MHV9218

On 1/16/2021 at 11:50 AM, bobtehpanda said:

Not only is this only being funded by PANYNJ, the way that this is probably being financed (fees on airline tickets) is, by federal law, only allowed to be used on airport-specific projects.

This is the primary reason why, despite the fact that it might be a good idea for ridership in general, there are no stops between Federal Circle and Jamaica.

9 hours ago, Lex said:

If someone thought to make the argument that any plan with intermediate stops would merely have the side benefit of improving general travel in the process (including the potential to open up job opportunities at the airport), only to be laughed at, or if no one's attempted to make said argument in fear of such, then as far as I'm concerned, both the funding structure and the law surrounding said structure are pure bullshit that reinforce each other. The same applies if we're talking about obtaining funding exclusively for the portion on airport grounds.

Yeah, something needs to be done about MTA costs, but that only does so much.

Yeah, my question with this has always been, how wide is the 'airport-specific' benefit? Cause what Lex is saying is perfectly plausible to me, and you have to figure something like the JFK Express or other direct-to-airport services combined a direct benefit to the airport and its passengers with a general service system-wide. Arguably, you could even claim a subway extension to the airport is 'airport-specific' if it massively increased traffic to the airport. I don't really understand why the law would require a distinct modal form (i.e., sky-tram rather than subway) just to distinguish the new service from other available options. But I don't know really know how narrow the federal language is.

My guy.

Here's how this went. This thread started, all of us were like 'damn what happened.'

You came in and told everybody to stop wondering, for no good reason.

I posted from Channel 7 to update people. Never said it was last the word. Never said I worked at the MTA.

You posted again, called me a 'big mouth know-it-all' (because I...linked to the news?), then said 'everybody has to stop speculating, my nameless source says this.' 

We are now here. 

----

Anyway, for those of us who actually just want to talk about the news in this story, here's Gothamist's new coverage:

https://gothamist.com/news/bus-driver-harrowing-bronx-crash-disputes-mtas-claims-he-refused-drug-test

Quote

The bus operator who crashed through guard rails, sending a bus dangling over the edge of an overpass in the Bronx, is disputing the MTA's claims that he refused to take a drug test.

Everton Beccan, 55, and the union held a press conference outside his home on Saturday, where Beccan asserted that he did not refuse to take a drug test, after the MTA claimed he refused to take one required under federal rules.

"I did not refuse to take a drug test," Beccan told reporters, still reeling from a painful jaw fracture as well as neck and back pain. "The hospital took the drug test."

Around 11 p.m. on Thursday night, Beccan was driving a Bx35 bus on University Avenue when he tried to turn left onto a ramp to the George Washington Bridge, but instead, sped through guard rails, sending the accordion bus over the edge of an overpass above the Cross Bronx Expressway.

Beccan and seven other passengers were injured in the harrowing crash, the FDNY said Sunday. One person was in critical condition after being rescued, the NY Times reported.

The MTA's Interim Transit President Sarah Feinberg said on Friday the driver had refused a federally mandated drug and alcohol test after passing a breathalyzer test at the scene. But a day later, the union revealed a document showing Beccan underwent a urine drug test at the hospital on Friday morning around 10:30 a.m. -- nearly 12 hours after the crash. The results of that test have not been made public.

Richard Davis, the vice president of the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority, said Beccan feels like a "damned employee," and despite being in pain, felt compelled to hold a press conference to counter the MTA's claims.

"He feels very emotionally hurt by that," Davis said. "He said no one, no one asked him to take a drug test. He wouldn't refuse it. So he doesn't know where that's coming from."

The MTA, however, is still disputing Beccan's claims.

Quote

"This was a tragic incident for all involved and the MTA continues to provide the full facts to the public," MTA Chief Communications Officer Abbey Collins said in a statement. "Unfortunately, the bus operator refused his FTA and MTA-mandated drug and alcohol test multiple times. This is a straightforward, nonnegotiable, federally-mandated requirement of all bus operators and other safety sensitive personnel."

