MHV9218

36 minutes ago, SevenEleven said:

These aren't loans. It's extra service being provided with Staten Island operators. Same with the buses from College Point that were up there yesterday. 

Weird-ass fleet in the Bronx rn, damn. Reminds me of when Yukon covered Tuskegee for a weekday snowstorm a few years back. They send you up there?

3 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Will the MTA ever change the color of the wheels? With the current livery of the buses, the white wheels look out of place

Keep thinking that too. I doubt it, since white is cheap, but yeah they don't fit and they needlessly show dirt without even matching. 

Some of those R46s have seriously old LCD programming. 71st-Continental for the Forest Hills trains has to be at least 15 years old, possibly original to GOH.

2 hours ago, RailBus63 said:

Just my 2 cents, but I do not expect to see any R32 return to regular service.  First, since it will be 12 to 18 months before we have a coronavirus vaccine available, I don't believe it would be fair to train crews to bring back a car class that puts C/R's in direct contact with passengers multiple times per trip.  Second, the MTA is also facing a severe fiscal crisis from the pandemic, so I doubt they will have the funding to bring back 100 percent of the service that was cut, nor do I expect ridership to return to February 2020 levels for a long time.  Hopefully we will get a formal R32 farewell run at some point in the future.

Again, just my 2 cents. 

The question is also how much the R211 replacement timetable is slowed down. If the R211s arrive before we've returned to full service (or at least a level of service that requires the 32s), then you're right, it's a harder argument. If the R211s are as slowed down as everything else, the MTA may face a service reality that requires the 32s. It's very possible that the regular use of the 32s is gone forever, but I think it's quite possible they return on a put-in, additional service basis later on. 

13 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

rts's were 10 feet 6 inches to be exact. hybrids are 11 feet 5 inches with the roof component. 

Whoops, I was thinking of the signs on 72nd when I wrote that.

The MTA numbers I had were 10ft O5/RTS, 11 ft D60HF, 11'5 MCI cruiser...that's probably rounded right?

16 minutes ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

And the fatass RTSs could? Also XD40s are the same height as Orions

'Fatass' RTSes were the most compact buses in the MTA fleet, only 9' tall.

24 minutes ago, Dj Hammers said:

This is a very important point. The cars are not retired per se, just held OOS. I've edited the title and description to make that distinction more clear.

It is being said that the cars may return to service once the COVID-19 pandemic is over.

Okay, I really appreciate your updates a lot here. I thought you wrote on subchat they were retired, but this seems more like it. Everybody took that and ran with it. This is the point I've been trying to stress with everybody, especially with everyone so antsy and jumpy about the prospect of retirement. Nothing definitive is happening until service and equipment needs are re-established, whenever that may be, and nothing is getting scrapped at the current moment. For the record, even the officially-retired R42s are sitting in the yard without being stripped yet––and that's a mothballed fleet!

Some day, the MTA is going to have to restore full service, and the R211s are unlikely to have arrived by that point. I fully believe that all the 32s are on the Hold list right now, but I will be very, very suspicious of any word that they have been permanently retired from service before fleet demands eventually increase in the coming months. Scrapping is on indefinite hold during this mess anyway, so it's not like they're going anywhere. 

1 hour ago, Fuseguy is Cool said:

Hope everyone's staying safe but an  train got taken out of service this morning due to door problems. Hope we aren't doing back to January again...... 

C/Rs have been complaining about indication issues persisting. I'm not totally confident that problem was completely fixed. At least there will be no issue in terms of rolling stock flexibility if we see cars removed. Bombardier, interestingly, is still at work up in Plattsburgh. Cuomo designated them an 'essential business.'

Sharing a little research.

Going off some photos, it looks like black-on-white Unimark signs showed up on the 8th Avenue Line from Chambers through at least 81st, possibly a little higher beginning in the spring of 1969. Express stations got the new signs and at least the majority of local stations too. That lines up with the Unimark contract for design in 1966-1968 slowly being implemented. These signs were made properly, with what I believe was photographic enlargement of the lettering instead of the hand stenciling that showed up on a lot of the other signs during that era. [Either that, or really professional stenciling.] The more northern stations didn't get updated until the mid-1970s, when some of them received white-on-black signs with a white square for bullet (the transition style) turned up for the first time. Those were hand stenciled signs and they weren't modular like the Vignelli signs, but the current form of a single metal sign with a steel support riveted inside. Basically of these lasted until around 1988-1990 when the last of the original overhead signs, many panels replaced and the others covered in stickers for service changes, were finally replaced. Some stations received well-made porcelain overhead signs with 10" bullets around that time, but soon the cheaper sheet metal signs with small bullets that we know today took their place. A lot of stations still have the 1988ish porcelain signs installed, with sheet metal signs hanging over them. One became visible while signs were being replaced 59th St. not long ago, but it was quickly covered up. Another set of porcelain signs with standard Helvetica, not Medium, turned up and a number of stations during the mid-90s. Many of those are still up, all the way out to the Rockaways. That generation marked the end of porcelain overhead signs in the subway. All the other 8th Ave signs are late-90s and 2000s-2010s sheet metal.

