SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Theli11]

9 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Exactly where do see 80% ridership on the subway system ? I don't think it's hit 60 % of the pre-pandemic level yet. Just curious.  Carry on. 

It's also the holidays so not a lot of commuting for work or school. If it carries into the New Years, we'd have a different problem.

[paulrivera]

9 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Exactly where do see 80% ridership on the subway system ? I don't think it's hit 60 % of the pre-pandemic level yet. Just curious.  Carry on. 

In the outer boroughs probably.

I don't know the stats borough-by-borough, but if the  put out ridership stats by borough, I'd think that ridership would look something like 80% Bronx, 90% Queens, 90% Brooklyn, 50% Manhattan, and 50% Staten Island .

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Exactly where do see 80% ridership on the subway system ? I don't think it's hit 60 % of the pre-pandemic level yet. Just curious.  Carry on. 

I would like to know as well. The  has been releasing data on ridership on a regular basis. At best, it's 50 - 60% what it was pre-COVID, as over the last week or so, it's been down considerably.

https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/ridership

https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus-ridership-2020

As far as workers go, most offices are still closed and this has been well documented in the media. Per CNBC, ~28% of NYC offices have re-opened.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/10/only-28percent-of-manhattan-workers-are-back-in-the-office-.html

Just about everyone I know that works in the City is seeing a delayed re-opening if any at all. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 12/26/2021 at 9:11 PM, Vulturious said:

So coming in from another thread, there was a question that came to my mind. Not sure if this was ever discussed before, but might as well ask now because of the inclusion of SAS.

Seeing as the  was brought in because it was more preferred than a 6 Av service along Brighton, how would service run if people on Brighton wanted 6 Av service instead or rather put simply, what if the  stuck around instead? Have fun with this one.

Someone had fun with this one earlier this year…

I mean, his map shows it certainly is possible to have a  service between 2nd Ave and Brighton/CI. The question is, would you really want to? You’d be forced to leave a lot of unused track. The  would have to merge with the  at Rockefeller Center, then diverge at Lex-63. This  would preclude the operation of a Broadway-63rd service, so that whole segment of the 63rd St tunnel would have to be left unused except for emergency reroutes and non-revenue moves. And the  would be subjected to two merges in the Rock Center area - with the  northbound and the  southbound (that’s assuming the  is not sent back to Nassau St). Is it really worth doing?

16 hours ago, mrsman said:

As a follow up to my previous post, how would service run if all Brighton service went to Broadway and both Sea Beach and West End were serviced by 6th Ave trains?

I could envision the following:

96 St - Broadway express - Brighton local

 96 St - Broadway express - Brighton express [weekdays only]

Forest Hills - QBL local - Broadway local - 4th Ave local - Bay Ridge 

Astoria - Broadway local - Whitehall 

Bedford Park Blvd - 6th Ave express - 4th Ave express - Sea Beach

205 St - 6th Ave express - 4th Ave express - West End

The above service pattern would run during weekdays.  Some rush hour  trains will be extended to Bay Ridge, as the  service will increase to maintain adequate headways to Astoria.

On weekends, all of the above services will run, except .   will run to 168th instead of Bedford park Blvd and the will not run on weekends.  [ will run local in Brooklyn.]   

Late nights,  will run as above.   will run as above, except running along the 4th Ave local tracks in Brooklyn.  will run a shuttle between 36 St and Coney Island along Sea Beach.   will run Astoria- Broadway local - Bay Ridge.   and  will not run at all.

I like this plan better, but I’d reverse your  and . I’d rather not have a full-time local  train. And I think the  should run on weekends. I don’t think in this day and age, you can get away with a local  on weekends. 

[darkstar8983]

I know that this week, subway service was going to be reduced because of staff shortages, but maybe it  would be more practical to have the headways on some lines evened out (as much as possible), because the service is as inconsistent as it has been all year. Example:

Yes, the  is running local (no Skip-stop Express or Broadway-Brooklyn Express) since the  is suspended, but the headways are inconsistent. I thought a dispatcher knew with at least 30 minutes notice how many train crews would be missing, but I could be wrong. The advance notice (even though it may be minutes) can help even out headways  for departures when there are shortages. You'll see on the board:

 - Broad St - 1 min

 - Broad St - 5 min

 - Broad St- 29 mins

*Couldn't the 2nd  train have been held prior to departure to help plug the 24 minute gap?

 

another example:

The  had a 30 minute gap Manhattan-bound during the AM rush towards Harlem, but southbound trips were running on average every 10-12 minutes. Maybe that 30 minute gap could have been plug by having the lead train (prior to the gap) held to just have two 15-minute gaps instead of a 30-minute one. Again, I could be wrong about how evening out headways and trying to make trains as consistent as possible works.

 

Maybe a blanket change could be:

 - every 5 minutes instead of every 3 minutes

/ - every 10-12 minutes instead of every 5-6 mins.

etc.

Edited December 28, 2021 by darkstar8983

[R68ACTrain]

On 12/2/2021 at 8:54 AM, biGC323232 said:

Close 36 years old...

