Blitz Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1601 Posted May 21, 2012 Blitz random rant A : What's the point of continued use of OTR coaches for express bus service if they are not going to utilize the cargo areas below? It's a whole lot of added weight needing extra power for nothing. Which brings me to Rant B: Why use a DDS60 or CAT C13 for these buses? Don't get me wrong, I love the S60 and C13 but I think its a little overkill for what they are being used for. It's not like the acceleration demands are that much greater than any other bus that they need 12 and 13 liter engines. If the bigger heavier D60HF can get around with a suped up DDS50 (they have about 100hp more than the standard RTS/O5 S50) than i dont see a need for such a huge engine in an OTR coach. Unless It was a fuel economy issue. If that were the case, they should have gone for the cummins M11 (even though it probably wasn't an option for these buses im sure the MTA could have convinced them to make an exception) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngblaze Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1602 Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Blitz random rant A : What's the point of continued use of OTR coaches for express bus service if they are not going to utilize the cargo areas below? It's a whole lot of added weight needing extra power for nothing. Which brings me to Rant B: Why use a DDS60 or CAT C13 for these buses? Don't get me wrong, I love the S60 and C13 but I think its a little overkill for what they are being used for. It's not like the acceleration demands are that much greater than any other bus that they need 12 and 13 liter engines. If the bigger heavier D60HF can get around with a suped up DDS50 (they have about 100hp more than the standard RTS/O5 S50) than i dont see a need for such a huge engine in an OTR coach. Unless It was a fuel economy issue. If that were the case, they should have gone for the cummins M11 (even though it probably wasn't an option for these buses im sure the MTA could have convinced them to make an exception) speaking of the DDS60...I'm so envious of those Bee-Line Neoplan Artic's they blow me out the water ALLLLL the time lol I wonder why the TA opted for the 50 series for a 66,000lbs bus --- Sidenote: 5776 has been in the painting booth at KB for some time now ...anyone know if that one was involved in an accident or something? Edited May 21, 2012 by youngblaze 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1603 Posted May 21, 2012 They probably thought the extra 100hp would compensate for the lack of displacement. The M11 would have been a perfect engine for the D60 and the MCIs. It's right in the middle of the S50(8.5L) and S60(12.7L) at 10.6L. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1604 Posted May 21, 2012 When all the construction at St. George Ferry Terminal is complete, the buses should be assigned to their ramps like this: Ramp A: S61/S91, S62/S92, S66 (Victory Blvd services) Ramp B: S74/S84, S76/S86, S78 (South Shore services) Ramp C: S40/S90, S46/S96, S48/S98 (North Shore services) Ramp D: S44/S91, S51/S81, S52/S42 (North-South services) The buses should be assigned to their ramps by route number to ease confusion and give more direct options. For example, if you live along South Avenue near Mariners Harbor, Ramp C would be the best because you have all 3 buses that go in that area and in case one certain bus does not show up, you have the other two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngblaze Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1605 Posted May 21, 2012 They probably thought the extra 100hp would compensate for the lack of displacement. The M11 would have been a perfect engine for the D60 and the MCIs. It's right in the middle of the S50(8.5L) and S60(12.7L) at 10.6L. Smh....as we all know how the saying goes...."There's no replacement for displacement" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1606 Posted May 21, 2012 When all the construction at St. George Ferry Terminal is complete, the buses should be assigned to their ramps like this: Ramp A: S61/S91, S62/S92, S66 (Victory Blvd services) Ramp B: S74/S84, S76/S86, S78 (South Shore services) Ramp C: S40/S90, S46/S96, S48/S98 (North Shore services) Ramp D: S44/S91, S51/S81, S52/S42 (North-South services) The buses should be assigned to their ramps by route number to ease confusion and give more direct options. For example, if you live along South Avenue near Mariners Harbor, Ramp C would be the best because you have all 3 buses that go in that area and in case one certain bus does not show up, you have the other two. Ideally, you'd put the S44/S94 with the other North Shore buses, since more ferry riders use it to go to points along the North Shore vs. points along Richmond Avenue. And aside from that, it doesn't go anywhere near the S51/81 and S52/42. But obviously there's no room for 8 different bus lines (and some have 2 buses leaving at once) at the height of rush hour on one ramp. