Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #751 Posted August 16, 2012 Can you clarify that comment please? I don't understand. And can you respond to the question I left you with? I edited my comment, so you didn't catch it in time. No one wants to go that far on a bus. The B20 to the Q58 is enough for such a route. My Q51 is a better alternative to service, as it also services Central Queens and connects the QB line to Broadway Junction: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004c73badbed69b2babb&msa=0 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #752 Posted August 16, 2012 No one wants to go that far on a bus. The B20 to the Q58 is enough for such a route. My Q51 is a better alternative to service, as it also services Central Queens and connects the QB line to Broadway Junction: https://maps.google....d69b2babb&msa=0 Again, the route you proposed is very similar to mine. What makes it a "better alternative to service"? And why wouldn't "No one wants to go that far on a bus" apply to your route as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 16, 2012 Share #753 Posted August 16, 2012 I proposed the new Q53X service. (An even bigger baby mama express!) http://goo.gl/maps/rlP49 Operates between 23 Street / 45 Avenue & Rockaway Park-Beach 116 Street A S station, Queens Via Queens Blvd, Woodhaven Blvd, Crossbay Blvd. I'm not sure why you're calling this a baby mama express, but at best, this would take some ppl. off the Q60 (b/w 33rd st & 63rd dr... that stint).... (yeah, I miss the old Q53 also; but its time & purpose has past)... People from the rockaways would still ride your super express to QB for the subway..... There's a bigger demand for Queens Plz. than there is for court sq. due to the amt. of bus connections in the area.... The thing w/ the Q60 is, east of elmhurst (grand av) usage is somewhat sporadic - up until you get to the 48th st/greenpoint av area, then you start picking up folks that are tryna get to Queens Plz. or East Midtown itself...... My Q51 is a better alternative to service, as it also services Central Queens and connects the QB line to Broadway Junction Yeah, but your route mainly only helps Queens riders.... It wouldn't do much of anything for Brooklyn riders.... "Brooklyn" is trying to improve connectivity b/w the two boroughs, for riders in both boroughs...... (before you come with that argument, just having it "technically" running in Brooklyn isn't enough) Again, the route you proposed is very similar to mine. What makes it a "better alternative to service"? And why wouldn't "No one wants to go that far on a bus" apply to your route as well? Both of y'alls routes have different purposes.... For starters, his route is a lot shorter than yours & wouldn't be slowed down by near as much traffic as yours would..... As far as a "better alternative to service", he's filling a gap in service that currently exists.... Whereas your idea makes a current 3-4 bus trip into one via overlapping current services..... Only issue I have w/ his route is that it wouldn't really do much for Brooklyn residents.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #754 Posted August 16, 2012 For starters, his route is a lot shorter than yours & wouldn't be slowed own by near as much traffic as yours would..... As far as a "better alternative to service", he's filling a gap in service that currently exists.... Whereas your idea makes a current 3-4 bus trip into one via overlapping current services..... Only issue I have w/ his route is that it wouldn't really do much for Brooklyn residents.... Well, thank you for an explanation. But as I said, service to Gateway Mall was only an idea. The core of the route would be from Bway junction to Roosevelt-Jackson Heights and would make limited stops. It would make about 10 or 11 stops only. Just because it overlaps for part of its route doesn't make it "unnecessary". If that were the case, then several NYC bus routes would be "unnecessary". As I wanted to say to the previous commenter, why would someone want to transfer from a local to a local to a local to complete the trip that one semi-express bus can male? A "gap" as you call it would be filled as there is no straight route going to where I proposed. As for ridership, I am sure, in this case, if you build it, they will come. The route the other commenter proposed would get good ridership too. You will be surprised how many people from Brooklyn want to get to Queens. There needs to be more North-South Brooklyn Queens routes. I was just wondering why the commentor objected to my route even though his route does many of the same things mine does, but goes east to Continental, that's all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 16, 2012 Share #755 Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Well, thank you for an explanation. But as I said, service to Gateway Mall was only an idea. The core of the route would be from Bway junction to Roosevelt-Jackson Heights and would make limited stops. It would make about 10 or 11 stops only. Just because it overlaps for part of its route doesn't make it "unnecessary". If that were the case, then several NYC bus routes would be "unnecessary". As I wanted to say to the