SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[NY1635]

2 hours ago, Jova42R said:

I'd implement busways at all locations - if you zoom in you can see more detail.

Intermodal Centers in NYC requires the MTA to hire utility people and security to protect it from the homeless. It can be done though that requires the Mayor to enforce the law and build more homeless shelters.

[Maxwell179]

There’s a man standing and pacing on top of flushing train station 😔

Edited April 29, 2020 by Maxwell179

[trainfan22]

38 minutes ago, Maxwell179 said:

There’s a man standing and pacing on top of flushing train station 😔

I assume this is the Flushing Ave on the and lines? Woodhull is right next to that stop, maybe someone with mental illness got released from the hospital.

 

A couple months ago, I was eating at an restaurant near Woodhull and there was grown man in the restaurant crying like a baby and mumbling random things. I saw the tag on his arm seems like he recently got released from there. I still ordered my food and ate it in the restaurant despite that lol.

[biGC323232]

52 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

I assume this is the Flushing Ave on the and lines? Woodhull is right next to that stop, maybe someone with mental illness got released from the hospital.

 

A couple months ago, I was eating at an restaurant near Woodhull and there was grown man in the restaurant crying like a baby and mumbling random things. I saw the tag on his arm seems like he recently got released from there. I still ordered my food and ate it in the restaurant despite that lol.

Yeah that area filled with loonitics...on top of the station...WTH...lol...How he even get up there...

[mfs NJT459]

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2020 at 5:41 AM, Union Tpke said:

Now the cat is out of the bag, I can share a bit. That was the initial plan for the April pick, and was initially set for last December. This is the deinterlining plan I have hinted at. I didn't think it was still going on.

I was surprised to see this too. I realize I’m a couple days late here, but with my three-year old constantly wanting to watch Disney cartoons on my phone, I don’t have quite as much time to be on here as I used to. But when I stumbled upon @BreeddekalbL’s post, I thought this could be what you were talking about back in December. 

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 12:51 PM, Lance said:

Why would the F return to 53rd Street? The whole point of the current service pattern is to give 53rd Street both local and express service to Queens. Besides, what's gained here anyhow? Those switches will still be in use regardless, just to a different endpoint. Currently, F trains go between 63rd Street <> Queens Blvd express using the switches near 36 Street. If the F and M were to switch, it'd be almost the exact same thing, with the exception of the M going to the local tracks instead of the express ones.

Also, what serves 63rd Street on the off-hours when the M doesn't run? Sure, the F can run up there in its place, but then you have that situation where trains are running to via different lines depending on the day of the week, which is something the MTA likes to avoid unless otherwise impossible (see current weekend M service).

 

We would be moving the  /   merge from Queens Plaza to 36th St and getting rid of the  /  merge at 36th and the  /  merge at Queens Plaza - reducing three merges in that area down to one. I’m willing to give it a shot. For nights/weekends, the  would cover for the . It would be no different than the way they ran the  24/7 from 2002-04 during Stillwell Ave reconstruction. The  ran via the Montague Tunnel weekends and overnights to cover for the , which was cut back to a Brooklyn-only shuttle at that time. Maybe they can run the  on weekends too if sending the  through 63rd is not something the MTA wants. But then they'd have four QB services on weekends (which is also something the MTA doesn't like to have).

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2020 at 10:08 PM, Collin said:

I think the appeal is partial de-interlining of QB.  The express trains would no longer have the 36th Street merge.  However, they tried that back in 2001 when testing service patterns to use with the then new 63rd Street Connector.

 

The first test was as follows:

  Jamaica Center-QB EXP-53rd-8th LCL

  179th-QB EXP-53rd-6th LCL

  179th-QB LCL-Crosstown

  71st-QB LCL-60th-Bway LCL

  71st-QB LCL-63rd-6th LCL (signed as )

 

That didn't work, so the next test was:

  Jamaica Center-QB EXP-53rd-8th LCL

  179th-QB EXP-63rd-6th LCL

  Court Square-Crosstown

  71st-QB LCL-60th-Bway LCL

  71st-QB LCL-53rd-6th LCL

This became the actual service pattern.  

The dilemma was which service would get to stay on the more desirable 53rd Street corridor, and which one would be relegated to the less desirable 63rd Street corridor.  I think the decision was to send the  there so that local station customers could get a one seat ride to 53rd which would better balance out the loading between local and express.  The problem with this is it created multiple merges.  The new  service had to share track with the , then the , and finally the .  I think the benefit of having a local service go via 53rd might not be all that great.  The main benefit of 53rd as opposed to 63rd is that there's a transfer to Lexington.  The other local service, the  already provides access to Lex, and it's better because it goes to 59th which offers both local and express service as opposed to just local.

