darkstar8983 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25426 Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Lex said: Or we could just do what we've done prior to the past decade and just serve the entire system. (Hell, noisy as it is, Chicago has a plan to keep trains and passengers moving.) I think its a safety issue when people slip in the snow, and to prevent them from slipping onto the tracks because they are not cleaned on a minute-by-minute basis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25427 Posted February 2, 2021 Detail I noticed going through some old photos (@Union Tpke, you might be interested): - lower-level W4 received new Vignelli black-on-white Unimark signs as earlier as spring 1968, possibly 1967 (in time for the Chrystie changes and Grand's opening); - upper-level W4 received those signs by spring 1969 - rest of the 8th Ave probably around this time, but not all the way up; - 125-145th never received these signs, only 'halfway' signs with white modules for bullets and white-on-black otherwise by the mid-1970s. No new pillar signs on 8th Avenue until ~1981, when black-on-white enamel signs were installed (like 72nd and 135th had until recently). Exception for Chambers. And it turns out that 71st-Continental actually received Unimark Vignelli signs in 1968-1969. I had no idea any Queens stations received these signs. Looks to be a sign for the EE and GG together. Credit to the late Joe Testagrose: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25428 Posted February 2, 2021 Did the MTA really propose to have weekday train service run via 53rd street and trains run via 63rd? I think a major plus to this is that all express service would serve Lexington Ave, and it eliminates the delays that happen at Queens Plaza and 36th street with trains crossing in front of one another. The only issue would be that Lexington Ave/53rd street would be even more of a sardine can during rush hours. I know the and served the station together for decades so I suppose it could work again if the MTA really wanted it to. I just wonder how the would do if it went via 63rd street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25429 Posted February 2, 2021 32 minutes ago, Mtatransit said: Oh boy I can imagine people saying this if this happens "what if we extend the to Jamaica Center from 71 Ave so it can be on both the lower level and the upper level at Sutphin and Parson Archer!" Believe me, I know... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Ridge Express Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25430 Posted February 2, 2021 4 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: Well this thread I made in 2017 didn’t age too well. (Even though we’ve only just entered the 2nd month of 2021) Welp, you got a 4 out of 8. In some contexts, that's considered passing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25431 Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, darkstar8983 said: I think its a safety issue when people slip in the snow, and to prevent them from slipping onto the tracks because they are not cleaned on a minute-by-minute basis. And that's not an issue in Chicago? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Ridge Express Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25432 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Btw, was the SIR just running normally today? Nothing was posted on the website. Edited February 2, 2021 by Bay Ridge Express 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25433 Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Mtatransit said: Oh boy I can imagine people saying this if this happens "what if we extend the to Jamaica Center from 71 Ave so it can be on both the lower level and the upper level at Sutphin and Parson Archer!" Look, I'll admit that I find the thought of a theoretical service of the sort amusing, but in practice, that's something that would need to be reserved for particularly extreme circumstances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25434 Posted February 2, 2021 36 minutes ago, Lex said: And that's not an issue in Chicago? Probably not, but aside from being on a lake and not an ocean where wind gusts and marine layers affect things, CTA is a better run organization with better maintenance-of-way and facility practices. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25435 Posted February 2, 2021 Why is the (SIR) exempt from all system wide subway changes? It's not affected by the overnight closure, closure of outdoor service during the winter storm, etc etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucey Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25436 Posted February 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, Lawrence St said: Why is the (SIR) exempt from all system wide subway changes? It's not affected by the overnight closure, closure of outdoor service during the winter storm, etc etc. The rules apply to ; Staten Island is SIRTOA - legally a different organization. Same reason why LIRR runs 24/7. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxwell179 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25437 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Would it be possible to connect the tracks at Fulton St to the local tracks at Atlantic Av or are the two stations too close together ? ( hypothetical question ) Edited February 2, 2021 by Maxwell179 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25438 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Maxwell179 said: Would it be possible to connect the tracks at Fulton St to the local tracks at Atlantic Av or are the two stations too close together ? ( hypothetical question ) I'd say the tracks would be too far apart (looking at the map) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25439 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Maxwell179 said: Would it be possible to connect the tracks at Fulton St to the local tracks at Atlantic Av or are the two stations too close together ? ( hypothetical question ) Given the sea of tracks over there, I don't think you'd be able to. Even if it were possible, I don't see the benefit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25440 Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Maxwell179 said: Would it be possible to connect the tracks at Fulton St to the local tracks at Atlantic Av or are the two stations too close together ? ( hypothetical question ) The Fulton St tracks are adjacent to the Lafayette Avenue station tracks. The next set of tracks are the Brighton tracks under the IRT tracks at Atlantic Avenue