"We cannot make any exceptions to this requirement nor should we," Collins said.

The authority released an internal document showing that an MTA drug and alcohol technician had communicated with a doctor, who said Beccan had refused to take a drug test after 3 a.m., when the tech arrived.

"I told the doctor that he will need to tell me to my face that he was refusing the test, and the consequences of not taking the test," the tech wrote in a letter dated January 15th. The tech wrote the doctor passed on the message, but the employee still refused, the letter reads.

Davis noted that it appears the tech did not speak to the employee directly.

"The MTA admitted themselves that no one went to the room," Davis said. "How would the tech know that he even refused a drug test because the tech never asked him?"

An MTA official said the tech did everything possible to reach Beccan, and noted the doctor indicated Beccan had refused, not that he was incapable of responding. The MTA official also emphasized Beccan needed to take the federally mandated test that's required to be administered expeditiously, rather than the urine drug test taken hours later.

An MTA dispatcher had asked Beccan for a statement in the hospital room that evening, which he could not provide due to his jaw injuries, but no other MTA rep had spoken to him that night, according to Davis.

G.P.S. data indicated the bus was going 17 to 26 miles per hour at the turn, where it should have been going 3 to 4 miles per hour. Beccan said during the press conference he lost control of the bus as he was making the turn. He had eased off the gas pedal, but the bus "just took off," he said.

Davis says he and TWU have requested maintenance and mechanical records for the bus that Beccan was driving, but the authority has not yet provided those. The MTA said there's no indication there was a mechanical failure, but the investigation continues.

If anybody wants to come at me for *checks notes* linking to Channel 7, I'm here all day for it. Said from the start, glad everybody's ok, we'll see what happened.

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Let's be clear here. I'm referring to you because you think you know it all. That's correct. None of us were there and we should let this play out. Regardless of what the news has said, you've played judge and jury with the guy from the start. You should speak for yourself instead of acting like you represent everybody. 

As far the news goes, the info has varied depending on the outlet, so again, I take all of that with a grain of salt.

You gotta stop making shit up whole cloth.

You're welcome to go back in this thread and read everything I and others have said, and try to find me a post that reflects that. We've read from the news and looked at the reports.

Not sure why you think your nameless source speculation is somehow better than everybody else's.

Moving on! 

17 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No, I'm talking about people in this forum that jumped to conclusions, trying to guess what this guy did wrong without any factual information. I'm still waiting to see how this all plays out.  I know the guy from Progressive Action. We get along fine. He's in my advocacy group. He's already posting about this.

16 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well I just spoke to someone in the know. Despite the way this news article appears and the tests he took, apparently the bus operator refused a federal mandated drug and alcohol test, which is what the  is talking about, not the ones he took in the hospital, and if that's the case, the thinking is he will indeed be fired. Again, I'm going to wait and see how this plays out.

I am also hearing that they found skid marks at the scene. I'm not saying anything else but not looking good for him now, especially with him speaking without a lawyer or any representation.

Okay, so, in summary, despite calling everybody a "big mouth know-it-all," you just posted exactly the same thing as the news reports only through a nameless "somebody in the know." We already know speed was a factor, because that was in the black box reporting from CBS that I linked to days ago.

Here's the thing: nobody knows exactly what happened. Everybody has been guessing at the situation, as they have a right to do, and going off news reports. Nobody has been saying anything with certainty or accusing anybody. What is the point of slandering people on the forum for doing exactly what you're doing? 

5 hours ago, RailBus63 said:

Did he have a right to refuse?  

As SoSpectacular said, you can do whatever you'd like, but it's a guaranteed way to tilt the entire investigation against you. Even if you are entirely clean, the worst thing to do is raise the specter of doubt among the TA or PD investigators, who are just looking for a good reason to nail you. Any resistance or lack of cooperation is reason for them to give you a hard time, and unless you have deep pockets for a lawyer, I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

8 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

It's annoying af that mymta and the app used to purchase LIRR/MN tickets are separate apps. Then there's a third app called train time.