As for making the switch now, I'd say try it for some amount of time.  The partial de-interlining of the express services could allow for 33+ tph with CBTC that might not be possible otherwise.  If it works, make it permanent, and if it doesn't work, then switch back to the old service pattern.  It should be noted that the  will still have to run via 63rd late nights and weekends because of the  not running.

They were really hoping back in 2001 that riders would stay on the  (now  ) local for a less crowded and not that much slower ride to Midtown. It just didn’t work. And maybe without all the crazy merging in the area, the  can also run a bit more reliably as it would only have the one merge with the  at 36th Street. It won't be merging with any trains at Queens Plaza as it does now and in the past when the  ran there. Merging and train frequency have always been the 's banes of its existence. This partially solves one of those banes. Train frequency is another story, but that will require better dispatching at 71st or an  route with even fewer merges. But this is a good start.

As for the , what I've always wondered is why it isn't a more popular service, given its direct transfer to both express and local at Lexington. I used it when I lived in Forest Hills from 2012-15. That is, whenever it came. If the  came to 67th Avenue first, I took it and transferred to the  either at Lex-53rd or Broadway-Lafayette. Getting a crush-loaded  was a rare occurrence. You would think with a direct transfer to the  and , the  would be much more popular.

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 9:47 AM, shiznit1987 said:

*Starts jumping giddly*

Does this mean we could have the  back!? YAY!!

No, the first trial just proved that they couldn’t run the ,  and  (which became the  ) simultaneously on the local, especially with the  continuing past 71st. That would certainly hold true today. Putting the  back there would only preserve an  merge at Queens Plaza, which would be no better than the current merge with the .

Edited April 29, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue
Clarifying my response

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

We would be moving the  /   merge from Queens Plaza to 36th St and getting rid of the  /  merge at 36th and the  /  merge at Queens Plaza - reducing three merges in that area down to one. I’m willing to give it a shot. For nights/weekends, the  would cover for the .

So I'm assuming under this plan the would run fully local in Queens at this time?

[RedLine]

No

[Lawrence St]

57 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

No, the first trial just proved that they couldn’t run the ,  and  (which became the  ) simultaneously on the local, especially with the  continuing past 71st. That would certainly hold true today. Putting the  back there would only preserve an  merge at Queens Plaza, which would be no better than the current merge with the .

But when the isn't running why can't the return to QBL?

[Lex]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

But when the isn't running why can't the return to QBL?

Why bother? Much of no one's interested in the  over there, and to sour the deal, it hasn't even been dispatched from Jamaica in years. At most, make the 's weekday route a 24-hour one, keep the  as an overnight local and the  as a 24-hour express (on its old route in this scenario), and call it a day.

[Collin]

They stopped doing that with the 2010 budget cuts.  I think it should be brought back because getting to the  from a local station when the  isn't running, and the  is running express requires taking the  to Roosevelt or Queens Plaza, transferring to the  and taking it to Court Square, and then transferring to the .  With the  going to 63rd, that double transfer scenario will still be in place.  That's why I initially suggested that the  should run on QB again.  

[MysteriousBtrain]

10 minutes ago, Lex said:

Why bother? Much of no one's interested in the  over there, and to sour the deal, it hasn't even been dispatched from Jamaica in years. At most, make the 's weekday route a 24-hour one, keep the  as an overnight local and the  as a 24-hour express (on its old route in this scenario), and call it a day.

Potentially in a more "permanent" pattern if the was to be extended to Brooklyn (either Bay Ridge or somewhere along west end) the would likely get the axe with weekday service with the being fully local on weekends. In the to Bay Ridge scenario it would replicate the or go along west end and in the to west end weekend service between Whitehall St and Bay ridge with the replacing the during G.O.s. I feel the to Bay Ridge is a more plausible plan.

 

Also do not mention the "Yard access" because you all act like because the moved to Jamaica all services must have direct access to a yard. In a world where the MTA wants to cut as much as possible this is definitely possible. Wanna continue to make that argument look at the . 

[MHV9218]

M to 96th, E via 53rd, F via 63rd, G to Forest-Hills. Everybody wins!

[Lex]

43 minutes ago, Collin said:

They stopped doing that with the 2010 budget cuts.  I think it should be brought back because getting to the  from a local station when the  isn't running, and the  is running express requires taking the  to Roosevelt or Queens Plaza, transferring to the  and taking it to Court Square, and then transferring to the .  With the  going to 63rd, that double transfer scenario will still be in place.  That's why I initially suggested that the  should run on QB again.  

That requires interest in order to not be a waste. The locals already struggle with that in Queens, but they, like the expresses, go to Manhattan. The  bypassing Manhattan makes it even less attractive than the old .

[Lawrence St]

40 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

M to 96th, E via 53rd, F via 63rd, G to Forest-Hills. Everybody wins!

Not the or the in that case when you have the merging onto both services.

