T to Dyre Avenue Posted December 9, 2021 Share #26901 Posted December 9, 2021 On 12/7/2021 at 9:34 AM, NewFlyer 230 said: I always wondered, why is the like the is allowed to have different route branches instead of having its branches renamed to avoid confusion. I know it would cost a lot of money to change signs and all but wouldn’t it make sense for the to Nereid Ave to be called the instead and leave Dyre Ave as the . So is there a reason why the MTA has never renamed the and the trains branches? It's funny because many years ago, I thought they were going to rename the the because I kept seeing signs on the middle cars in R62A trains on the . There was even one period of time in 1993 where I saw a 5-car set in Unionport Yard entirely signed up as on my way to school. Why it was there, I don't know. At that time, both the and ran entirely with Redbirds and it was several years before the decision to go OPTO on the Dyre Shuttle. On 12/7/2021 at 11:27 AM, darkstar8983 said: Its probably since the majority of the routes would overlap. The branches out at Rockaway Blvd, but the route from 207 St to Rockaway Blvd is identical for both branches, similar to how the from Flatbush Av to E180 St would be identical between the 238 St and Dyre Av branches. Another point against relabeling the branch is that it only runs in the peak direction rush, as opposed to the branches that run at all times except late nights Yes, I never really saw a reason to change the Nereid to another number. I never even saw the need to change it from a diamond to a circle. It's a peak direction rush hours only service. Because the Lefferts and Far Rockaway branches run seven days a week, I can see more of a reason to change one of those. But even then, the split east of Rockaway Blvd accounts for a relatively small portion of the entire line. Now, if there was also a split at north end of the line - like for a crosstown Bronx service, as has been proposed on here in the past - then I would definitely be in favor of using a new letter like for one of the new branches. But as is, I don't really see the need for it, especially since riders aren't getting a full service on either the Lefferts or Far Rockaway branches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted December 9, 2021 Share #26902 Posted December 9, 2021 3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: It's funny because many years ago, I thought they were going to rename the the because I kept seeing signs on the middle cars in R62A trains on the . There was even one period of time in 1993 where I saw a 5-car set in Unionport Yard entirely signed up as on my way to school. Why it was there, I don't know. At that time, both the and ran entirely with Redbirds and it was several years before the decision to go OPTO on the Dyre Shuttle. Yes, I never really saw a reason to change the Nereid to another number. I never even saw the need to change it from a diamond to a circle. It's a peak direction rush hours only service. Because the Lefferts and Far Rockaway branches run seven days a week, I can see more of a reason to change one of those. But even then, the split east of Rockaway Blvd accounts for a relatively small portion of the entire line. Now, if there was also a split at north end of the line - like for a crosstown Bronx service, as has been proposed on here in the past - then I would definitely be in favor of using a new letter like for one of the new branches. But as is, I don't really see the need for it, especially since riders aren't getting a full service on either the Lefferts or Far Rockaway branches. There was never actually an official reasoning to why those extra numbers exist, like and . I assume it was to rename the express branches like you mentioned, but some of the numbers don't make sense. I presume was for the 3rd Av Elevated I have no clue was for the was for the was for an express version of the ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted December 9, 2021 Share #26903 Posted December 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Lawrence St said: There was never actually an official reasoning to why those extra numbers exist, like and . I assume it was to rename the express branches like you mentioned, but some of the numbers don't make sense. I presume was for the 3rd Av Elevated I have no clue was for the was for the was for an express version of the ? I would assume that would've been the service that was planned to be connected to the new subway replacement for the 3rd Av EL that would've ran along Lexington Av? Last I checked, the new subway replacement was either going to be a service for SAS or Lexington. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26904 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) Keeping with the branched routes, if the MTA continues to be piece-meal with its service routings and "increases / reroutes", I wouldn't be surprised if SAS Phase 2 has the and a split-route diverging at 34 St-Herald Sq (Astoria 's stopping at 49 St, with 125 St-bound 's remaining express to 57 St-7 Av, then via the to 125 St), with just a one-for-one increase in service, with no other route changes, except with a slight increase in the number of trains that continue making the trek towards Brooklyn at the end of the rush hour. Therefore, the on each branch would probably be every 10-12 minutes rush hours, every 20 minutes all other times except late nights, and overnight, all s serving the Astoria branch exclusively , and would then join the and with having two branches for each route. Edited December 10, 2021 by darkstar8983 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26905 Posted December 10, 2021 On 12/8/2021 at 10:26 PM, Missabassie said: I saw this in the news back in the day, and they had the nerve to say they were getting rid of the to eliminate confusion, in reality the opposite occurred. Stupid games for stupid prizes. I was going to stay out of this discussion about the line signage and it seems that most posters are too young to know what the difference was supposed to mean. The diamond only meant Bronx peak direction service on the Lex line. 241 St- Gun Hill Road-East 180th St-149th and 3rd Avenue. Bronx Thru Express. PERIOD. I worked the for most of my career in RTO so trust me when I say that I've seen the changes and know the reasoning. My very first picked job on the was a pm run which started at Utica and ran up to 241 St. This was before the Redbird era, SMEE equipment, defaced with someone's idea of "art". There was no diamond display on the end sign. Just a 5. The towers and supervision knew what intervals we were by our marker light setup. Bronx Thru Express n/b on Lex meant Red over the cab and yellow marker lights on the offside. The display became problematic in the Redbird era. All service ran express from 3rd Avenue to East 180th but because of congestion at 241 St terminal in the evening rush which delayed service most WPR service on the became labeled as and ran local from East 180th St to 241St and eventually cut back to Nereid- 238th St. Dyre service was allowed to carry the side signs because it was determined that many confused riders at 149th St-Third Avenue in the pm rush were delaying trains unsure if the train was running express after that stop. The construction work at East 180th St around the station, and the introduction of the R142 equipment was the death knell for the signage. Even for the year or so period when my Conductor and I ran that R62A from Brooklyn up to Dyre we never used the signage because of two reasons. If we arrived at Dyre late and the train was needed immediately there was no one available and no time to change the signs. The same thing applied if we were turned somewhere enroute. I should point out that the procedure for trains originating at Flatbush Avenue during the SMEE era was slightly different. There were conductors assigned to work the platform there during the pm rush who changed signs. The dispatcher there would announce " changeover" over the station PA signifying changing the signage in the cars from Dyre to 241/238 and via Bronx Thru Express. My memories of that era. Carry on. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26906 Posted December 10, 2021 5 hours ago, darkstar8983 said: Keeping with the branched routes, if the MTA continues to be piece-meal with its service routings and "increases / reroutes", I wouldn't be surprised if SAS Phase 2 has the and a split-route diverging at 34 St-Herald Sq (Astoria 's stopping at 49 St, with 125 St-bound 's remaining express to 57 St-7 Av, then via the to 125 St), with just a one-for-one increase in service, with no other route changes, except with a slight increase in the number of trains that continue making the trek towards Brooklyn at the end of the rush hour. Therefore, the on each branch would probably be every 10-12 minutes rush hours, every 20 minutes all other times except late nights, and overnight, all s serving the Astoria branch exclusively , and would then join the and with having two branches for each route. This is IF Astoria residents don't mind losing half their express trains. Let's see how this would hold together: Rush hours - 8tph to Astoria, 7tph to 2nd Avenue - 10tph to 2nd Avenue - 8tph to Astoria Midday - 3tph to Astoria, 3tph to 2nd Avenue - 6tph to 2nd Avenue (cost neutral practice) - 3tph to Astoria (cost neutral practice) (midday pattern is based on typical service patterns that run during GO's on the Astoria line) Evenings and Weekends - 2.5tph to Astoria, 2.5tph to 2nd Avenue - 6tph to 2nd Avenue (cost neutral practice) - 2.5tph to Astoria. Overnights: No changes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26907 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: I was going to stay out of this discussion about the line signage and it seems that most posters are too young to know what the difference was supposed to mean. The diamond only meant Bronx peak direction service on the Lex line. 241 St- Gun Hill Road-East 180th St-149th and 3rd Avenue. Bronx Thru Express. PERIOD. I worked the for most of my career in RTO so trust me when I say that I've seen the changes and know the reasoning. My very first picked job on the was a pm run which started at Utica and ran up to 241 St. This was before the Redbird