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1607 Posted May 21, 2012 In any case, the S96 actually came early today. They must've tossed in an extra bus (I wonder if it came from Grandview & Forest or the West Shore Plaza), because with the huge gap in service plus the rain, there's no way the bus is coming early on its own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1608 Posted May 21, 2012 In any case, the S96 actually came early today. They must've tossed in an extra bus (I wonder if it came from Grandview & Forest or the West Shore Plaza), because with the huge gap in service plus the rain, there's no way the bus is coming early on its own. As far as I know, all morning S96 trips start at West Shore Plaza with some going through the Teleport. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1609 Posted May 21, 2012 Ideally, you'd put the S44/S94 with the other North Shore buses, since more ferry riders use it to go to points along the North Shore vs. points along Richmond Avenue. And aside from that, it doesn't go anywhere near the S51/81 and S52/42. But obviously there's no room for 8 different bus lines (and some have 2 buses leaving at once) at the height of rush hour on one ramp. I know, the S44 and the S51 don't have anything in common, but Ramp D would be the only weird ramp otherwise, all the others would work out fine, plus Ramp D would have at least one 24 hour bus line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1610 Posted May 21, 2012 As far as I know, all morning S96 trips start at West Shore Plaza with some going through the Teleport. That's my point. I thought it was an extra bus because it came earlier than scheduled (and I've seen it happen before: A bus would come 2-3 minutes before the scheduled S96, and then an S96 would come at the scheduled time) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3 Via Av U Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1611 Posted May 21, 2012 Lots of B3's to Begen Beach-71 displaying Bensonhurst-Harway Avenue lately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1612 Posted May 21, 2012 Lots of B3's to Begen Beach-71 displaying Bensonhurst-Harway Avenue lately. That's common. Sometimes B/O's forget to change the destination sign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3 Via Av U Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1613 Posted May 21, 2012 That's common. Sometimes B/O's forget to change the destination sign. Lady: Is this bus going to Harway or Bergen? Cuz the bus stop says Bergen and your sign says Harway. B/O: Whoops.(Dives into huge codebook and digs out code for B3 to Bergen via Av U.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1614 Posted May 21, 2012 Blitz random rant A : What's the point of continued use of OTR coaches for express bus service if they are not going to utilize the cargo areas below? It's a whole lot of added weight needing extra power for nothing. Which brings me to Rant B: Why use a DDS60 or CAT C13 for these buses? Don't get me wrong, I love the S60 and C13 but I think its a little overkill for what they are being used for. It's not like the acceleration demands are that much greater than any other bus that they need 12 and 13 liter engines. If the bigger heavier D60HF can get around with a suped up DDS50 (they have about 100hp more than the standard RTS/O5 S50) than i dont see a need for such a huge engine in an OTR coach. Unless It was a fuel economy issue. If that were the case, they should have gone for the cummins M11 (even though it probably wasn't an option for these buses im sure the MTA could have convinced them to make an exception) Don't tempt me here...I've been banging on about what a waste OTR coaches are since the beginning of time. They're too much extra maintenance money, they're not at all compatible for local service, and they reduce the number of buses a depot can hold -- not to mention they cost a ton. Those buses are built for long distance travels, and that's not what the MTA uses them for. That aside, engine wise, do the gearings on the OTR buses require much higher levels of torque? That's all I can think of, I think everything about those buses is overkill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1615 Posted May 21, 2012 Don't tempt me here...I've been banging on about what a waste OTR coaches are since the beginning of time. They're too much extra maintenance money, they're not at all compatible for local service, and they reduce the number of buses a depot can hold -- not to mention they cost a ton. Those buses are built for long distance travels, and that's not what the MTA uses them for. That aside, engine wise, do the gearings on the OTR buses require much higher levels of torque? That's all I can think of, I think everything about those buses is overkill. That's funny because it seems like the paying public thinks they are just fine. Meanwhile everyone hates the small local buses... Go figure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1616 Posted May 21, 2012 That's funny because it seems like the paying public thinks they are just fine. Meanwhile everyone hates the small local buses... Go figure. You can't play both sides though: one thread you complain about cuts to local service and in another you praise wasteful express buses. You don't think those are connected? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1617 Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) You can't play both sides though: one thread you complain about cuts to local service and in another you praise wasteful express buses. You don't think those are connected? I give praise when praise is needed... Those Prevosts were a waste of money. As for your complaining about wasteful express buses, the has cut many express buses. What you would like to see is massive cuts of express bus service so that only communities with subways and rail service can be serviced and meanwhile you'd say screw other areas like Riverdale, Bay Ridge and so on who need their express buses and use them. There I just said it... Now where are these wasteful express buses you keep talking about?? All of this talk about express buses and they've been shown to be efficient time and time again in terms of gas usage, mileage and so on. Edited May 21, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1618 Posted May 21, 2012 That's funny because it seems like the paying public thinks they are just fine. Meanwhile everyone hates the small local buses... Go figure. LOL. The local bus system sees over 2 million riders a day. What does the express bus system see? Like 40,000? That's what, like 2% of the total bus ridership? Most of the paying public could give a rat's @ss about the OTR coaches. And speak for yourself. I sure as hell don't hate the "small" (I don't know where you got that from) local buses. Unless we're talking about the LFS or LFSA buses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1619 Posted May 21, 2012 LOL. The local bus system sees over 2 million riders a day. What does the express bus system see? Like 40,000? That's what, like 2% of the total bus ridership? Most of the paying public could give a rat's @ss about the OTR coaches. And speak for yourself. I sure as hell don't hate the "small" (I don't know where you got that from) local buses. Unless we're talking about the LFS or LFSA buses. The paying public (outside of you and others), the majority of them don't like the new local buses and I agree... Far too small. As for the express bus, that's exactly why folks such as myself make sure to look out for the interests of us express bus riders. We're a minority but we won't stand idle and walked over. We need our service just like the local bus folks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1620 Posted May 21, 2012 I give praise when praise is needed... Those Prevosts were a waste of money. As for your complaining about wasteful express buses, the has cut many express buses. What you would like to see is massive cuts of express bus service so that only communities with subways and rail service can be serviced and meanwhile you'd say screw other areas like Riverdale, Bay Ridge and so on who need their express buses and use them. There I just said it... Now where are these wasteful express buses you keep talking about?? All of this talk about express buses and they've been shown to be efficient time and time again in terms of gas usage, mileage and so on. I'm not saying screw Bay Ridge or Riverdale, I'm saying screw the express bus model. Use normal buses or even normal buses with suburban seating, and cut a whole lot of lines. I don't deny that that kind of service is necessary -- I've got friends of mine in Co-op City, Bensonhurst, even (shock) Riverdale who commute and that service DOES need to exist. But not in the current state. [And by wasteful, I don't mean mileage, I mean the general cost of service. There are STILL express lines in service that cost more per ride than eliminated local buses.] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1621 Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) I'm not saying screw Bay Ridge or Riverdale, I'm saying screw the express bus model. Use normal buses or even normal buses with suburban seating, and cut a whole lot of lines. I don't deny that that kind of service is necessary -- I've got friends of mine in Co-op City, Bensonhurst, even (shock) Riverdale who commute and that service DOES need to exist. But not in the current state. [And by wasteful, I don't mean mileage, I mean the general cost of service. There are STILL express lines in service that cost more per ride than eliminated local buses.] Well which is it? You claim that the loses money on some routes but yet I guess these communities should keep paying their taxes, but not receive any service right?? Or should they swim to work or what?? Oh and let me get this right... Let's charge $5.50 for long commutes with regular buses... That's like the rip off I get with MetroNorth... Pay $9.75 and can't even get a bloody seat in the morning. Edited May 21, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1622 Posted May 21, 2012 Well which is it? You claim that the loses money on some routes but yet I guess these communities should keep paying their taxes, but not receive any service right?? Or should they swim to work or what?? Oh and let me