official Subway - What If?

[2 Train Master]

to 145th St.

to Fordham Rd.

to Burnside Av. or Kingsbridge since there's switches after the station N/B.

 

Was it so hard?

An addition to shuttle buses providing service between Woodlawn/Norwood to south stations.

Edited February 2, 2015 by 2 Train Master

[MTA Dude]

 

to 145th St.

to Fordham Rd.

to Burnside Av. or Kingsbridge since there's switches after the station N/B.

 

Was it so hard?

 

 

Wha?

[CenSin]

My plan is far from perfect, but to me it's the best for what would be a very bad situation and shows there are some additional things needed that would turn out to be essential in the event we ever had something like the Willy B and Manny B happen.

To me, operational flexibility is very important and being able to at least have trains stop where possible, even if it's not always the normal route.

I've addressed the points that underscore how it's far from perfect. It's only right to fix those points. In my opinion (and I try to think like the MTA would), the MTA would never implement something with all of these flaws. Their first priority is to make sure things flow as smooth as possible to the best of their ability. You're thought process is counter to that. It's not a request to conform, but to come up with solutions that avoid operational problems which eventually become problems for passengers. If best possible service for passengers is your end goal, I'm shocked that you never think about these things. Or maybe that's not your goal?

 

This is my answer to your service:

 

 

Here are the TPH figures for the different routes. I'm sure some routes have had additional trains added per hour since then, so assume the TPH is actually a bit higher than stated.

 

You mean to tell us that World Trade Center can handle 20 TPH and that Broadway–Lafayette Street's local track can handle 30 TPH while the switches at West 4 Street–Washington Square, Canal Street, and 2 Avenue are in active use. Keep in mind that for this to work, the must already be on the local track at West 4 Street–Washington Square. That means that at that one station, 34 TPH must go through the local track southbound. Northbound trains can use the switches west of Broadway–Lafayette Street.

 

It's hardly normal 6 Avenue service, and you've also inconvenienced those on 8 Avenue.

 

You still need to address this. A is not possible in this scenario absent of track reconfiguration.

 

Mainly as was suggested building the Franklin Avenue Shuttle at least somewhat back to a full station at Botanic Garden or even fully rebuilding the Frankling Avenue Shuttle to two tracks and 480'/600' platforms (the latter I'd be looking at anyway as part of a Myrtle-Brighton line that would also include a connection to the Broadway-Brooklyn line for emergencies and/or G.O.'s that require a re-route, using that (in normal situations) to reach the 6th Avenue line).

I'm not sure which requires more money and effort though… so I can't really argue whether this is doable or not. Rebuilding something that has been damaged or destroyed is going to attract much less opposition than building a whole new structure passing in front of a residential area.

 

Having the sub for the on Queens Bouelvard on weekends to me makes sense if you have to truncate the .  If you don't have to on weekdays, then you run everything normal (other than having all of the Broadway lines in the tunnel).

If this line runs through Queens Boulevard, Broadway, and through downtown Manhattan to DeKalb Avenue in Brooklyn, you might as well call it an . Reducing passenger confusion is important, and it also reduces the amount of information that has to be crammed on a map or sign. There's beauty in simplicity.

 

I'd also be building a new connection from the Culver to the West End tracks at Coney Island to allow when needed for more easy through service at Coney Island between Culver and the West End.

That doesn't really solve the problem. You see, this is the current layout and it's utilized maximally with little waste:

 

This was what you proposed before:

 

This is after you've made the connection from the Culver to the West End:

Track 7 used to be connected to track 6, so we know this to be possible. But even with the connection, there is single-tracking, and both and train in both directions must use that one track. This could probably be fixed, but you'd still have other problems with running service through Coney Island.

 

One problem is the fact that both routes will have many stations listed twice such as Bay Parkway, 18 Avenue, and Fort Hamilton Parkway.

 

The other problem is how circuitous the route is. People going to Manhattan from the West End side will have to take a train that goes on a detour, or get off at 36 Street for a transfer. Also, the transfer options are limited compared to what they could get if they got off at Atlantic Avenue. You could extend the further to Atlantic Avenue, but it'd be quite confusing since the route would end up intersecting with itself.

 

The better idea would be to avoid construction for a questionable route, and just run a shuttle between Atlantic Avenue and Coney Island as the MTA veritably did during Manhattan Bridge work a decade ago.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

Bedford Park Blvd has collapsed on its self due to a sinkhole that has happened between Both Bedford Park Blvd Lehman Collge and Bedford Pk Blvd . The station is unstable with the fear of it collapsing on its self.

 

Reroute!

 

Ooh and near my home stations as well...