In terms of pillar signs, nearly every station kept its original 1932 porcelain signs until the 1980s, some later. Most stations received number-only white-on-black enamel signs that read '72, 81' etc. around 1982 or 1983. Some didn't – Chambers kept original signs until the early 1990s. Those signs were first replaced with larger enamel signs that included the word 'Street' in the mid-90s at some stations, and in the 2000s with non-enamel signs of the same variety (and the correct Helvetica weight). The last of the 1982-1983 signs were removed from 135th and 72nd over the past few years. Some of the mid-90s signs are now being replaced with cheap, poorly-designed sheet metal signs, like at West 4th and Chambers.

Nothing predicted has happened for any of the reasons predicted even remotely in the order stated. So, no.

31 minutes ago, VIP said:

More than half those people don’t look like First responders or “Essential” employees. Plus the trains are small and running on 20-30 minute headways as opposed to the normal 6-12 minute headways. 

Thing is, given that anybody working a grocery store, liquor store, plumber, home health aide, whathaveyou counts as essential, lot of people still going in and out to work.

2 hours ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

When? Does anyone have evidence?

2009 or so. There are a number of news stories about it. Failed.

10 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Would you happen to know if this is also true for R160s and R179s?

Given that the MTA did test 11-car R160 sets for service, my guess is yes. 

Yeah, but as I've been saying (I did predict the R211 delay), this mess just slows down the whole clock, and at some point (long time from now) service will have be restored, and the MTA will need full capacity, which it won't be able to achieve if the 32s are gone before the 211s arrive.

That's fascinating! The sheer number of different consist lengths over the course of one day! Have to wonder if it was more work switching and breaking consists than it was money saved by running fewer cars...

1 minute ago, Deucey said:

So there never was a time where  operated like BART or WMATA where there could be 10, 6, and 8 car trains showing up in succession, or overnights with 6 car trains to save money?

Oh there definitely was a time with different length consists based on the time of day, but--and others will know this better than I do--I think that was mainly a practice that lasted into the 70s or so. I know the  was running half-length overnight through the 70s, probably the same on a number of other lines. And even more extreme would have been the BMT running different length consists for midday, rush hour, and overnight way back in the early days. The yellow signs from the 80s though are mainly about boarding, in terms of safety on the platform.

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

So occasionally - like at Astor Place, you see yellow signs saying something like “Off-Peak trains stop here”.

After platform lengthening finished, were train lengths not always 10 cars (or 8 for 75 footers) - excluding shuttles and the 9 car  train? And at that sign, what stopped there - the operators cab, the conductor’s cab, or was that where the last car of the train platformed?

By the way, those Astor signs have been covered up completely, and a lot of stations are having those signs removed. I forget the exact article, but there's a clipping about the year those signs first showed up. I believe they were installed from 1982-1987. Technically, the distinction is partly in the phrasing. A lot of those signs, like the one at Astor, said "Off Hours Boarding Area," since by the time they were installed it wasn't always about shorter trains, but more about keeping a well-lit section of the station within view of the token clerk. Then you had a separate variety (which, by the font, are probably newer, from 1988 or so) that said "During off-hours trains stop here." That was for shorter overnight consists, but I think that was a lot less common. Good question on which part of the train lined up.

1 hour ago, shiznit1987 said:

The lack of police presence/ridership is starting to be felt: last night on the way home the  pulls into 52nd st and the Flushing-bound side is b.o.m.b.e.d with graff. Like cicra 1982 style. People can scream "broken windows/guiliani lover" but I bet dollars to donuts this plays into what happened at 110st  the other day. No cops, No riders, No rules. 

I heard about the 52nd St. hit. I'd be curious to see, except I'm not getting on a train for no good reason. I do think that a version of this is gonna happen – there's nobody out there.

19 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Just wondering: Was the Flushing  line first 10-cars per train? When did 11 cars start to occur?

10-cars until the '64 World's Fair with the arrival of the 33WFs and the 36WFs. I'm not sure how many years it took for the transition–it's possible the R15s and briefly R17s/R29s in use were combined with singles, or that the switch only began once the full fleet was in place.