before you reach the Fourth Avenue lines trackage, IIRC. Remember that the LIRR tracks are also next to the IRT tracks, too. Too close actually applies to my first example as the stations are physically next to each other underground and at street level. I hope that I’ve answered your question. Carry on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25441 Posted February 2, 2021 19 hours ago, Stormxx said: So if the would terminate at whitehall and the would run via the to Bay Ridge full time? Good idea. Maybe the could run via the from delancey-essex to West 8th St full time. There needs to be another line running via Culver, because many people ride the every day. Bring back the R32's, put 'em on the and . Take the 179's from the , (3010-3049 and 3238-3327) and bring them to Coney Island. Also, take 80% of the 160a-1's from ENY and bring em to coney. That should be enough for the . One last problem, 4 car vs 5 car units. The is 4 car, while the is 5 car, so the would have to be a little short in train length. That is impossible to run the via the from Delancey-Essex to West 8 St which just brings up a good question, why West 8 St of all places on Culver? The platform for Nassau platform at Essex is perpendicular to the platform for the , it would be way too tight of a curve for the to run along Culver anyways coming from either Williamsburg Bridge or from Broad St. Even if the were to run along Culver, what would make people take it? Just because it runs to Manhattan doesn't mean people would prefer that line over the regardless if the were to run local on Culver or not. Yes, I do agree the that Culver should have another line running, but it cannot be the since I already mentioned it would be impossible for a start as well as the not going towards midtown Manhattan. And that brings me to my next question, why West 8 St? You cannot terminate the over there because you would interfere with the trying to terminate. The already has issues terminating at Coney, sending the full time as well would just make it much more worse. Giving the all the R160A-1's from ENY would mean less trains for the , , and to use, especially for the because it is based out of ENY as well as running only R160A-1's. Bringing them to Coney Island as well wouldn't work because Coney Island Yard already has to deal with the , , , , and . The R32's are way too old to be running again, they are kept only for reserves. It's better to keep them on the and because they are outside most of the time anyways, having them on the would put more of a strain since they do not operate well in tunnels. Taking the R179's away from the and wouldn't do them good either since now you're basically reducing the and reliability by keeping them with trains that are decades old. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25442 Posted February 2, 2021 20 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: I can't say for sure. But the factory-new R188s were built after the R143s and R160s were and by the same company, so some modularity should have been built in. Not to mention they were able to refit the former R142As with the CBTC technology. They also replaced the R44s and R46s' side roll signs with digital destination signs in GOH. With that in mind, I can't imagine how replacing the R142/R142A digital signs with newer ones would be an insurmountable task. Besides, a few converted R188s did get side digital signs that look very similar to the R143/R160 models. There isn't a "plain old" train, although some PM rush hour put-ins at Broadway Junction that travel down to Broad Street are signed as and make all stops to Broad. The northbound runs express between Marcy and Myrtle at 2 PM. There was a big reason to move the to 6th Avenue - money. The State was broke in 2009-10, as a result of the sub-prime mortgage economic crisis. Believe it or not, the first proposed service cuts plan in 2009, called for something similar to what you suggested in your a) , except it would have retained the as it was and the would have terminated at Chambers on weekdays and remained the same at other times (shuttle between Metropolitan and Myrtle). As a former QBL rider who still occasionally rode it until last March, I can tell you QBL already did not have decent service pre-pandemic. Taking away the and leaving just the as the local in Queens is not going to go well. It's true that many people don't ride the full horseshoe route, but the same could be said for just about every subway route. And if we want to build reliance on the SAS, then we should increase Broadway service, rather than create a new merge at Lex-63rd between the F, M and Q. I used to ride the regularly on QBL from 2012-15. It seemed to handle rush hour on QBL pretty fine to me. Not much worse than the V and certainly better than the G. Terminating the at Whitehall will make it better. Then, either have a full time or a full time replace the in Brooklyn. We had a whole long discussion about this in 2019. If the , then run it to/from Broadway Junction. Run the peak express between Bway Jct and Marcy. Extend the to South Brooklyn to supplement the on weekdays. If the , then run it as the sole Astoria service and reroute the to 2nd Ave alongside the . But we can’t give everyone a one-seat ride the subway. Even if there are a lot of people Ubering from the UES/Yorkville to Williamsburg or the LES, the subway isn’t going to beat Uber by trying to be Uber. Definitely not during its highest ridership periods. There would to many merging delays, which will eventually lead to signal and switch problems. Truncating the at Whitehall is something I think all of us, if not most of us, would really like as this would allow for more reliability. If the were to be extended to South Brooklyn, I'd have it run along West End to Bay Parkway the old made because West End needs the extra service. This would also work better as this doesn't just run only in downtown, but towards midtown and to Astoria, people would maybe want to use this as a 1 seat ride if they wanted to. Although that would be an issue because the wouldn't help the east of Broadway Junction unless it's only extended to Jamaica Center for rush hour service and then truncates at Broadway Junction other times. I think the would be the sole train during weekdays, but weekends the runs to Astoria, but I highly doubt that would work well since the would be needing help and Astoria service would be reduced in a way. I would love to see how this plays out regardless though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25443 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Instead of