BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's a really short looking route. Why does that line bunch so much? Looks like poor dispatching... That and the people on that line don't complain, so they run crap service.

The B12 is deceptive in that category.... Having been a regular rider during the PM rush, I can tell you that a ride from Alabama to Clarkson/Albany typically took about 45-50 mins.... That's about 2/3rd of the route.... Although I left before the AM rush, without a doubt, I can tell you that the reverse (from Albany/Clarkson to Alabama) takes longer, with all them schoolkids.... But yeah, another (deceptive looking) route of the sort here in Brooklyn is the B70.

To opine on the question though, under quote-unquote normal circumstances, a slew of reasons.... But the one that's really conspicuous is the fact that the B12 has a high passenger activity/stop, combined with poor light synchronization (you can catch a B12 during the PM rush from either end terminal, have that bus leave absolutely jam-packed, and have it end up making every single stop for at least the first 1/3rd of the route.... with the next bus leaving with very few people on it)... It also has a significant elderly riderbase, which also slows things up a bit.... For the most part, the B12 hardly gets a chance to "move" during most of the day; too much slogging along the route... Back in 2018, the B12 was declared as being the most unreliable route in the city (by RD/Straphangers), which to me, came as NO surprise at all... LMAO!... Even the B35 local moves at a better rate, and for what Church av is, that's saying a lot...

Lackadaisical dispatching has a lot to do with it too... When I used to take it coming home from work (after getting off the LIRR), oh there were several times where I'd see at least 5-6 buses heading towards Alabama before a single WB bus arrived.... When you see over 20 people waiting at a stop like ENY/Pacific, something is very wrong - and it started being more & more commonplace - Which is why I ended up abandoning the B12 & started taking the at New Lots & walking to the B35 to get home instead.....

((of course, this was all before I gave up taking public transportation to get to work altogether))

56 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I just looked and 5 out of 6 buses on the B12 were heading toward Alabama Avenue. Piss poor dispatching. 

This is the reason I posted that screenshot... Saw all 6 buses heading towards Alabama, said f**k that, & just closed the browser tab.

50 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

That’s  essential planning for you. 

Thing is though, B12's are still out here packed to the brim... Just yesterday I went out for a walk & ventured around KCH (which is the quietest I've ever seen Clarkson av around 6-7 PM)... I saw an EB & a WB B12 along the way & both were stuffed....

You know, for all these supposed covid-19 cases, KCH was dead as shit... You would think the hospital was closed or something...

Plenty ambulances driving around the neighborhood with sirens blazing though

Edited April 10, 2020 by B35 via Church

[EastFlatbushLarry]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's a really short looking route. Why does that line bunch so much? Looks like poor dispatching... That and the people on that line don't complain, so they run crap service.

the 12 looks short on paper however, like the b14 & q56, stops are rather close together. also, being that it's a Brooklyn crosstown, it gets it's share of usage. not to mention all the hospital employees & home health aides that ride that line. finally, the 12 interlines with the Q24, B25, and others... so lateness is a issue that carries over from one line to the next, regardless if it's a terminal interline or relief interline.

P.S.

it was mentioned, yet just like the b14, 65 & 45... the elderly use the 12 significantly. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by EastFlatbushLarry

[OrionVIIonM79]

#6761 is on the Bx28

[B35 via Church]

12 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

the 12 looks short on paper however, like the b14 & q56, stops are rather close together. also, being that it's a Brooklyn crosstown, it gets it's share of usage. not to mention all the hospital employees & home health aides that ride that line. finally, the 12 interlines with the Q24, B25, and others... so lateness is a issue that carries over from one line to the next, regardless if it's a terminal interline or relief interline.

P.S.

it was mentioned, yet just like the b14, 65 & 45... the elderly use the 12 significantly. 

Touching on the crosstown point for a second, an argument can be made for having the western half of the B12 be a separate route all by itself! I believe if the stopped at Parkside (not saying it should), you would have less people on B35's & more people on B12's... Nothing grandiose, but still an observation I've made over time - as few people bother doing that disembarking at Prospect Park shit to wait for the for one stop.... Plenty B35 riders between Albany & say, Flatbush emanate from areas north of Church....