previous commenter, why would someone want to transfer from a local to a local to a local to complete the trip that one semi-express bus can male? A "gap" as you call it would be filled as there is no straight route going to where I proposed. As for ridership, I am sure, in this case, if you build it, they will come. The route the other commenter proposed would get good ridership too. You will be surprised how many people from Brooklyn want to get to Queens. There needs to be more North-South Brooklyn Queens routes. I was just wondering why the commentor objected to my route even though his route does many of the same things mine does, but goes east to Continental, that's all. Well you're welcome.... Look, I'll say this man..... There's a difference between filling an existing service gap & drawing up a route that's a combination of multiple routes.... That doesn't make your route too much more necessary either..... turning a 3-4 bus commute that almost completely parallels pre-existing services into a 1 seat ride does not fill a service gap - what it does do is make commuting easier for whatever people that would opt to utilize said route b/w the 2 boroughs...... The easiest example of that concept is the express bus network in this city {heading to/from manhattan}, compared to taking a swath of local buses to get to manhattan (well the queens & the bronx ones anyway, since those are the only 2 boroughs now that have local bus service to manhattan)..... express buses aren't a near exact duplicate of a combination of local routes..... the reason for that is quite obvious...... If I have no money, and someone gave me 4 quarters, I netted one whole dollar.... If I have the same 4 quarters & gave em to someone for a dollar bill, I netted zero dollars - But I no longer have the worry of lugging around coins.... Anyway, "part" of its route? Almost 100% of that route you're suggesting overlaps existing services.... that fact can't be minimized so easily...... Sure, of course there are ppl. in Brooklyn that want to get to Queens, nobody's denying that.... That doesn't mean you draw up any ole north/south route that physically runs between Brooklyn & Queens b/c connectivity isn't the greatest.... You have to think about who/what particular group of riders would really benefit from such a route, and how efficiently that purpose can be carried out.... Your route from point A to point B is not all that efficient.... Doesn't matter how few stops are on it, if it doesn't meet the needs of the people, then forget about it.... You say "if they build it, they will come", and I say everyone can't have a 1 seat ride..... Outside of simple basic connectivity between the 2 boroughs, your routing suggestion addresses nothing specific.... That's why demand is sittin up here being questioned..... Outside of everything said above, I actually agree w/ this part of your post: As I wanted to say to the previous commenter, why would someone want to transfer from a local to a local to a local to complete the trip that one semi-express bus can make? That is why replied to his route saying his route mainly benefits Queens riders & doesn't really do much for Brooklyn folks..... Which is also why I said both of y'alls routes have different purposes...... ------------ aye, so that's my 2 cents - I don't even ask that you take it..... Anything else you asked about regarding threxx's comments will have to be addressed by threxx himself. Edited August 16, 2012 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #756 Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) Thank you again. Buses are associated with being slow, and rightfully so. If you advertise a semi-express service making not too many stops, that might draw people. As for ridership: health care workers, food service workers etc. People might want to check out the OUTSTANDING malls and shops along Queens BLVD. You really don't have this in East NY (sure you have shops on Pennsylvania and Flatlands, but nothing like Queens). You don't have this in Bushwick except along Broadway. Why not give these residents more options? Edited August 16, 2012 by Brooklyn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #757 Posted August 16, 2012 @B35: That's true, but it also gives Bushwick riders another connection to Broadway Junction, I didn't want to route it to Ridgewood Terminal because it's already crowded enough there... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 16, 2012 Share #758 Posted August 16, 2012 @B35: That's true, but it also gives Bushwick riders another connection to Broadway Junction, I didn't want to route it to Ridgewood Terminal because it's already crowded enough there... Yeah, for that, I don't blame you - there are enough buses over there at/around Ridgewood term..... Thank you again. Buses are associated with being slow, and rightfully so. If you advertise a semi-express service making not too many stops, that might draw people. As for ridership: health care workers, food service workers etc. People might want to check out the OUTSTANDING malls and shops along Queens BLVD. You really don't have this in East NY (sure you have shops on Pennsylvania and Flatlands, but nothing like Queens). You don't have this in Bushwick except along Broadway. Why not give these residents more options? Sure, np.... All I really have to say is, I'm not knocking the basic idea of a semi-express route - I'm knocking the semi-express bus routing your route takes..... If you can find a more efficient way to bringing those same workers & shoppers you speak of to QB, I'm all eyes...... Having a route run along fresh pond & grand to get to QB would drive Brooklynites nuts...