 

to 145 St

to 161 St

to Burnside Ave

 

Free shuttle buses operate between Burnside and Woodlawn.

[CenSin]

Ooh and near my home stations as well...

 

to 145 St

to 161 St

to Burnside Ave

 

Free shuttle buses operate between Burnside and Woodlawn.

Fordham Road on the Grand Concourse line can be used as a terminal as well, no?

See this reply:

 

 

to 145th St.

to Fordham Rd.

to Burnside Av.

 

Was it so hard?

[Sparen of Iria]

Fordham Road on the Grand Concourse line can be used as a terminal as well, no?

See this reply:

 

Yes. You could turn trains at Fordham and trains at 167th or Tremont.

[BronxBombers]

Track fire at West 4th St on the downtown 8th av tracks. Uptown tracks are unusable because of the fire. Signal problems at 42 St-Bryant Park delaying northbound local trains. Plus sick passenger at 59th St on the downtown express tracks. It's rush hour btw.

 

EDIT: Downtown switches south of W4 can't be used.. Uptown switches can be used.

 

Reroute,

Edited February 3, 2015 by BronxBombers

[cl94]

Track fire at West 4th St on the downtown 8th av tracks. Uptown tracks are unusable because of the fire. Signal problems at 42 St-Bryant Park delaying northbound local trains. Plus sick passenger at 59th St on the downtown express tracks. It's rush hour btw.

 

EDIT: Downtown switches south of W4 can't be used.. Uptown switches can be used.

 

Reroute,

 

Okay, let's see:

 

Switches to local track north of 59th heading downtown, then runs via the to Jay St via Rutgers, switching to local north of 34th. Uptown runs via Cranberry, using the north of W4 but running local on 6th Avenue south of 34th

Suspended to avoid having 5 services use one track north of 34th

Same as

Switches to local track just north of 59th heading downtown

Suspended south of 34th Street, terminates on express tracks

Switches to express track north of 34th heading uptown

Runs to Chambers

[Fresh Pond]

Track fire at West 4th St on the downtown 8th av tracks. Uptown tracks are unusable because of the fire. Signal problems at 42 St-Bryant Park delaying northbound local trains. Plus sick passenger at 59th St on the downtown express tracks. It's rush hour btw.

 

EDIT: Downtown switches south of W4 can't be used.. Uptown switches can be used.

 

Reroute,

Watch Wallyhorse come with some illogical idea lol

 

Obviously W 4 Is bypassed...

 

via CPW local, 6 Av and Rutgers in both directions

suspended

Euclid Av to High St

via CPW local

via 6 Av and terminates at 2 Av

via Crosstown

Metropolitan Av to Broad St

[2 Train Master]

Track fire at West 4th St on the downtown 8th av tracks. Uptown tracks are unusable because of the fire. Signal problems at 42 St-Bryant Park delaying northbound local trains. Plus sick passenger at 59th St on the downtown express tracks. It's rush hour btw.

 

EDIT: Downtown switches south of W4 can't be used.. Uptown switches can be used.

 

Reroute,

All N/B service remains normal.

For S/B service,

Normal service since there isn't any switches on the express after W4 the (A)'s trip is unaffected.

runs via 8th Av Express after 59th St.

terminates at Whitehall St runs via line after Queens Plaza

suspended

Runs in two sections between 205th and Herald Sq. Coney Island to 36th St. Thats where people can transfer to the for at Herald Sq.

runs via Crosstown S/B,normal service N/B.

Regular service N/B, S/B terminates at W4th since the switches are usable north of the station.

[Javier]

A train catches fire at 59 Street Columbus Circle on the platform. The station can not be used or be passed through.

 

Also, a R160 has lost its brakes and rammed into a R68 at Brighton Beach, throwing trains parts everywhere. This will take a month to fix as the collision has broken the rails, damaged the station structure and so forth.

 

Reroute!

[P3F]

A train catches fire at 59 Street Columbus Circle on the platform. The station can not be used or be passed through.

 

Also, a R160 has lost its brakes and rammed into a R68 at Brighton Beach, throwing trains parts everywhere. This will take a month to fix as the collision has broken the rails, damaged the station structure and so forth.

 

Reroute!

Brighton:

ends at Kings Highway southbound.

ends at Kings Highway southbound.

 

Shuttle buses run with the following stops:

-Flatbush Avenue / Brooklyn College

-Kings Highway

-Avenue U

-Neck Road

-Sheepshead Bay

-Brighton Beach

-Ocean Parkway

-West 8th Street

-Coney Island / Stillwell Avenue

B3K from 2010-2011 is revived and runs its former route from Gerritsen Avenue / Avenue U to Kings Highway during all rush hours.