Having it run along ENY av. east of Utica, only strengthens it.... I'm vehemently against straightening it along Clarkson.... But having previously ran along Liberty to City line, to me, was just plain stupid; MTA should have been eliminated that portion of the route; it consistently & frequently carried a lot of air for YEARS before the fact.....

It has its problems, but the current B12 is a solid bus route AFAIC.... Hope nothing ends up happening to it, whenever the redesign for this borough rolls about....

[OrionVIIonM79]

I know this is really random, but why do they run only XD40s on the M66/72? And before XD40 they only ran RTS.

[Iron Valiant]

Just now, OrionVIIonM79 said:

I know this is really random, but why do they run only XD40s on the M66/72? And before XD40 they only ran RTS.

I think it has something that has to do with the Orions not being able to fit through the transverse.

[NewFlyer 230]

At least the B12 still has more buses running on it compared to the Q59. I checked the route at 8:30pm and there is only one measly bus running towards Queens Blvd-62nd Drive. Riders on Grand Ave are lucky they have the Q58 which is why they can get away with running the Q59 the way it does. 

[OrionVIIonM79]

Just now, Snorunts said:

I think it has something that has to do with the Orions not being able to fit through the transverse.

And the fatass RTSs could? Also XD40s are the same height as Orions

[NewFlyer 230]

2 minutes ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

And the fatass RTSs could? Also XD40s are the same height as Orions

I think the battery compartment on the Orion VII’s is what makes it risky to run it through the 65th street traverse. The LFS and the XD40s are not as tall. 

[MHV9218]

16 minutes ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

And the fatass RTSs could? Also XD40s are the same height as Orions

'Fatass' RTSes were the most compact buses in the MTA fleet, only 9' tall.

[Jdog14]

1 hour ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

I know this is really random, but why do they run only XD40s on the M66/72? And before XD40 they only ran RTS.

 

The batteries on the Orions would probably scrape the side of the tunnels where the clearance is much lower than say the middle of the road. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jdog14

[EastFlatbushLarry]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

'Fatass' RTSes were the most compact buses in the MTA fleet, only 9' tall.

rts's were 10 feet 6 inches to be exact. hybrids are 11 feet 5 inches with the roof component. 

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

And the fatass RTSs could? Also XD40s are the same height as Orions

Neither of these statements are true.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Touching on the crosstown point for a second, an argument can be made for having the western half of the B12 be a separate route all by itself! I believe if the stopped at Parkside (not saying it should), you would have less people on B35's & more people on B12's... Nothing grandiose, but still an observation I've made over time - as few people bother doing that disembarking at Prospect Park shit to wait for the for one stop.... Plenty B35 riders between Albany & say, Flatbush emanate from areas north of Church....

Having it run along ENY av. east of Utica, only strengthens it.... I'm vehemently against straightening it along Clarkson.... But having previously ran along Liberty to City line, to me, was just plain stupid; MTA should have been eliminated that portion of the route; it consistently & frequently carried a lot of air for YEARS before the fact.....

It has its problems, but the current B12 is a solid bus route AFAIC.... Hope nothing ends up happening to it, whenever the redesign for this borough rolls about....

i agree with some of your point, and Lord have mercy, summer 2009 I line trained on the B12 and only got city line trips.. never had a depot short-sign (at the time) that thing carried air along Liberty. absolutely useless & a waste of resources... especially if you were late and didn't get adjusted. the 12 was a solid line once upon a time (when it shared East NY Avenue with the 40) and depending on the crew of operators on that line, it currently could/should be. if you get a group of operators (male or female) who are only there for run pay, and you're the only one who came to actually work, you will have a miserable tour (same goes for the B25)

as far as the redesign goes, unfortunately, i can easily see them straightening out the 12 along empire blvd to flatbush avenue. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

2 hours ago, Snorunts said:

I think it has something that has to do with the Orions not being able to fit through the transverse.

orions can fit thru the transverse, however, as an operator, you'd have to have your left wheels on or over the double yellow lines to ensure you have enough clearance everytime you pass under the overpass... similar to how east ny depot operators have to be in the middle lane on the van Wyck service road after Jamaica hospital to avoid striking the overpass because of low clearance near the curb. curved overpasses usually curve down to approx. 9 feet high. 