get this right... Let's charge $5.50 for long commutes with regular buses... As far as I'm concerned, the $5.50 is due to the fact that it's a (relatively) high-speed, long distance service (and one that's more comfortable than the subway, when it's an option). The coaches are something of a bonus, and I suppose suburban seats would always be a possibility. Regarding taxes, what are you referring to? The whole city needs to be paying, yes, cause even if you don't have direct service, you'll still use it in other areas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1623 Posted May 21, 2012 As far as I'm concerned, the $5.50 is due to the fact that it's a (relatively) high-speed, long distance service (and one that's more comfortable than the subway, when it's an option). The coaches are something of a bonus, and I suppose suburban seats would always be a possibility. Regarding taxes, what are you referring to? The whole city needs to be paying, yes, cause even if you don't have direct service, you'll still use it in other areas. Well that's true, but at same time certainly not fair. Two communities paying equal amount of taxes but getting far from equal types of transportation??? Folks don't just pay taxes just because. They're supposed to get something out of those taxes you know and it isn't just for "select" communities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1624 Posted May 21, 2012 Well that's true, but at same time certainly not fair. Two communities paying equal amount of taxes but getting far from equal types of transportation??? Folks don't just pay taxes just because. They're supposed to get something out of those taxes you know and it isn't just for "select" communities. You still pay taxes to pay for education even if you're not in school. What's your point? That's just how taxes work, you pay for public services for the general public good, even if it doesn't immediately apply to you. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted May 21, 2012 Share #1625 Posted May 21, 2012 The paying public (outside of you and others), the majority of them don't like the new local buses and I agree... Far too small. As for the express bus, that's exactly why folks such as myself make sure to look out for the interests of us express bus riders. We're a minority but we won't stand idle and walked over. We need our service just like the local bus folks. I hate the new ones as well. But I don't have a problem with the older ones. I'm not saying screw Bay Ridge or Riverdale, I'm saying screw the express bus model. Use normal buses or even normal buses with suburban seating, and cut a whole lot of lines. I don't deny that that kind of service is necessary -- I've got friends of mine in Co-op City, Bensonhurst, even (shock) Riverdale who commute and that service DOES need to exist. But not in the current state. [And by wasteful, I don't mean mileage, I mean the general cost of service. There are STILL express lines in service that cost more per ride than eliminated local buses.] Well, express bus riders do pay more, so you should be comparing the farebox recovery ratios, not the actual cost per passenger (for instance, the X1 on the weekends costs something like $4.80 per passenger, which is higher than most local buses, but when you consider that the average express bus rider pays $4 - $5, with the transfers and everything, it's a pretty good farebox recovery ratio) In any case, he's right that there isn't much to cut, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to cut. I mean, during rush hour, most routes that are running should stay, but off-peak, there is definitely fat available to cut. Well which is it? You claim that the loses money on some routes but yet I guess these communities should keep paying their taxes, but not receive any service right?? Or should they swim to work or what?? Oh and let me get this right... Let's charge $5.50 for long commutes with regular buses... Stop this BS about "not receiving any service". There is still the local bus and subway, and aside from that their taxes go towards a lot more than public transportation. And yes, you did say that you'd be alright with using regular buses provided they were used for express buses only and came with soft seats and all that glitz and glam on the regular express buses. Well that's true, but at same time certainly not fair. Two communities paying equal amount of taxes but getting far from equal types of transportation??? Folks don't just pay taxes just because. They're supposed to get something out of those taxes you know and it isn't just for "select" communities. I've said this before and I'll say it again: The amount of service an area receives should be based on demand and need (and no, if there's one person who needs it, that doesn't mean it's needed). Those people on the Upper East Side pay plenty of taxes, and their buses are cost-efficient, so they're subsidizing the commutes of people in the far reaches of the outer boroughs where the buses carry a handful of people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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