 

Columbus Circle:

runs in two sections:

-207th Street to 72nd Street, via CPW Express and switching to local north of 72nd Street.

-Queens Plaza to Far Rockaway / Lefferts Boulevard.

ends at Chambers Street northbound.

ends at 42nd Street northbound.

runs in two sections:

-205th Street to 72nd Street, via Local.

-42nd Street to Coney Island.

 

Shuttle buses run with the following stops:

-72nd Street on CPW

-59th Street / Columbus Circle

-50th Street / 8th Avenue

-7th Avenue / 53rd Street

-47-50 Streets / Rockefeller Center

-42nd Street / 6th Avenue

Edited February 4, 2015 by P3F

[Wallyhorse]

Track fire at West 4th St on the downtown 8th av tracks. Uptown tracks are unusable because of the fire. Signal problems at 42 St-Bryant Park delaying northbound local trains. Plus sick passenger at 59th St on the downtown express tracks. It's rush hour btw.

 

EDIT: Downtown switches south of W4 can't be used.. Uptown switches can be used.

 

Reroute, A/B/C/D/E/F/M

An absolute mess!! Expect delays on the 6th Avenue line during peak periods!

 

is split as follows:

Trains to Lefferts Boulevard run local on CPW and 6th Avenue (switching to the local 6th Avenue tracks after 42nd) and then via Rutgers to Jay Street-Borough Hall before resuming regular route.

 

Trains to Far Rockaway start at Canal Street (on the express tracks) and run regular route otherwise.

 

Single-track shuttle runs between Canal and Spring Street on the uptown local track.

 

Shuttle bus operates between on a loop Canal Street and Broadway-Lafayette on the 6th Avenue Line, stopping at Spring Street and Houston Street (block closest to West 4th) on 6th Avenue and Houston Street/Broadway (for 6th Avenue trains) and also Prince Street and Broadway for Broadway Line trains.

 

is suspended

runs from Canal Street (express tracks) to Euclid Avenue ONLY!!

 

runs normal route to 145th Street, then via the CPW and 6th Avenue locals in Manhattan (switching to the local track south of 42nd Street) and then to the 2nd Avenue station, where it terminates

 

is truncated to 34th Street-Penn Station and run on the express tracks.  Select trains continue to 14th Street where such trains terminate (23rd Street is skipped on such trains). 

 

If necessary, select trains operate via the between Roosevelt Avenue and Bergen Street.

 

is extended to 71st-Continental to replace the on Queens Boulevard.

 

If necessary, and are extended via Montague and the Brighton Line to Brighton Beach to replace the in Brooklyn.

 

is rerouted to Broad Street on the Nassau Line after Essex Street and then via its old route via Montauge, 4th Avenue and the West End to Coney Island to replace the in Brooklyn.  From 6th Avenue, transfer from the or at Essex-Delancey in Manhattan OR Jay Street in Brooklyn for the that replaces the . 

[Fresh Pond]

Called it...

[2 Train Master]

A train catches fire at 59 Street Columbus Circle on the platform. The station can not be used or be passed through.

 

Also, a R160 has lost its brakes and rammed into a R68 at Brighton Beach, throwing trains parts everywhere. This will take a month to fix as the collision has broken the rails, damaged the station structure and so forth.

 

Reroute!

runs between 207th and 125th via local. Also between Far Rockaway and Penn Station via local.

suspended.

runs between 57th-7th Av and Kings Hwy.

runs between 205th and 145th, also 34th St-Herald Sq and Coney Island.

[Fresh Pond]

A train catches fire at 59 Street Columbus Circle on the platform. The station can not be used or be passed through.

 

Also, a R160 has lost its brakes and rammed into a R68 at Brighton Beach, throwing trains parts everywhere. This will take a month to fix as the collision has broken the rails, damaged the station structure and so forth.

 

Reroute!

207 St to 125 St, Jamaica-179 St to Brooklyn/Queens

suspended

suspended

205 St to 145 St

Astoria/57 St to Kings Hwy

242 St to 137 St

via Lex

148 St to 96 St, 14 St to New Lots Av via 7 Av local

[MTA Dude]

is split as follows:

Trains to Lefferts Boulevard run local on CPW and 6th Avenue (switching to the local 6th Avenue tracks after 42nd) and then via Rutgers to Jay Street-Borough Hall before resuming regular route.

 

Trains to Far Rockaway start at Canal Street (on the express tracks) and run regular route otherwise.

 

Single-track shuttle runs between Canal and Spring Street on the uptown local track.

