BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Lawrence St]

5 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That's true, but even so I understand the congestion in the city but it's really vision zero that changed the driving culture at the MTA. They essentially promote that you can drive as slow as possible in the name of safety and screw up schedules and still be paid (and even paid extra if you're late at the end of the day), so it's like why haul safely if it's not appreciated when you can drive slow, maybe blow a trip, get put in place, and still get paid. A supervisor told me the MTA is not designed to be a reliable and perfect system because then there wouldn't be as many jobs and the union is very strong and they're about having as many jobs as possible available. If everything is fixed and perfect then about 20% of its employees would be not needed.
 

As for the XE60s, they last throughout the day so they only need to charge them in the depot. When the electrics become more common they'll install on the route chargers in the layover spots to keep the buses charged throughout the day. I'm curious to how they plan on calculating layover charging (between a driver coming back late, the various layover/swing times). Makes me wonder if certain runs will use electric buses and they'll have a paddle note for the drivers to charge during this time period (if the layovers are 15 or more minutes). 

If I'm not mistaken, the XE60's haven't been on the M60-SBS after a few of them lost charge in the middle of their runs. 

And I'm not sure how they're doing the M14 runs right now with the XE60's, maybe an operator can further explain, but if an XE60 is running low on a charge do they send out another bus to replace it on the same run?

[Around the Horn]

15 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

New Flyer makes some crazy good stuff if you let them...

SEPTA's D40LFs and DE40LFs being a case in point... I have never been on an MTA bus that accelerates as fast in Manhattan as those do in Center City Philly (and of course in the rest of the area)

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

5 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

SEPTA's D40LFs and DE40LFs being a case in point... I have never been on an MTA bus that accelerates as fast in Manhattan as those do in Center City Philly (and of course in the rest of the area)

Mann those 5600 D40LFs will be some of my all time favorite buses. I still don't understand how they managed to get those buses to sound like that, and why they even sounded like that. It's like putting a H pipe exhaust on a muscle car. 

[MeeP15-9112]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:31 AM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Spot on! And I forgot about mid route splits as well so I'm looking for those as well. So for my original question I have: 

B17, B38, B41

S46/96, S51, SIM30

M11

Bx5

Q1, Q5, Q10, Q11, Q16, Q30, Q46, Q85

These are all routes with individual search functions (when I search Q1 I see everything that only the Q1 does) on Bustime that have multiple via routings or alternating/part time terminals. 

There might be more but I can't think of any for now. These are routes that don't have a standard route procedure for every bus (not including short turns, as those still use the same stops). 

BX5 has the weekend extension to Bay Plaza Mall.

Q22 and Q35 have the summertime routing via the Jacob Riis Park Bath House.

Q22 also has a branch to B116 St ferry (in the ferry direction only; no service to either Far Rock or Roxbury from the ferry).

Q37 is a funny quirk however. On timetables, there are two branches: the Q37 and the Q37B. Q37B skips the casino while Q37 stops there. Bus signage also reflects this. On BUSTIME however, each branch simply appear as "Q37" with the only difference being "via Aqueduct" added for one of the routes.

[Cait Sith]

8 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

They sure do! I like almost the entire LACMTA fleet, even their NABI 60-BRT CNGs. And the way LACMTA set up their XE60s on the Orange Line is what made me like the XE60s, because between the MTA and those M14 drivers, I wasn't feeling them. 

Check out this XE60 absolutely HAULING on the Orange Line! Nahh check out this XE60 actually HAULING. Between quick acceleration and top speed these buses are ELITE. 

 

Also here's a throwback video of when I first was getting into LACMTA and came across this video. This is when I was like yeah they ABSOLUTELY HAUL out there in LA. And those NABI CNGs have some crazy sound effects. 

 

 

Those 60-BRT CNGs are tired, like, out of breath tired 🤣

Their XEs might be fast, but lets see how long the quality will last. And with how hard they run their buses out in LA, it wont be long. Their XN40s and some of their XN60s are already showing quality control problems.

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

If I'm not mistaken, the XE60's haven't been on the M60-SBS after a few of them lost charge in the middle of their runs. 