[Maxwell179]

4 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I assume this is the Flushing Ave on the and lines? Woodhull is right next to that stop, maybe someone with mental illness got released from the hospital.

 

A couple months ago, I was eating at an restaurant near Woodhull and there was grown man in the restaurant crying like a baby and mumbling random things. I saw the tag on his arm seems like he recently got released from there. I still ordered my food and ate it in the restaurant despite that lol.

Yeah , I was seeing it all , I live in that area 

[Collin]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Potentially in a more "permanent" pattern if the was to be extended to Brooklyn (either Bay Ridge or somewhere along west end) the would likely get the axe with weekday service with the being fully local on weekends. In the to Bay Ridge scenario it would replicate the or go along west end and in the to west end weekend service between Whitehall St and Bay ridge with the replacing the during G.O.s. I feel the to Bay Ridge is a more plausible plan.

 

Also do not mention the "Yard access" because you all act like because the moved to Jamaica all services must have direct access to a yard. In a world where the MTA wants to cut as much as possible this is definitely possible. Wanna continue to make that argument look at the . 

Sending any QB local train past Forest Hills is a non-starter and has been discussed ad nauseum before.  The  can easily switch between 63rd and 53rd when the  isn't running, just like how the  runs via Montague when the  isn't running.

Another thing I think might make the  more reliable is if it were cut back to Whitehall while the  took over Bay Ridge.  With a shorter route, there's less that can go wrong.  I could see this happening as part of a Broadway de-interlining plan that would send the  to 96th Street at all times.  The problem with that idea is I don't know how many trains Whitehall can reasonably turn, though some trains could just be extended to Bay Ridge or somewhere else in Brooklyn.

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

M to 96th, E via 53rd, F via 63rd, G to Forest-Hills. Everybody wins!

Nah Nah Nah

The win-win here would be the following: 

• Reform the fumigating process at Forest Hills. Doing this would increase the terminal capacity up from 20 TPH. 
• Queens Blvd CBTC (which seems to be on the horizon) 
• Full time  Service via 63 rd. That’s 8 TPH right there, if anything, I’d argue that there’s a bit more space on 6th Avenue Local to add a few local ’s. These local  trains could run express along Culver and would follow the same route as normal  trains. 
•  via 53rd. Both 15 TPH each. 18 ’s, 12 ’s. On 63rd, it would be 8 ’s, 7 ‘s. 60th can continue with 6-10 ‘s. 
• Extend local service during the peak hours so that commute times for passengers taking the bus to the  can be reduced. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by LaGuardia Link N Tra

[MHV9218]

36 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Not the or the in that case when you have the merging onto both services.

The and  will merge repeatedly under any plan, current or imagined, and I think the headways on the SAS are wide-enough to support merging efficiently. 

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

The and  will merge repeatedly under any plan, current or imagined, and I think the headways on the SAS are wide-enough to support merging efficiently. 

Unless you send the via 63rd St.

[Jacob]

8 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

There’s a man standing and pacing on top of flushing train station 😔

Mental illness these days...

[Yankees4life]

6 hours ago, mfs NJT459 said:

 

I guess they were trying to kill themselves or hunt down some weed 😂🤣🤦‍♂️

[bobtehpanda]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:19 PM, Collin said:

Other cities don't have the local/express divide to worry about.  All trains stop at every station.  For the bus routes, they need to be evaluated case by case.  I'm sure some routes get a lot of riders who are just transferring to the subway and that's it.  Other routes might get more of a mix of riders in terms of their final destination.  Not everyone is going to Manhattan.

One thing I'd like to see is more locations where buses can stop within subway fare control.  I think the only place it currently happens in NYC is Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway.  At Harvard Square stop in Boston, the buses actually go underground to stop within the station.  I'm not sure the cost or feasibility of doing something like that in Jamaica, Flushing, or any other large bus-subway hubs.

 

On 4/28/2020 at 1:09 AM, B35 via Church said:

In a barbie world, sure.... I mean while I'm generally for off-street bus terminals, I don't think it's worth subterraneously digging up earth for intermodal terminals here... Leave the excavating for the benefit of expanding the subway network.

 

There's at least one place where you could do it; Kew Gardens-Union Tpke could have subway access from the Union Turnpike part of the interchange.

While we can't do it now, it's definitely something worth exploring for a future subway extension. The TTC does this extensively in Toronto on newer extensions.

[Lex]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

There's at least one place where you could do it; Kew Gardens-Union Tpke could have subway access from the Union Turnpike part of the interchange.

And where, exactly, is the space for this?

[bobtehpanda]

7 minutes ago, Lex said:

And where, exactly, is the space for this?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7142973,-73.8309956,3a,75y,24.44h,89.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVEwnpX0BoIJC65m35y4vmw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DVEwnpX0BoIJC65m35y4vmw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D279.9899%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

There are guardrails and a glass cube wall that lead straight into the mezzanine.