 

Shuttle bus operates between on a loop Canal Street and Broadway-Lafayette on the 6th Avenue Line, stopping at Spring Street and Houston Street (block closest to West 4th) on 6th Avenue and Houston Street/Broadway (for 6th Avenue trains) and also Prince Street and Broadway for Broadway Line trains.

 

runs from Canal Street (express tracks) to Euclid Avenue ONLY!!

 

Nearby lines can handle the area alone without service or shuttle buses. Single tracking there will just carry air and is useless.

 

 

is truncated to 34th Street-Penn Station and run on the express tracks.  Select trains continue to 14th Street where such trains terminate (23rd Street is skipped on such trains). 

 

So you're saying that trains can actually go and turn around at 6 TPH? 6 TPH is actually a lot for share of tracks.

 

If necessary, select trains operate via the between Roosevelt Avenue and Bergen Street.

If necessary, and are extended via Montague and the Brighton Line to Brighton Beach to replace the in Brooklyn.

 

Not necessary at all.

[Javier]

A signal malfunction has caused countless collisions all over the NYC Subway System. They go as follow:

 

A collsion between a R160 and a R46 at 59 Street - Columbus Circle: Station can not be used.

 

A collsion between a R160 and another R160 at the Manhattan Bridge Downtown Tracks.

 

A collsion between a R142 and a R62 at City Hall Loop.

 

A derailment at East 105 Street that has taken out all the tracks.

 

A Collsionn between a R188 and a R62 at QueensBoro Plaza, station can not be used.

 

A collision between a R142 and a R62 at Franklin Ave taking out the tracks to New Lots Ave and the tracks to Flatbush Ave.

 

A train that has lost in brakes rips through 57 Street - 7th Ave and derails into a R160 train at Lex - 63 Street, the entire 63 Street Tunnel is unstable and so is Lex - 63 Street.

 

All of these accidents will take at least 2 weeks to fix.

Reroute!

[MTA Dude]

 

A signal malfunction has caused countless collisions all over the NYC Subway System. They go as follow:

 

A collsion between a R160 and a R46 at 59 Street - Columbus Circle: Station can not be used.

 

A collsion between a R160 and another R160 at the Manhattan Bridge Downtown Tracks.

 

A collsion between a R142 and a R62 at City Hall Loop.

 

A derailment at East 105 Street that has taken out all the tracks.

 

A Collsionn between a R188 and a R62 at QueensBoro Plaza, station can not be used.

 

A collision between a R142 and a R62 at Franklin Ave taking out the tracks to New Lots Ave and the tracks to Flatbush Ave.

 

A train that has lost in brakes rips through 57 Street - 7th Ave and derails into a R160   train at Lex - 63 Street, the entire 63 Street Tunnel is unstable and so is Lex - 63 Street.

 

All of these accidents will take at least 2 weeks to fix.

Reroute!

 

 

How would there be that many derailments? If a signal fail would happen, crews would be notified and trains traveling at about 10 mph and with caution. I'm only doing the last one. And for fun, I'll add SAS.

 

via 53rd St.

extended to Forest Hills.

rerouted to Chambers St.

to 57th St-7th Av.

 

Next:

A building in Bayside and Fort Totten burnt to crisp and the fire is spreading. The fire is then put out safely. However, the area there is very unstable. Reroute subway service!

 

P.S. To be taken as a joke! Haha!

Edited February 5, 2015 by MTA Dude

[Fresh Pond]

I'm not even gonna answer that one since obviously logic done 12-9'd itself

 

Next:

A building in Bayside and Fort Totten burnt to crisp and the fire is spreading. The fire is then put out safely. However, the area there is very unstable. Reroute subway service!

 

P.S. To be taken as a joke! Haha!

extended to/from Norwood

suspended

extended to/from 207 St

operates via Lex

extended down Culver via Coney Island and up Brighton to Atlantic

to New Lots Av

[Quill Depot]

If necessary, and are extended via Montague and the Brighton Line to Brighton Beach to replace the in Brooklyn.

is rerouted to Broad Street on the Nassau Line after Essex Street and then via its old route via Montauge, 4th Avenue and the West End to Coney Island to replace the in Brooklyn.  From 6th Avenue, transfer from the or at Essex-Delancey in Manhattan OR Jay Street in Brooklyn for the that replaces the

. 

 

Why make it complicated? You could just split the between West End and Sea Beach. That would make a lot more sense to riders. You have to remember riders do not know as much as you. If they see a on the Brighton or an on the West End they'll be very confused.

[Wallyhorse]

Why make it complicated? You could just split the between West End and Sea Beach. That would make a lot more sense to riders. You have to remember riders do not know as much as you. If they see a on the Brighton or an on the West End they'll be very confused.

