Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6151 Posted July 6, 2018 1 minute ago, RR503 said: 2. Look, I'd love to keep upstate flourishing. The issue I draw -- and indeed the reason I got involved in this argument -- was with our diagnosis of its issues and with our suggested treatment. We are losing tens of millions of tax dollars (if not more) on contracts every year because we are keeping upstate on industrial welfare. I think instead of that, we should be directing monies towards reinvention -- better transport to NY/BOS, better educational facilities, etc. Penalizing downstate's ability to function doesn't seem just. 3. Totally, but you must understand that the issues of rezoning and replacement are new phenomena. We would not have had so many loft conversions if we hadn't had so much vacant industrial space -- a situation precipitated largely by the container. Essentially, Bombardier forgot how to do quality control. The company has lately been prioritizing their aviation division (specificially, the C series) above all else, and that focus is showing through in production. First, there were weld issues, and then design issues, and then delivered cars with 200+ items that needed changing/repair. 2. Well the other option is to let them die off and have no tax base up there and then we can pay for upstate and down state. It's not like something is going to change over night if that Made in NY stipulation went away. We both know that. I personally don't see a short-term solution to this problem, especially given the fact of how many people are leaving that region, even with said stipulation in place because of a lack of jobs. 3. They are, but they were precipitated in part by the Bloomberg administration and their desire to get rid of manufacturing to allow for the rezoning of various neighborhoods which benefited developers who then found ways to "thank" the City. Same thing going on with the de Blasio administration... As for Bombardier, I find the whole thing troubling. Those cars don't look that much different from the other cars that have been coming online. This is something that the Made in NY stipulation in my mind doesn't resolve, and simply an example of a company that has lost its way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgorithmOfTruth Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6152 Posted July 6, 2018 As per the specifications of the R179 design, all units measure 60 1/5 feet. Will all future subway car orders be 60 feet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subwaycommuter1983 Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6153 Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said: While all of you are talking about manufacturing/jobs, I'm just gonna go ahead and post yet another myriad update regarding the R179s... Status of all R179s: 3010-3019: *still* at Bombardier for modifications 3050-3057: In service on the 3058-3065: In service on the 3066-3069: In service on the 3074-3077: Recently arrived, testing at the Rockaways 3078-3081: In service on the 3082-3085: In service on the 3086-3089: In service on the 3090-3093: In service on the 3094-3097: In service on the 3098-3101: In service on the 3102-3105: In service on the 3106-3109: In service on the 3110-3113: In service on the 3114-3117: In service on the 3118-3121: In service on the 3122-3125: Burn-ins on the 3126-3129: Testing in the Rockaways 3134-3137: Burn-ins on the Things to note: -3010-3019 could be back in the city by August/September. -The with the R32s/R42s will stick around until fall. -3074-3077 arrived about two weeks ago. -IDK if any new cars have been delivered, I need someone to verify if this is the case. -The will soon have over nine R179s in-service. -We're almost halfway through the delivery of the four-car sets! Thanks for the update. For the fall we can expect that: The will be completely NTT. The will finally start receiving 10 car r179's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6154 Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said: Don't know if anybody's posted this yet, but on a related topic: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/07/03/most-new-ttc-streetcars-to-be-shipped-to-quebec-to-fix-welding-defect-bombardier-says.html Man they can't catch a break.. What's going on up there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subwaycommuter1983 Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6155 Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: Don't know if anybody's posted this yet, but on a related topic: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/07/03/most-new-ttc-streetcars-to-be-shipped-to-quebec-to-fix-welding-defect-bombardier-says.html I wonder if those were the issues that affected the r142's. But this is one of the main culprits of the delays in the r179's. It's a good thing that these issues were caught before entering service and I'm glad that the MTA chose Kawasaki for the r211's. It's no question that the best subway cars built for the MTA were made from Kawasaki. Edited July 6, 2018 by subwaycommuter1983 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgorithmOfTruth Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6156 Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said: I wonder if those were the issues that affected the r142's. But