extending every other route to bayswater is not gonna help that cause..... extending the 52 to far rockaway would help that cause.....

 

...and speaking of the 52, while service to arverne from mainland Queens is great, service to far rockaway would only be more beneficial for the route overall (it would also aid in assisting the 22 b/w far rockaway & Bch. 91st/92nd [before the x-bay bridge]).... Far rockaway would then have direct service to Jamaica & direct service to QB/Woodhaven.... You cannot make a similar argument for a 22 extension to bayswater (regardless of how frequent you want to send buses up there).... Your strongest argument would be simple coverage to bayswater, not room for any serious growth potential on the 22 because of it....

 

Yeah, I know you aint say all that, but I'm still fin to say it to reinforce my point.

[Q43LTD]

I have potential stops for the 52 if it were extended to Mott Av

B 67

B 60

B 51 for Peninsula Hospital

B 44

B 36

Crest Rd

B 19 & Plainview for St Johns Episcopal

Mott Av

[qjtransitmaster]

hmm in response to B35's Q31 I am curious would swapping northern segments of Q76 and 31 work out? Like Q31 to college point via frances lewis north of 32nd ave. And Q76 not sure what to do with it afterwards so nothing for the moment.