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #759 Posted August 16, 2012 Yeah, for that, I don't blame you - there are enough buses over there at/around Ridgewood term..... Sure, np.... All I really have to say is, I'm not knocking the basic idea of a semi-express route - I'm knocking the semi-express bus routing your route takes..... If you can find a more efficient way to bringing those same workers & shoppers you speak of to QB, I'm all eyes...... Having a route run along fresh pond & grand to get to QB would drive Brooklynites nuts...... Ok, much clearer now. I will rework it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #760 Posted August 16, 2012 Ok, much clearer now. I will rework it. I routed it on streets with less traffic, and cut it back to Broadway Junction. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=213458373195564989412.0004c74f938a3d4ef2512&msa=0&ll=40.676082,-73.911424&spn=0.018845,0.038495 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #761 Posted August 16, 2012 ^^^^^^ Excellent work! Now, I am going to propose this to the MTA. How does that sound? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #762 Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) So I will have the stops at: Broadway Junction Broadway/Rockaway Avenue Broadway/Halsey St Broadway/Gates Makes a right on Gates then Gates/Wilson Gates/Myrtle and Wyckoff Avs Gates/Forest av makes a left on Forest then Forest and Metropolitan Makes a right on Metropolitan, left on Eliot then Eliot and Fresh Pond Road Eliot and 69th st Left on 69th then 69th and LIE 69th and Calamus/51st avs 69th and Queens Blvd 69th and roosevelt then finally Roosevelt Av Jackson Heights SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN!!!! 15 Stops and VERY GOOD RIDERSHIP--people are definitely going to take it at Myrtle and Wyckoff and Bway Junction to get into Queens. I see this used very well in the Queens portion of the route as there is sort of a transportation "hole" in that leg. You could possibly omit a couple stops like Wilson Av and one of them along Broadway. This seems like an efficient, relatively quick route. I think a trip should be 45 minutes or so and well under the hour and change the trip will take by subway and local buses. Edited August 16, 2012 by Brooklyn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #763 Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) So I will have the stops at: Broadway Junction Broadway/Rockaway Avenue Broadway/Halsey St Broadway/Gates Makes a right on Gates then Gates/Wilson Gates/Myrtle and Wyckoff Avs Gates/Forest av makes a left on Forest then Forest and Metropolitan Makes a right on Metropolitan, left on Eliot then Eliot and Fresh Pond Road Eliot and 69th st Left on 69th then 69th and LIE 69th and Calamus/51st avs 69th and Queens Blvd 69th and roosevelt then finally Roosevelt Av Jackson Heights SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN!!!! 15 Stops and VERY GOOD RIDERSHIP--people are definitely going to take it at Myrtle and Wyckoff and Bway Junction to get into Queens. I see this used very well in the Queens portion of the route as there is sort of a transportation "hole" in that leg. You could possibly omit a couple stops like Wilson Av and one of them along Broadway. This seems like an efficient, relatively quick route. I think a trip should be 45 minutes or so and well under the hour and change the trip will take by subway and local buses. Go ahead, you did have the original concept, it just needed some tweaking. Also, for a bullet, I recommend Q70 LTD... I actually think there are too many stops, I cut a few... https://maps.google....009418,0.019248 Edited August 16, 2012 by Threxx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #764 Posted August 16, 2012 I will contact the MTA. Hopefully they will listen. I will make a clear map of the route and write a letter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 16, 2012 Share #765 Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) I changed the route a bit, it now has 2 branches, one going to QUEENS PLAZA, another going to Roosevelt Avenue Station. http://goo.gl/maps/C8wCB The reason I kept the Queens Blvd Branch is because it lets the Q60 have a limited service. Here's how service goes: Service starts at 8AM, to Rockaway Park only, every 15 mins. At 10AM, Jackson Heights - Queens Plaza service starts, and leaves every 20 mins. At around 8PM, Rockaway Park service ends, and northbound buses leave every 15 mins. At 10PM Q53X service in both direction ends. Any more suggestions/comments? EDIT: Whoops, accidentally posted the wrong link, I fixed it! Edited August 16, 2012 by TrainFanInfinity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #766 Posted August 16, 2012 I will contact the