this is one of the main culprits of the delays in the r179's. It's a good thing that these issues were caught before entering service and I'm glad that the MTA chose Kawasaki for the r211's. It's no question that the best subway cars built for the MTA were made from Kawasaki. I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Take a good look at the R143s. They look like terrible. Edited July 6, 2018 by AlgorithmOfTruth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6157 Posted July 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Coney Island Av said: While all of you are talking about manufacturing/jobs, I'm just gonna go ahead and post yet another myriad update regarding the R179s... Status of all R179s: 3010-3019: *still* at Bombardier for modifications 3050-3057: In service on the 3058-3065: In service on the 3066-3069: In service on the 3074-3077: Recently arrived, testing at the Rockaways 3078-3081: In service on the 3082-3085: In service on the 3086-3089: In service on the 3090-3093: In service on the 3094-3097: In service on the 3098-3101: In service on the 3102-3105: In service on the 3106-3109: In service on the 3110-3113: In service on the 3114-3117: In service on the 3118-3121: In service on the 3122-3125: Burn-ins on the 3126-3129: Testing in the Rockaways 3134-3137: Burn-ins on the Things to note: -3010-3019 could be back in the city by August/September. -The with the R32s/R42s will stick around until fall. -3074-3077 arrived about two weeks ago. -IDK if any new cars have been delivered, I need someone to verify if this is the case. -The will soon have over nine R179s in-service. -We're almost halfway through the delivery of the four-car sets! If i've done my math correctly, we'll have 196 cars in 4 car sets and 120 cars in 10 car sets, therefore 3242-3245 should be the last 4 car and 3246-3250 should be the first 5 car and 3148 would be the exact halfway point for the 4 car units... 4 car (3050-3245) [196] 5 car (3010-3049; 3246-3315) [120] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted July 6, 2018 Share #6158 Posted July 6, 2018 2 hours ago, RailRunRob said: Man they can't catch a break.. What's going on up there? They sure do get a lot of second and third chances though. 28 minutes ago, Around the Horn said: If i've done my math correctly, we'll have 196 cars in 4 car sets and 120 cars in 10 car sets, therefore 3242-3245 should be the last 4 car and 3246-3250 should be the first 5 car and 3148 would be the exact halfway point for the 4 car units... 4 car (3050-3245) [196] 5 car (3010-3049; 3246-3315) [120] Those numbers work for me. I’m glad we were able to get 16 more cars in the order. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subwaycommuter1983 Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6159 Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: They sure do get a lot of second and third chances though. Those numbers work for me. I’m glad we were able to get 16 more cars in the order. 16 cars are not enough considering all the delays and ongoing issues, especially with the 5 car sets. Bombardier should have given the MTA 50 cars in addition to the 16. Those 50 cars would have equal to 5 more 10 car trains for the . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6160 Posted July 7, 2018 11 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said: 16 cars are not enough considering all the delays and ongoing issues, especially with the 5 car sets. Bombardier should have given the MTA 50 cars in addition to the 16. Those 50 cars would have equal to 5 more 10 car trains for the . They should have also made an additional 4-car set to have a nice round 200 cars for the 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosciusko Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6161 Posted July 7, 2018 17 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said: I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Take a good look at the R143s. They look like terrible. They're a bit dirty but they are no doubt among the most reliable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6162 Posted July 7, 2018 15 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said: 16 cars are not enough considering all the delays and ongoing issues, especially with the 5 car sets. Bombardier should have given the MTA 50 cars in addition to the 16. Those 50 cars would have equal to 5 more 10 car trains for the . That's not how that works... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6163 Posted July 7, 2018 19 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said: I wouldn't be so quick to say that. Take a good look at the R143s. They look like terrible. That has nothing to do with build quality, no transit vehicle in NYC stays looking pretty for long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6164 Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Around the Horn said: That's not how that works... Exactly! Thankfully we got the extra cars that we did and now have enough for 12 ten-car trains instead of just four. We do need more new ten-car trains. 