era, SMEE equipment, defaced with someone's idea of "art". There was no diamond display on the end sign. Just a 5. The towers and supervision knew what intervals we were by our marker light setup. Bronx Thru Express n/b on Lex meant Red over the cab and yellow marker lights on the offside. The display became problematic in the Redbird era. All service ran express from 3rd Avenue to East 180th but because of congestion at 241 St terminal in the evening rush which delayed service most WPR service on the became labeled as and ran local from East 180th St to 241St and eventually cut back to Nereid- 238th St. Dyre service was allowed to carry the side signs because it was determined that many confused riders at 149th St-Third Avenue in the pm rush were delaying trains unsure if the train was running express after that stop. The construction work at East 180th St around the station, and the introduction of the R142 equipment was the death knell for the signage. Even for the year or so period when my Conductor and I ran that R62A from Brooklyn up to Dyre we never used the signage because of two reasons. If we arrived at Dyre late and the train was needed immediately there was no one available and no time to change the signs. The same thing applied if we were turned somewhere enroute. I should point out that the procedure for trains originating at Flatbush Avenue during the SMEE era was slightly different. There were conductors assigned to work the platform there during the pm rush who changed signs. The dispatcher there would announce " changeover" over the station PA signifying changing the signage in the cars from Dyre to 241/238 and via Bronx Thru Express. My memories of that era. Carry on. There's a bit of irony in that, but I'm not surprised. In addition to the side displays actually making it harder to relay that info, the announcements would be utterly useless in indicating such. Hell, that designation would be at its most useful for the reverse-peak/early midday express runs to East 180th Street/Gun Hill Road, and I'm not even sure if those existed at all prior to 2009. Edited December 10, 2021 by Lex 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26908 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, paulrivera said: This is IF Astoria residents don't mind losing half their express trains. Let's see how this would hold together: Rush hours - 8tph to Astoria, 7tph to 2nd Avenue - 10tph to 2nd Avenue - 8tph to Astoria Midday - 3tph to Astoria, 3tph to 2nd Avenue - 6tph to 2nd Avenue (cost neutral practice) - 3tph to Astoria (cost neutral practice) (midday pattern is based on typical service patterns that run during GO's on the Astoria line) Evenings and Weekends - 2.5tph to Astoria, 2.5tph to 2nd Avenue - 6tph to 2nd Avenue (cost neutral practice) - 2.5tph to Astoria. Overnights: No changes. In no way am I saying it is practical, but it’s likely with the MTA would do. Maybe the TPH would be different as follows: Rush Hours: - 5TPH Astoria / 5TPH 2 Av - 10TPH 2 Av - 9 TPH Astoria (two of these trains will continue to Brooklyn and one will short turn at Canal St) Middays: - 3TPH 2 Av / 3 TPH Astoria - 7.5 TPH - 6TPH *this frequency would also accommodate Astoria track work, and if it doesn’t, then all s to 2 Av and all (6 TPH) to Astoria Evenings: - 3TPH 2 Av / 3 TPH Astoria - 6TPH Astoria - 6-7 TPH 2 Av Weekends: - 6TPH (3 TPH for each Branch), which mean service would have to be increased again along the route to every 10 minutes, which was done before on the from 10 minutes to 8 minutes. - - 7.5 TPH for 2 Av - - 5 TPH for Astoria I know that phase 2 is still a ways away, but it’s something to consider after the R211 order comes in because there may be extra cars available to run more service, and you can bet that the politicians will fight to run more service before phase 2 opens Edited December 10, 2021 by darkstar8983 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26909 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) The holiday train will not be on the rails seeing it in person this year. However, the R32s will take its place. Also, the final run will occur when we are in January 2022. Final line to be in-use: the uincy. https://www.nytransitmuseum.org/r32/?fbclid=IwAR1sD8i52RWnHsJJ_Q7heNgbfc2CpKsw5S596t50a32IbAL4RJWA3ERsajM Edited December 10, 2021 by Calvin 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26910 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Calvin said: The holiday train will not be on the rails seeing it in person this year. However, the R32s will take its place. Also, the final run will occur when we are in January 2022. Final line to be in-use: the uincy. https://www.nytransitmuseum.org/r32/?fbclid=IwAR1sD8i52RWnHsJJ_Q7heNgbfc2CpKsw5S596t50a32IbAL4RJWA3ERsajM Wow, couldn't ask for a better send off for a subway car fleet, how fitting the final run will be on an South Brooklyn BMT line.. right where they started. Edited December 10, 2021 by trainfan22 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26911 Posted December 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, Calvin said: The holiday train will not be on the rails seeing it in person this year. However, the R32s will take its place. Also, the final run will occur when we are in January 2022. Final line to be in-use: the uincy. https://www.nytransitmuseum.org/r32/?fbclid=IwAR1sD8i52RWnHsJJ_Q7heNgbfc2CpKsw5S596t50a32IbAL4RJWA3ERsajM What's confusing to me is how the R32 is running on a good chunk of the line, but doesn't run for at least all of or extends to anywhere else along the line like either the Bronx or into South Brooklyn. Could've easily sent it to maybe Bay Parkway since trains are still temporarily truncated to Bay 50 St. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted December 10, 2021 Share #26912 Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Vulturious said: What's confusing to me is how the R32 is running on a good chunk of the line, but doesn't run for at least all of or extends to anywhere else along the line like either the Bronx or into South Brooklyn. Could've easily sent it to maybe Bay Parkway since trains are still temporarily truncated to Bay 50 St. It's basically a replacement for the holiday train + a last run added to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26913 Posted December 11, 2021 4 hours ago, trainfan22 said: Wow, couldn't ask for a better send off for a subway car fleet, how fitting the final run will be on an South Brooklyn BMT line.. right where they started. Didn't they start on the ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26914 Posted December 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said: Didn't they start on the ? I think that was the R46 alongside the , if memory serves me right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10 2952 Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26915 Posted December 11, 2021 Imagine the tsunami of foam if they ran it as an (brownM) to Metropolitan, or an to Chambers. Would be hilarious. Either way, they will be missed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26916 Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) The will receive elevators at 8th Av, Brooklyn and Queensboro Plaza shared with the 7. Also, Court Sq train. These are one of the stations mentioned to have elevators installed. https://www.facebook.com/mta/videos/4948100135221285/ Edited December 11, 2021 by Calvin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26917 Posted December 11, 2021 31 minutes ago, Calvin said: The will receive elevators at 8th Av, Brooklyn and Queensboro Plaza shared with the 7. Also, Court Sq train. These are one of the stations mentioned to have elevators installed. https://www.facebook.com/mta/videos/4948100135221285/ Given what's going on beneath the station, I'm interested to see what they'll do. As for 8th Avenue, are they still not finished with that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26918 Posted December 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Calvin said: I think that was the R46 alongside the , if memory serves me right. The R46’s started off on the and correct! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon2305 Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26919 Posted December 11, 2021 17 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said: The R46’s started off on the and correct! More like and ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted December 11, 2021 Share #26920 Posted December 11, 2021 13 hours ago, Calvin said: I think that was the R46 alongside the , if memory serves me right. Correct, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the will host the last R46 and R68/R68A trips, because soon the IND will be off limits, unless they do a shortened version of those lines 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siemenslover Posted December 12, 2021 Share #26921 Posted December 12, 2021 What’s with people smoking on the ? Been a daily occurrence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted December 12, 2021 Share #26922 Posted December 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Siemenslover said: What’s with people smoking on the ? Been a daily occurrence Generally speaking, smoking in the subway is nothing new. I've personally witnessed more than I'd like, all because some jackasses think it's a good idea to light up in an underground subway car. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted December 12, 2021 Share #26923 Posted December 12, 2021 (edited) On 12/10/2021 at 8:06 PM, Lawrence St said: Didn't they start on the ? They did. But also on the . Edited December 12, 2021 by T to Dyre Avenue 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTA Posted December 14, 2021 Share #26924 Posted December 14, 2021 QBL is hot garbage right now. You got and trains crawling between Roosevelt and Continental. Avoid if needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biGC323232 Posted December 14, 2021 Share #26925 Posted December 14, 2021 1 hour ago, NBTA said: QBL is hot garbage right now. You got and trains crawling between Roosevelt and Continental. Avoid if needed. LOL...A Few train ran local past a few on the exp track 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.