 

Oldest 68s are 35, youngest ones are 32. Oldest 68As are 33, and the youngest ones are 31.

[R68ACTrain]

59 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I know that this week, subway service was going to be reduced because of staff shortages, but maybe it  would be more practical to have the headways on some lines evened out (as much as possible), because the service is as inconsistent as it has been all year. Example:

Yes, the  is running local (no Skip-stop Express or Broadway-Brooklyn Express) since the  is suspended, but the headways are inconsistent. I thought a dispatcher knew with at least 30 minutes notice how many train crews would be missing, but I could be wrong. The advance notice (even though it may be minutes) can help even out headways  for departures when there are shortages. You'll see on the board:

 - Broad St - 1 min

 - Broad St - 5 min

 - Broad St- 29 mins

*Couldn't the 2nd  train have been held prior to departure to help plug the 24 minute gap?

 

another example:

The  had a 30 minute gap Manhattan-bound during the AM rush towards Harlem, but southbound trips were running on average every 10-12 minutes. Maybe that 30 minute gap could have been plug by having the lead train (prior to the gap) held to just have two 15-minute gaps instead of a 30-minute one. Again, I could be wrong about how evening out headways and trying to make trains as consistent as possible works.

 

Maybe a blanket change could be:

 - every 5 minutes instead of every 3 minutes

/ - every 10-12 minutes instead of every 5-6 mins.

etc.

The 1 is usually every 4 mins

[Lil 57]

So the  is suspended now due to staff shortages. Surprised that the  is still running express in Manhattan even though it would make more sense for it to run local since there is no .

[CenSin]

6 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

So the  is suspended now due to staff shortages. Surprised that the  is still running express in Manhattan even though it would make more sense for it to run local since there is no .

We wer told just over the intercom 5 minutes ago that “due to COVID-19, trains have been suspended. Take this instead which will be making all local stops in Manhattan.”

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

We wer told just over the intercom 5 minutes ago that “due to COVID-19, trains have been suspended. Take this instead which will be making all local stops in Manhattan.”

The  today is a mess. The headways are not consistent, and like you mentioned, SOME of the s are running express, some local, some via the Manhattan Bridge, and some thru Lower Manhattan.

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

So the  is suspended now due to staff shortages. Surprised that the  is still running express in Manhattan even though it would make more sense for it to run local since there is no .

Before you know it they’ll have to run “enhanced” weekend service because of the staffing shortages, meaning:

- No  service

-  trains local in the Bronx

-  trains local in Manhattan

- No  service in Brooklyn / no Nereid Av service, or Bronx Express

- they’ll try to keep the  running as much as they can, otherwise it too will be shortened to run only from Essex St to Metro Av

Edited December 29, 2021 by darkstar8983

[VIP]

40 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Before you know it they’ll have to run “enhanced” weekend service because of the staffing shortages, meaning:

- No  service

-  trains local in the Bronx

-  trains local in Manhattan

- No  service in Brooklyn / no Nereid Av service, or Bronx Express

- they’ll try to keep the  running as much as they can, otherwise it too will be shortened to run only from Essex St to Metro Av

“Essential” service schedule from 2020 basically. 

[trainfan22]

Service is so reduced today that they didn't have to use the Express track layups between 179th and Briarwood on the (F). 

 

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

Service is so reduced today that they didn't have to use the Express track layups between 179th and Briarwood on the (F). 

 

That’s nothing…the  in Astoria is running every 15-20 minutes, essentially 25% of regular service.

[mrsman]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:49 PM, darkstar8983 said:

I know that this week, subway service was going to be reduced because of staff shortages, but maybe it  would be more practical to have the headways on some lines evened out (as much as possible), because the service is as inconsistent as it has been all year. Example:

Yes, the  is running local (no Skip-stop Express or Broadway-Brooklyn Express) since the  is suspended, but the headways are inconsistent. I thought a dispatcher knew with at least 30 minutes notice how many train crews would be missing, but I could be wrong. The advance notice (even though it may be minutes) can help even out headways  for departures when there are shortages. You'll see on the board:

 - Broad St - 1 min

 - Broad St - 5 min

 - Broad St- 29 mins

*Couldn't the 2nd  train have been held prior to departure to help plug the 24 minute gap?

 

another example:

The  had a 30 minute gap Manhattan-bound during the AM rush towards Harlem, but southbound trips were running on average every 10-12 minutes. Maybe that 30 minute gap could have been plug by having the lead train (prior to the gap) held to just have two 15-minute gaps instead of a 30-minute one. Again, I could be wrong about how evening out headways and trying to make trains as consistent as possible works.

 

Maybe a blanket change could be:

 - every 5 minutes instead of every 3 minutes

/ - every 10-12 minutes instead of every 5-6 mins.

etc.

You are right that if there is any time of emergency that causes the service to be uneven, trains should be held to maintain even frequencies.  With your example, yes it would be better to hold the second train so that the service is every 14 minutes as opposed to a 4 minute gap and then a terrible 24 minute gap.