Gonna reiterate, my ass is not going out there, but pretty unusual seeing a to New Lots with R62A service. We've had 62s on the , 62s and 62As on the , but I don't think there've been 62As on the  since Livonia had their fleet. Shame the rollsigns have been mostly replaced with the new ones, cause otherwise you'd have had a hard time telling things apart from the 90s/00s, especially since New Lots looks almost exactly as it did in 1985.

^ One thing about the firefighters, their name probably isn't coming up for a reason...not sure if everybody followed the photo incident but a lot of people in RTO are pretty angry with the department right now and I for one don't blame them. Very inappropriate, very juvenile, very disrespectful. 

I always think about this as the difference in how you drive for work and how you drive for yourself. I like to drive fast on my own, probably faster than I should sometimes, did some autocross, enjoy an empty highway. But when I'm driving for work (no CDL, so only small box trucks and cargo vans) it's a different pace entirely. You can try all the honking in the world behind me, I'm not changing my pace, I'm not blocking the box, I'm not taking chances. I don't take needless risks, I don't race yellow lights, I go by the book, I take the middle lane and I stick with it. Just a different mentality when it's a job versus something during your free time, you treat it differently. If I'm in my car, I probably gave myself an hour to get somewhere and I'm gonna get there in that time, and I'll hurry a little if I'm late. If it's work, I'm working the day regardless, I'll get it down in the time it takes, as close to the schedule the boss gives me.

44 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

I removed this comment. - Deucey

Why should he watch that? He's completely correct, and more people should have listened to his post.

2 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

As I understand there were three employees on hand.  One was the Train Operator at the north end of the train who was found on the roadbed.  The second was the Conductor who faithfully evacuated the passengers as the professional he or she was.  Third was the 110 Street station agent, who was misidentified as the media as a "second Conductor."  For what that means, the T/O was also showed as "Motorman" or just simply a "Conductor" (generic definition) in other accounts.

As a T/O, the fact that he was able to skillfully bring the train into the 110 Street station was superhumanly of its own.  It takes  and  five to seven minutes NB to navigate that deep tunnel under the NW corner of Central Park between 96 and 110 Street.  To operate a burning train the T/O had to successfully overcome several curves and time signals, then push the train's power back up, then watch the next speed timers entering the station at 10 mph or a little less on the sharp turn.  Again, all of that would have had to be done while not trying to choke all the while.  The T/O somehow had the will to get all the way to 110 as the only first place that emergency service would have made the burning train.  To stop short under the park could have been a total loss, even if power were to be cut off whereas the interior was actively burning and smoke continue no matter what.

The thick smoke must have been incredible.

The station agent would have been the first eyes to see the fire itself as it came around the turn entering the station.  I would surmise there was quite a smell in advance then thick smoke ahead of the train itself.

That's my own 2 cents FWIW.

Exactly what I've been thinking, if the account that the T/O called in a loud noise earlier and/or struck something on the roadbed are correct, it sounds as though this may have been a positively heroic action to the get the train into the station. The fact that the poor man was found in the track bed suggests smoke inhalation or exhaustion, since you'd imagine the natural course of action would to run away from the flames towards an emergency exit. Given that he was found so close, it does suggest that he may have started to do that, after heroically doing everything possible to get the train's passengers into the station. Again, just my assumption based on the details but it does start to sound like some truly, profoundly heroic stuff. Such a terrible story in every way and my heart just goes out to his family and loved ones. 

Yeah c'mon guys this is appalling. Who gives a shit about the equipment? And no, this is not because somebody didn't like the rolling stock used. I know there's a lot of mental illness in the transit community, and we don't need to yell at those people for their responses to this, but the rest of you guys gotta get it together on this. A man is dead. And this looks a whole lot like arson.

15 hours ago, VIP said:

The  line seems like its 80 percent new tech with the new modified schedule amidst this Coronavirus outbreak and less and less crews coming to work. No R32’s in service for the foreseeable future by the way.  

This makes sense given the diminished fleet requirements and the safety issue with C/Rs going between cars. Now, what I would expect is that these cars are simply held in storage for the next weeks/months, especially since the R211 order is bound to be delayed by the shutdown. But the MTA has done dumb things before, so we'll see if they scrap any of the sets before replacements have formally arrived.

Lot of interesting new layovers showing up since all the buses are running so hot. I won't name all the spots since I'm not so sure dispatchers are in favor of it, but I'm seeing a few places near the end of the line where B/Os are pulling over and shutting off their engines, then restarting and heading to the terminals.