5 hours ago, kosciusko said: They're a bit dirty but they are no doubt among the most reliable. I read in a Daily News article that the R143s’ reliability has dropped significantly over the last few years, more so than other cars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemorie Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6165 Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: We do need more new ten-car trains. Do or don't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subwaycommuter1983 Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6166 Posted July 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jemorie said: Do or don't? Do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgorithmOfTruth Posted July 7, 2018 Share #6167 Posted July 7, 2018 5 hours ago, trainfan22 said: That has nothing to do with build quality, no transit vehicle in NYC stays looking pretty for long. This has to do with the necessary custodial upkeep required to maintain presentable rolling stock. Consider the R46s on the out of Pitkin Yard versus the R46s on the out of Jamaica Yard. Cleaner trains are the result of being tended to more responsibly, mechanically and aesthetically, thus leading to a longer service life. I have no doubt the R46s used for the out of JY will outlast the R46s used for the out of PY. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R68OnBroadway Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6168 Posted July 8, 2018 2 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said: This has to do with the necessary custodial upkeep required to maintain presentable rolling stock. Consider the R46s on the out of Pitkin Yard versus the R46s on the out of Jamaica Yard. Cleaner trains are the result of being tended to more responsibly, mechanically and aesthetically, thus leading to a longer service life. I have no doubt the R46s used for the out of JY will outlast the R46s used for the out of PY. Same goes for the 62As from 240th being better than Westchester and the 32s from ENY being better than the 207th ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6169 Posted July 8, 2018 7 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said: Exactly! Thankfully we got the extra cars that we did and now have enough for 12 ten-car trains instead of just four. We do need more new ten-car trains. I read in a Daily News article that the R143s’ reliability has dropped significantly over the last few years, more so than other cars The addition of CBTC equipment negatively affects MDBF numbers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lennon Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6170 Posted July 8, 2018 Although the R-62A has improved, the 62 beat it. I am guessing they are due for a SMS. As far as the NTT's go the R-142 is still smoking the R142A # of Cars Jan '18 Jan '17 % Diff Subdivision A 2,895 122,105 140,328 -13.0% Subdivision B 3,523 98,111 117,851 -16.7% Systemwide 6,418 106,900 126,292 -15.4% Car Class # of Cars Jan '18 Jan '17 % Diff R32 222 33,108 33,331 -0.7% R42 50 36,635 43,444 -15.7% R46 752 71,633 73,642 -2.7% R62 315 195,437 205,635 -5.0% R62A 824 98,796 85,925 +15.0% R68 425 100,291 114,085 -12.1% R68A 200 95,307 102,130 -6.7% R142 1,030 166,269 145,002 +14.7% R142A 220 55,571 49,145 +13.1% R143 212 93,179 54,814 +70.0% R160 1,662 247,157 242,160 +2.1% R188 - New 126 486,053 478,981 +1.5% R188 - Conversion 380 154,591 193,909 -20.3% Subdivision A 2,895 126,733 114,939 +10.3% Subdivision B 3,523 114,774 111,652 +2.8% Fleet 6,418 119,469 113,022 +5.7% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6171 Posted July 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Fan Railer said: The addition of CBTC equipment negatively affects MDBF numbers. That is what I have been telling people. Expect the same for the R188s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6172 Posted July 8, 2018 Then I guess we’ll see how the cars formerly known as R142As do after a few years of running with CBTC equipment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U-BahnNYC Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6173 Posted July 8, 2018 17 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said: This has to do with the necessary custodial upkeep required to maintain presentable rolling stock. Consider the R46s on the out of Pitkin Yard versus the R46s on the out of Jamaica Yard. Cleaner trains are the result of being tended to more responsibly, mechanically and aesthetically, thus leading to a longer service life. I have no doubt the R46s used for the out of JY will outlast the R46s used for the out of PY. I've noticed that too, even though the R46s on the from JY are older than the ones at PY (the latter has all the 6000-numbered cars). Also, it would appear the Coney Island based R160s on the are the newest because they are so clean and well maintained, even though they are in fact the older R160s. Lucky Broadway riders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6174 Posted July 8, 2018 42s have a higher MDBF than the 32s😃 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 8, 2018 Share #6175 Posted July 8, 2018 40 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said: I've noticed that too, even though the R46s on the from JY are older than the ones at PY (the latter has all the 6000-numbered cars). The R46s were not renumbered in chronological order... For example, 501 (which was a pilot car) is now 6169 at Pitkin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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