MTA. Hopefully they will listen. I will make a clear map of the route and write a letter. Oh, the clear map, I got that covered... I changed the route a bit, it now has 2 branches, one going to QUEENS PLAZA, another going to Roosevelt Avenue Station. http://goo.gl/maps/mrpGu The reason I kept the Queens Blvd Branch is because it lets the Q60 have a limited service. Any more suggestions/comments? There's nothing there... lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #767 Posted August 16, 2012 UPDATE: I am creating a schedule for the Q70, it is every 15 minutes at rush, every 20 minutes pre-rush, and every 30 minutes all other times. There is no weekend service. http://scaped.net/bus/Q70 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Posted August 16, 2012 Share #768 Posted August 16, 2012 ^^^^ LOL. I meant one that had text insets and colors explaining the route and the stops: kind of like what you would see in a publication (adobe illustrator). Sometimes, presentation is everything. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted August 16, 2012 Share #769 Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) I fixed the link, thank you Threxx for telling me about that error. Btw, a suggestion: Extend the Q70 with the Q33 to make a Q33 Limited to LaGuardia Airport, then there would be a connection b/w Broadway Junction & Jackson Heights, as well as LaGuardia Airport. Edited August 16, 2012 by TrainFanInfinity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #770 Posted August 16, 2012 I fixed the link, thank you Threxx for telling me about that error. Btw, a suggestion: Extend the Q70 with the Q33 to make a Q33 Limited to LaGuardia Airport, then there would be a connection b/w Broadway Junction & Jackson Heights, as well as LaGuardia Airport. No, too long.... way too long. People can transfer to the Q47 on 69th Street or the Q33 at 74th Street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share #771 Posted August 16, 2012 UPDATE: The schedule for the Q70 in the direction of Jackson Heights is done. Service on the Q70 LTD runs from 5 AM to 8 PM. http://scaped.net/bus/Q70 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 17, 2012 Share #772 Posted August 17, 2012 Or we can simply extend Q18 via 69th to ridgewood and Q38 after splitting it letting eliot ave branch go to broadway jct. Your Q51 can interline with Q64 done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 17, 2012 Share #773 Posted August 17, 2012 Or we can simply extend Q18 via 69th to ridgewood and Q38 after splitting it letting eliot ave branch go to broadway jct. Your Q51 can interline with Q64 done. No, that won't accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. As for the Q51/64, I wanted to combine the two routes, but Q64 riders wouldn't be happy about that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 17, 2012 Share #774 Posted August 17, 2012 No, that won't accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. As for the Q51/64, I wanted to combine the two routes, but Q64 riders wouldn't be happy about that... Did you speak with riders in person? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 17, 2012 Share #775 Posted August 17, 2012 I don't feel like quoting, so I'll do it like this: - Threxx's reworking of Brooklyn's Brooklyn-Queens route would be faster than Brooklyn's original suggestion, but then the problem would be drawing in riders..... catch-22 basically...... I'm all for trying to improve connectivity b/w the 2 boroughs by way of surface transportation also, but I also think a little more thought has to be put in, in thinking up a route to try to draw in as many Brooklyn riders tryna get to Queens, and Queens riders tryna get to Brooklyn as you can, as well as doing so as quickly & efficient as possible..... For starters, there's nothing around QB/69th where a Brooklynite would be itching to get to.... all the "action" (so to speak) along QB is well east of that point...... - TrainFanInfinity, While I still don't think your Q53x is necessary, I'll still throw in a suggestion.... If you're gonna have it serve both Court sq. & Queens plz, you may as well have WB buses stay on thomson to serve court sq first, to then go on to terminate in Queens plz. somewhere.... having buses utilize Queens plz. south (instead of Queens plz north) is more feasible, and having EB buses run along jackson b/w Queens plz & thomson is a little quicker (than that portion along Queens blvd b/w jackson & van dam)..... You can still have buses run along 23rd st or w/e.... - QJT, I thought about extending the Q18 southward in the past also, but it seems to me that riders are content w/ the Q18 ending over there off Grand st.... As far as Threxx's "Q51", I think it would accomplish enough for Queens riders.... There wouldn't be much of a point combining it with the Q64, since riders bombard that Q64 to get to/from kew gdns hills & electchester... Too many riders would get pissed off if that were to happen - remember, ever since the old 74 got eliminated, people have resorted to taking 64's to get to their destinations around that area as well..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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