And I'm not sure how they're doing the M14 runs right now with the XE60's, maybe an operator can further explain, but if an XE60 is running low on a charge do they send out another bus to replace it on the same run?

That's actually not true at all. 4950 has been the primary bus on the M60. That bus is currently at the vendor. I also find that hard to believe considering that they tend to be out almost all day and night on the M79 and M86, and the bridge isn't a battery killer especially since they have regenerative braking.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Cait Sith

[MHV9218]

19 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

I actually like our XN60s to be honest.....our XD60s on the other hand, only 5364-5438 lol.

WMATA's XD60s are absolute rockets and sound WAY better than ours.

Ours aren't bad, but the LA stuff, I've never been on buses overtaking cars at 40 lmao. The pickup from a standstill is insane and they're still way quieter than those old NABIs with the ridiculous AC fan LA always has. LACMTA hasn't been the same since the end of the DD50s (same with the city, I guess), but it's still something else getting flung around on those buses.

12 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

They sure do! I like almost the entire LACMTA fleet, even their NABI 60-BRT CNGs. And the way LACMTA set up their XE60s on the Orange Line is what made me like the XE60s, because between the MTA and those M14 drivers, I wasn't feeling them. 

Check out this XE60 absolutely HAULING on the Orange Line! Nahh check out this XE60 actually HAULING. Between quick acceleration and top speed these buses are ELITE. 

Also here's a throwback video of when I first was getting into LACMTA and came across this video. This is when I was like yeah they ABSOLUTELY HAUL out there in LA. And those NABI CNGs have some crazy sound effects. 

Yeah, those LACMTA buses are the truth. You've got the combination of fast roads, buses geared for speed, and a long distance between stops, and you just fly. It's a shame the long headways make it such a pain to get around via bus because once you're in motion, it's better than any other major US city. When I was there back in '17 they still had the un-repowered C40s and NABIs and it was a treat hearing those DD50s working. I bet the 6v92 era was even crazier, but I pretty much missed that clean.

4 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

SEPTA's D40LFs and DE40LFs being a case in point... I have never been on an MTA bus that accelerates as fast in Manhattan as those do in Center City Philly (and of course in the rest of the area)

Yeah, we must just be gearing them for economy and dealing with it. Probably makes sense from a bean-counting perspective, though of course if you set a vehicle up to accelerate slowly and consequently have to floor it to go anyway, you actually lose all your fuel savings. Lots more lugging on MTA buses, but on the other hand nice and efficient when they're sitting in traffic/crawling around (which our buses sure do). It's a balance. I wonder when stop-start will come to buses. You'd think the hybrids at least could do it pretty easily, switching motors, but I guess the HVAC is a real bitch to power up.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

9 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Probably makes sense from a bean-counting perspective, though of course if you set a vehicle up to accelerate slowly and consequently have to floor it to go anyway, you actually lose all your fuel savings.

And this is my thing with the MTA. The the new XD60 clearly have acceleration and transmission issues and they still have the buses modified. Why not just remove the LBSS and let the buses do what they need to do. You have depots operating in manually mode and holding the bus in gears to get more power... like they're doing too much for such little savings. 

[Future ENY OP]

6 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

SEPTA's D40LFs and DE40LFs being a case in point... I have never been on an MTA bus that accelerates as fast in Manhattan as those do in Center City Philly (and of course in the rest of the area)

Seriously, I miss the days when old old MCI's from the private bus lines especially Command, Liberty and NY Bus Service. Those MCI's haul ass into Manhattan.  Living along the BM2 back in the day I knew which MCI buses would fly down the prospect into the battery tunnel. Too bad once they became MTA bus most of those buses were governed.

[SoSpectacular]

On 7/19/2021 at 1:25 AM, MHV9218 said:

If only our XN60s were anything like LACMTA's XN60s. LA always has the most fun buses in the country since they gear them for speed, but goddamn, their XN60s absolutely fly. New Flyer makes some crazy good stuff if you let them...

Ours have a bit of pep to them, don't let them fool you! 