[paulrivera]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Really now

The Bustrek bunker is literally around the corner from the ENY end of the B12. How are there so many dispatchers inside that building covering all 5 boroughs and they can't even fix a route that's literally right in front of their noses?

[Jdog14]

2 hours ago, paulrivera said:

The Bustrek bunker is literally around the corner from the ENY end of the B12. How are there so many dispatchers inside that building covering all 5 boroughs and they can't even fix a route that's literally right in front of their noses?

 

Because they don't care when an operator is late, only if he/she is early so they can discipline them. 

[brakethrow]

13 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Really now

Unreliable ass bus service ass you already know (just venting). The amount of times I've seen three B25s come and go before a B12 while waiting at Alabama during rush hour is ridiculous. 20+ min wait times at that stop during rush hour was the norm.

 

What is it that makes the B12 literally the most unreliable bus service in the city?

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, paulrivera said:

The Bustrek bunker is literally around the corner from the ENY end of the B12. How are there so many dispatchers inside that building covering all 5 boroughs and they can't even fix a route that's literally right in front of their noses?

What @Jdog14 said. I also know that some drivers were VEHEMENTLY opposed to being tracked when BusTime and BusTrek came out. Not sure what the big deal is if you're operating appropriately... In any event, I'm sure the B12 could benefit from having off-fare payment.

[Lex]

58 minutes ago, brakethrow said:

Unreliable ass bus service ass you already know (just venting). The amount of times I've seen three B25s come and go before a B12 while waiting at Alabama during rush hour is ridiculous. 20+ min wait times at that stop during rush hour was the norm.

 

What is it that makes the B12 literally the most unreliable bus service in the city?

 

Too many things, really. As others mentioned, there's interlining with other routes and poor dispatching. There's also the issues of the route and its primary street (East New York Avenue) having quite a bit of draw, coupled with the aforementioned street's width, layout, and place in the grid (especially apparent with those parts of the route following the street, only to suddenly break from alignment before returning to it).

Addressing the route's internal issues will help, but the ones tied to the streets will require some larger changes.

[OrionVIIonM79]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bkreader.com/2018/07/25/b12-citys-unreliable-bus-route/amp/
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.amny.com/transit/worst-bus-routes-nyc-1-20075714/amp/
 

https://patch.com/new-york/prospectheights/brooklyn-citys-most-unreliable-bus
 

... and there is even more sites

 

[MHV9218]

13 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

rts's were 10 feet 6 inches to be exact. hybrids are 11 feet 5 inches with the roof component. 

Whoops, I was thinking of the signs on 72nd when I wrote that.

The MTA numbers I had were 10ft O5/RTS, 11 ft D60HF, 11'5 MCI cruiser...that's probably rounded right?

[QM1to6Ave]

20 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

 

You know, for all these supposed covid-19 cases, KCH was dead as shit... You would think the hospital was closed or something...

Plenty ambulances driving around the neighborhood with sirens blazing though

It's deceiving...the hospitals have cancelled all outpatient, elective, and non-emergency appts so many of the public-facing parts of the hospitals look like ghost towns. The "action" is very much happening in the ICUs and other floors hidden away from the public eye. 

[trainfan22]

52 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

It's deceiving...the hospitals have cancelled all outpatient, elective, and non-emergency appts so many of the public-facing parts of the hospitals look like ghost towns. The "action" is very much happening in the ICUs and other floors hidden away from the public eye. 

Yeah, I visit a hospital a couple of times a month and now those appointments gotta be done over the phone. I actually went to the Hospital in mid March and they was checking everybody's temperature before you entered the building, and the area I go to which is usually fairly crowded was empty that day. Also the seating area in the lobby was roped off.

[aemoreira81]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:29 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's a really short looking route. Why does that line bunch so much? Looks like poor dispatching... That and the people on that line don't complain, so they run crap service.

You think that's bad? The Q56 passes in FRONT of them and that route is horribly dispatched. Before all of these issues, it was not unusual to have a 30-35-minute gap.