reinventing the wheel why not keep it simple? from Continental to Whitehall. and to Astoria while sharing a fleet. QBL local has yard access and the Astoria lines have yard access at Coney Island. The would be the old . Problem solved. Why screw up the for any reason? My take. YMMV. Carry on. Edited February 2, 2021 by Trainmaster5 Additional thought 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25444 Posted February 2, 2021 20 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said: Well this thread I made in 2017 didn’t age too well. (Even though we’ve only just entered the 2nd month of 2021) I mean aleast some of them were done... Too bad they only renovated Bedford Ave on the CBTC is in place on QBL There is two trips in each directions Other than that... Its the same old NYC Subway What I didn't expect in 2020/2021 - No more ITS SHOWTIME! That is something I never thought would ever happen... not having them on the between Roosevelt and Queens Plaza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25445 Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said: Instead of reinventing the wheel why not keep it simple? from Continental to Whitehall. and to Astoria while sharing a fleet. QBL local has yard access and the Astoria lines have yard access at Coney Island. The would be the old . Problem solved. My take. YMMV. Carry on. Well, there's still that issue about Bay Ridge technically, if you planned on having the old route, the would lose that direct access. It would definitely solve a lot of problems the current has, but it doesn't solve all of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25446 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Vulturious said: Well, there's still that issue about Bay Ridge technically, if you planned on having the old route, the would lose that direct access. It would definitely solve a lot of problems the current has, but it doesn't solve all of them. fleet will be "swapped" with the at Astoria- Ditmars so they will eventually get to a yard. So each operator will presumably do a run on the then switch to a and do the return to Ditmars and switch back to the 40 minutes ago, Vulturious said: I'd have it run along West End to Bay Parkway the old made because West End needs the extra service. I think the only ran the old to Bay Parkway because they had no where else to terminate them. As for service wise, it was pretty useless in Brooklyn. I mean it did provide some additional 4th Avenue local service to help out the , that's about it. Back then people will wait for the even if an came first because is an express and goes directly into Midtown. Either that or they just get off at 36th St and get the . Basically close to no one except a few people who work downtown would take the into Manhattan. That route was the classic definition of a supplementary route Edited February 2, 2021 by Mtatransit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25447 Posted February 2, 2021 If the was to run to Bay Ridge via the and if the was cut back to Whitehall, the wouldn't have direct access to Coney, which would be a problem. Anyways, to the Astoria Lines. The 90 siemens that went to Jamaica for the Alstoms, are those only temporary? Because the wouldn't have much spares to run on the lines. With the R46's crapping out, who knows? There may be a shortage of cars. If you'd want the and both to end at 96th st, that'd be a great idea, because of course everyone would want the to become full time. One problem with that. COVID-19. There are not as many operators as before, so we'd have to wait until new operators to come in for that plan to even be thought of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25448 Posted February 2, 2021 45 minutes ago, Mtatransit said: fleet will be "swapped" with the at Astoria- Ditmars so they will eventually get to a yard. So each operator will presumably do a run on the then switch to a and do the return to Ditmars and switch back to the I think the only ran the old to Bay Parkway because they had no where else to terminate them. As for service wise, it was pretty useless in Brooklyn. I mean it did provide some additional 4th Avenue local service to help out the , that's about it. Back then people will wait for the even if an came first because is an express and goes directly into Midtown. Either that or they just get off at 36th St and get the . Basically close to no one except a few people who work downtown would take the into Manhattan. That route was the classic definition of a supplementary route There’s no reason for a crew to make a trip on the other line at all. Your second point about the old M is on the money. Carry on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25449 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vulturious said: Well, there's still that issue about Bay Ridge technically, if you planned on having the old route, the would lose that direct access. It would definitely solve a lot of problems the current has, but it doesn't solve all of them. The only complaints about the service usually have to do with the reliability south of 59th St down to the terminal at 95th St. I suspect the problem is caused by the QBL segment. Look back at archived news articles and such and you won’t see many, if any, complaints when the line ran to Astoria. I’m talking about pre-1967 and including service to Whitehall. Mtatransit explained the yard access question and I added my own take. Carry on. @Stormxx this post also applies to your idea. Edited February 2, 2021 by Trainmaster5 Additional information 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted February 2, 2021 Share #25450 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Mtatransit said: fleet will be "swapped" with the at Astoria- Ditmars so they will eventually get to a yard. So each operator will presumably do a run on the then switch to a and do the return to Ditmars and switch back to the I think the only ran the old to Bay Parkway because they had no where else to terminate them. As for service wise, it was pretty useless in Brooklyn. I mean it did provide some additional 4th Avenue local service to help out the , that's about it. Back then people will wait for the even if an came first because is an express and goes directly into Midtown. Either that or they just get off at 36th St and get the . Basically close to no one except a few people who work downtown would take the into Manhattan. That route was the classic definition of a supplementary route What about 9th Avenue? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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