[SoSpectacular]

4 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Yeah, we must just be gearing them for economy and dealing with it. Probably makes sense from a bean-counting perspective, though of course if you set a vehicle up to accelerate slowly and consequently have to floor it to go anyway, you actually lose all your fuel savings. Lots more lugging on MTA buses, but on the other hand nice and efficient when they're sitting in traffic/crawling around (which our buses sure do). It's a balance. I wonder when stop-start will come to buses. You'd think the hybrids at least could do it pretty easily, switching motors, but I guess the HVAC is a real bitch to power up.

I remember last fall while waiting at Prospect Park to make a relief another operator talking about how fast off the line the C40LFs used to be when they were brand new. Their acceleration was toned down to account for the increase of customer injuries. Since the throttle is basically electronic on today's buses all Transit has to do is adjust some numbers concerning the throttle sensitivity and boom you get less engine power.

As far as transmissions go, I'm not a big fan of the newer ZF EcoLife transmissions because of their tendency to shift at lower speeds in an effort to keep RPMs low and fuel economy high. It just feels like a drag when coming off the line in either an XN40 or XN60 for this reason. But, then again, there's also those engine parameters that get screwed with. The ZFs have a pretty high torque requirement according to the operation manual... The Allison transmissions are basically taking a page out of their playbook and adding computerized shift schedules to make them competitive with the things ZF is doing but they still have their default shift schedule which I feel works best for the street conditions. Plus, it's also smoother. With the LBSS/Dynamic Shift Scheduling feature it tries to find the best gear range for the vehicle's current speed but I find that it isn't very good when going up inclines. Slogging at 20 MPH uphill in 4th gear is pretty terrible. Trying to start on a hill sucks at times too. Sometimes the transmission will buck pretty hard if the bus goes too high in the gears and you have to let off the throttle and come on. Without it enabled the bus would stay in 3rd gear and it would climb a hill no problem. Anyway, they need to figure that stuff out if they want real improved performance.

[Cait Sith]

7 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

And this is my thing with the MTA. The the new XD60 clearly have acceleration and transmission issues and they still have the buses modified. Why not just remove the LBSS and let the buses do what they need to do. You have depots operating in manually mode and holding the bus in gears to get more power... like they're doing too much for such little savings. 

Just transmission configuration issues. 6126-6286, the blame falls on the HVAC being so overpowered. During the winter months, those things fly. But when that AC is on, forget it.

[NBTA]

I’ve been saying for a while that the cap should be brought back to 55 at least. I’ve had operators in the city hit 40 easily in the matter of a couple city blocks. Vision Zero is cool and all, but slowing everything down created even more accidents. 

I even saw an NJT XD60 the other day fly down a city block at around 45, it was on the 159, and he didn’t look like he was slowing down any time soon. 

[paulrivera]

This bus driver shortage is starting to get on my nerves… 15 minute headways for the SBS Bx12 and 20 minute headways for the local Bx12 at 9pm… and then they end up running together so the wait time actually is 15-20 minutes even if you have no preference for which bus you want.

i waited 15 minutes at Fordham Plaza last night because both buses had just left when the Metro-North train I was on pulled in.

Edited July 20, 2021 by paulrivera
grammar

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, paulrivera said:

This bus driver shortage is starting to get on my nerves… 15 minute headways for the SBS Bx12 and 20 minute headways for the local Bx12 at 9pm… and then they end up running together so the wait time actually is 15-20 minutes even if you have no preference for which bus you want.

i waited 15 minutes at Fordham Plaza last night because both buses had just left when the Metro-North train I was on pulled in.

As far as that goes, I had been hearing that they are indeed training, but of course it takes a few months to bring on new drivers.  I had heard September unofficially, but it will not be much better for the duration of the summer, so I suggest you plan accordingly.  I have been keeping an eye on the express side in terms of gaps, but the local buses we don't cover.  I had someone in my group complaining about the local buses today and the waits.  They are also short on dispatchers and other personnel to oversee everything, so it is pretty rough right now.  The  released info during yesterday's board meeting regarding the bus and train crew shortages. Sarah Feinberg noted the following:

Quote

On the bus side, we will be in better shape in the fall. On the subway side, it’s going to take longer.

Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-mta-subway-jobs-service-delays-20210719-uxgvivsamzgodprl2e4qg7reyi-story.html?outputType=amp&fbclid=IwAR3qvWh55F4uPxSzBpUFPAZd6SXltw169duLakDOpwfaiqSEtFZ57FE0UeI

Edited July 20, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[trainfan22]

I'm on the Q35 and a drunk dude is laid out across the rear seats sleep, first time I ever seen something like this on the bus Haha 

[paulrivera]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I had heard September unofficially, but it will not be much better for the duration of the summer, so I suggest you plan accordingly.

At least during most of the day it isnt so bad, but it’s those shoulder hours where the no-shows really sting (right before the morning rush/right after the evening rush) Especially early evening when bus headways are already winding down and the subways are preparing for the overnight construction. Missing runs on top of all that mess = yikes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

At least during most of the day it isnt so bad, but it’s those shoulder hours where the no-shows really sting (right before the morning rush/right after the evening rush) Especially early evening when bus headways are already winding down and the subways are preparing for the overnight construction. Missing runs on top of all that mess = yikes.

I knew it would be bad based on what I heard when the Summer pick came up.  They are providing OT and trying to cover where possible, but there's still too few drivers available. Not only that but dispatch seems overwhelmed quite frankly to stay on top of all of the missing trips to try to manage the gaps.  You reminded me that I need to go over my e-mails, as I have a lot to discuss regarding service issues.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I'm on the Q35 and a drunk dude is laid out across the rear seats sleep, first time I ever seen something like this on the bus Haha 

One of the few things I don't miss when the buses were free.

[MTAbus677]

I have rode units 5928 on the M102, and 5924, on the M15. I did not hear their raspy and funny A/C sounding compressors.

[SoSpectacular]

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

One of the few things I don't miss when the buses were free.

I definitely don't miss when the buses were free. I could hardly keep the bus on time with the volumes of people trying to squeeze on my vehicle. I've had to flag stops because the bus was packed to the gills. Talk about taking complete advantage of the "free" service! It was so bad to the point that people were complaining for fare collection to be reinstated because they couldn't get seats on the bus!

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

11 minutes ago, SoSpectacular said:

I definitely don't miss when the buses were free. I could hardly keep the bus on time with the volumes of people trying to squeeze on my vehicle. I've had to flag stops because the bus was packed to the gills. Talk about taking complete advantage of the "free" service! It was so bad to the point that people were complaining for fare collection to be reinstated because they couldn't get seats on the bus!

It was quite bad where I live near the Bronx, especially during the last few weeks before fare collection was reinstated. However, in Manhattan it wasn’t as bad seeing how Midtown was a ghost town for a bit last year so seats were plentiful. I’m pretty sure others will dispute this seeing how all experiences are not equal in any way.

[QM1to6Ave]

1 hour ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

It was quite bad where I live near the Bronx, especially during the last few weeks before fare collection was reinstated. However, in Manhattan it wasn’t as bad seeing how Midtown was a ghost town for a bit last year so seats were plentiful. I’m pretty sure others will dispute this seeing how all experiences are not equal in any way.

Yeah, I was taking Midtown routes and it was a ghost town on those buses for many months. Same with some of the Queens routes

[MHV9218]

2 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

I definitely don't miss when the buses were free. I could hardly keep the bus on time with the volumes of people trying to squeeze on my vehicle. I've had to flag stops because the bus was packed to the gills. Talk about taking complete advantage of the "free" service! It was so bad to the point that people were complaining for fare collection to be reinstated because they couldn't get seats on the bus!

It's funny, buses are still free out in LA, and you still have to beg a lot of people to take the bus lol. 

[QM1to6Ave]

I see that bus 2910 is still surviving on the 10:30 pm QM6 run, it's really unbelievable lol

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Was there some special event this morning in Midtown? Took the express bus in, and as we approached 5th & 56th, two young guys were running around with cameras taking shots of I'm not sure what, but I guessed perhaps buses.  I think the people around them were as confused as I was. lol