Except the USED to run via West end to Bay Parkway (albeit last time five years ago) so it's not like people will forget that easily.  Plus, there are two transfer spots involved (Essex-Delancey AND Jay-Metrotech) where in this scenario riders can switch from the or to get to the re-routed and if needed / (PLUS Fulton from the Rockaway and the AND there AND Court Street AND Atlantic-Barclays from the / / / in this scenario), which is a consideration.   Some might get confused, but the transfer points are why I do that.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Wallyhorse

[Quill Depot]

Except the USED to run via West end to Bay Parkway (albeit last time five years ago) so it's not like people will forget that easily.  Plus, there are two transfer spots involved (Essex-Delancey AND Jay-Metrotech) where in this scenario riders can switch from the or to get to the re-routed and if needed / (PLUS Fulton from the Rockaway and the AND there AND Court Street AND Atlantic-Barclays from the / / / in this scenario), which is a consideration.   Some might get confused, but the transfer points are why I do that.

 

I bet if 95% of subway riders just read your post they'd be confused. It's hard for the general consensus to just look at a map and paint lines with their mind.

[Wallyhorse]

I bet if 95% of subway riders just read your post they'd be confused. It's hard for the general consensus to just look at a map and paint lines with their mind.

Which shows you all you need to know about the short attention span society we have today. 

 

This is where paying attention and staying on top of things rewards the rider who does that.

 

Anyway, getting back to scenarios:

 

A water main break at Herald Square has played major havoc on both the Broadway and 6th Avenue Lines.  It will take several days to fully repair and both subway stations are unusable during this time. 

 

Simultaneously, the switches north of Essex Street on the Nassau Line off the Willy B are stuck with all such trains having to go to the 6th Avenue line northbound while the switches south of Essex Street coming off the Willy B to Manhattan won't allow such trains to go to the center track,

 

In addition, in Queens, all trains coming south on Queens Boulevard on the express track MUST go via 63rd Street (trains on the local track can go via 53rd or 60th or via the Crosstown line).

[CenSin]

Which shows you all you need to know about the short attention span society we have today. 

 

This is where paying attention and staying on top of things rewards the rider who does that.

I agree that a lot of folks are lacking in subway smarts, but you've got your own problems too.

 

 

A water main break at Herald Square has played major havoc on both the Broadway and 6th Avenue Lines.  It will take several days to fully repair and both subway stations are unusable during this time.

Any train going southbound from Queens will end at 57 Street–7 Avenue or Times Square–42 Street on Broadway and 47‒50 Streets–Rockefeller Center on 6 Avenue. Any train going northbound from Brooklyn will end at Whitehall Street–South Ferry on Broadway and West 4 Street–Washington Square on 6 Avenue. A single track shuttle runs between Whitehall Street–South Ferry and Union Square since bus service is just too slow along the crowded streets of Manhattan to be any useful. Details follow:

 

 

Simultaneously, the switches north of Essex Street on the Nassau Line off the Willy B are stuck with all such trains having to go to the 6th Avenue line northbound while the switches south of Essex Street coming off the Willy B to Manhattan won't allow such trains to go to the center track,

If this isn't the definition of "contrived" then I don't know what is.

 

All trains terminate at Myrtle Avenue and all trains terminate at Marcy Avenue until the track workers can get down there to fix the switches. Service in Manhattan is suspended since alternate route are available very nearby. In Brooklyn a free transfer is available between the and to/from the .

 

 

In addition, in Queens, all trains coming south on Queens Boulevard on the express track MUST go via 63rd Street (trains on the local track can go via 53rd or 60th or via the Crosstown line).

trains are suspended.

trains run local in place of the along Central Park West, 8 Avenue, and Culver to Coney Island when traffic conditions warrant it.

trains run local along Queens Boulevard.

runs local between Jackson Heights–Roosevelt Avenue and Queens Plaza via Crosstown when traffic conditions permit.

trains are extended via Queens Boulevard local to Forest Hills–71 Avenue.

 

North of the water main break:

trains run local in place of the along Central Park West and 8 Avenue terminating at 2 Avenue.

trains run express along Queens Boulevard and to 47‒50 Streets–Rockefeller Center via 63 Street.

trains run to 57 Street–7 Avenue.

trains run local along Queens Boulevard to Times Square–42 Street.

 

South of the water main break:

trains terminate at Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center.

trains terminate at West 4 Street–Washington Square.

: (See above.)

trains terminate at Whitehall Street–South Ferry.

trains terminate at Prospect Park.

trains operate as a shuttle between Bay Ridge–95 Street and 59 Street.