Holding a train for 14 minutes is harder to do in NY then in most other systems because of the interlining.  Holding a train for 14 minutes could mean that you are now cascading delays on other train lines, like which could cascade delays onto other trains like  and  , and pretty soon the delays could effect the entire train division.

Now if a similar delay were to affect a fully deinterlined line, like ,  ,  , or  it would be fairly easy to do what you suggest.  If  is operating inconsistently, hold some  trains to reduce overall service gaps.  Such "schudule adjustments" are common where one service runs on one track.

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Before you know it they’ll have to run “enhanced” weekend service because of the staffing shortages, meaning:

- No  service

-  trains local in the Bronx

-  trains local in Manhattan

- No  service in Brooklyn / no Nereid Av service, or Bronx Express

- they’ll try to keep the  running as much as they can, otherwise it too will be shortened to run only from Essex St to Metro Av

So far, according to the MTA’s website, only the  is making local stops in Manhattan except at 49th St, where the  is also stopping. At least they haven’t given up on the  yet, even after delays at DeKalb Ave due to a train with emergency brakes on. And the  is still running its full route but with very reduced service.

[darkstar8983]

2 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

So far, according to the MTA’s website, only the  is making local stops in Manhattan except at 49th St, where the  is also stopping. At least they haven’t given up on the  yet, even after delays at DeKalb Ave due to a train with emergency brakes on. And the  is still running its full route but with very reduced service.

Some s downtown this AM were making ALL stops even via Whitehall St. I think they didn’t even know how to operate the few  trains that were running. I’d say about 13 out of the 34  /  trains necessary for daily service ran today.

Edited December 29, 2021 by darkstar8983

[paulrivera]

Based on the seeing-eye test, the  line seems to be less affected by crew availability issues than the other lines, and maybe the  too. The B-division in general just seems to be a real shitshow except for *maybe* the .

Also, how are the wait times for the in-station COVID tests (GCT and TSQ) so far? The Bronx sites I normally go to are all running a bunch of sloppy shops, and that’s putting it mildly.

[Mtatransit]

4 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Based on the seeing-eye test, the  line seems to be less affected by crew availability issues than the other lines, and maybe the  too. The B-division in general just seems to be a real shitshow except for *maybe* the .

Depending on when you look, towards the evening, you start seeing trips/service drop off with missing trips. 

Still worse on the B Div, but I waited 26 minutes on the  before at 11PM when it is suppose to come every 8-10, so definitely not completely immune to shortages. 

 

The B Div on the other hand including the  just runs like complete crap these days especially on the weekends. I'm starting to take the  directly into Manhattan vs transferring to the QBL or the  for the fear that it either

* Crawls in the tunnel for 25 minutes to Queens Plaza due to construction

* The next train being 20 minutes away at 12 Noon

[darkstar8983]

And out goes the  and Bronx Express  train 

[R32 3838]

On 12/28/2021 at 12:11 AM, Trainmaster5 said:

Exactly where do see 80% ridership on the subway system ? I don't think it's hit 60 % of the pre-pandemic level yet. Just curious.  Carry on. 

 

I been using the subway daily and I can tell you I've been on Packed and Trains daily between 2pm and 6pm. I go by what i see and since more people have been back to work with the exception of a decent chunk of office workers plus students going back to school. But with these new mandates I expect the ridership to drop by 5 to 10%. Maybe 80% was a stretch but I would say at least 70%. Documentation doesn't mean anything because they go by fares and most people who ride the system fare beat.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how bad crowding is going to be on the 3rd with these reduced services when people are going back to school and work. If they make all classes remote again, That's a chunk of ridership right there.

[Mtatransit]

33 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Documentation doesn't mean anything because they go by fares and most people who ride the system fare beat.

^^^^ This

The official figure is definitely higher than MTA's single digit percentage for fare beating.

 

35 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I been using the subway daily and I can tell you I've been on Packed and Trains daily between 2pm and 6pm. 

But to be fair, I think ridership in Queens recovered significantly faster (and didn't drop as significantly) compared to Manhattan where ridership has not yet recovered nearly as quickly

[Calvin]

Overview of today: 

-  weekday routes suspended

-  still running on its weekday schedule, 8-cars but 4 car length tomorrow

-  running almost of a weekend schedule 

-   running Express both AM/PM rush. Some  put-ins to Utica Av and Nereid Av from E.180 St Yard were cancelled. 

-  is every 10-12 minutes, the trains to/from Kings Highway and  peak trips were cancelled

I think  to/from Rockaway Park were cancelled

Edited December 31, 2021 by Calvin

[Lil 57]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

-  still running on its weekday schedule, 8-cars but 4 car length tomorrow

So will the  run weekend service tomorrow or are 4-car trains going to be going all the way to Forrest Hills?

If the second one, does this have to do with running the trains OPTO to reduce the number of staff needed per train?

[Calvin]

11 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

So will the  run weekend service tomorrow or are 4-car trains going to be going all the way to Forrest Hills?

If the second one, does this have to do with running the trains OPTO to reduce the number of staff needed per train?

The  will run 4-car trains to/from Essex St. Going to/from Forest Hills requires passengers to use the  as an alternative. Also, OPTO is in-use.