Yeah, at this point my old-ass phone has BusTime, TrainTime, MyMTA, MTA eTix... I lose track. 

13 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Seatbelts save lives.

Which brings me to my question – how the hell did the 8 passengers not get killed? 50 foot fall, that's like 15m, you figure gravity has them falling for at least 1-2 seconds, or even longer if the trailer/accordion held it in place. Either the passengers were all in the rear trailer section, or they held on reallllly tight.

7 minutes ago, Snorunts said:

Are there any updates on the remaining 5 2007 Hybrids at Fresh Pond Depot (6819, 6824-6825, 6834, 6836)? When was the last time each of them ran and have any been retired since?

All those buses have been retired for more than two weeks.

4271 now has LED headlights...and still wears the old paint scheme. That's a combo I didn't expect to see. 4562 was the only bus to have that combo before.

3 minutes ago, +Young+ said:

Although I agree with you, from watching the following Press Conference below, which is only 10 minutes compared to the board meetings which take over an hour, one of the things which was mentioned is that the Bus Operator had a "broken jaw." Therefore, if the Bus Operator had a "broken jaw," how come they were "quick" to say that the Bus Operator refused to take a drug (urine) test, since he/she was probably not able to consume any water?

I'm not a Doctor or a Physician or anything to that nature, however if someone can clarify this for me, I would appreciate it. From my perspective, this is a "red flag" in itself, however that's just me.

Dunno, I like to defend the op too, but that doesn't make any sense to me. You can pee in a cup without gulping a bottle of water first. Especially a B/O, who 9 times out of 10 wishes he were closer to a bathroom and ready to take his relief...

Wow. Some bad news coming from Channel 7: https://abc7ny.com/8-injured-after-mta-bus-veers-off-road-dangles-from-overpass/9671812/

Quote

"We have been informed by the police that the bus operator passed a breath test at the scene, however upon arrival at the hospital, the bus operator refused to take an MTA mandated drug and alcohol test," Warren said. "This is obviously troubling. The investigation is ongoing."

Quote

The MTA said the GPS revealed the bus appeared to be traveling at 17-26 mph during the incident.

"We know the speed limit on the road is 25 mph, but the appropriate speed for taking a turn such as this is between 3 and 4 miles per hour," MTA Chief Safety Officer Pat Warren said. "So we can say at this time while the investigation is ongoing, speed is clearly a factor and is obviously of great concern to us."

Just glad everybody's alright. 

Thank you for your counsel, Father Time. We're allowed to look at what happened and wonder. It's a pretty crazy scene. Nobody is running to the press or claiming anything as fact.

44 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I’ve been looking at the area on Street View and the only thing I can figure is a turn too fast and wide or brake failure.

Do XD60s come with ABS?

Yeah, or swerving to avoid somebody, a la Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 ...

I think every major order has ABS for a while...even some of the new fleet has regenerative braking as an option, F1-style.

You think it could be a medical thing, but I heard the B/O was walking around helping passengers after.

Holy shit!!!! 

Pardon my French but JESUS that is a sight I never thought I'd see. How in the hell did that happen?

B/O must be counting one of his nine lives, dios mio....

2 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

3280 is a LGA bus.

And this means that CP is down to 15 detroits.

That explains why it's not at CP. 3051 looks like a definite goner though.

4174 joins 4173 at MV, transfer from CS.

3301 CP to LG.

2824, 2848, 2907, 3051, 3280 to scrap from CP.

I tried to find data on this, and from a cursory search, seems like the closest thing is a case study in Chicago where 90% of tickets were substantiated in court. In the ones that weren't, it was mainly for right on red where the vehicles stopped and then turned, which doesn't apply in NYC obviously. Chicago's DOT says a review of 300 controversial catches were all accurate. Does anybody have real numbers about how effective or ineffective they are? I've only ever seen them work accurately in my driving and walking experience. 

Just now, Lawrence St said:

While I agree with you that there is a serious reckless driver problem in NYC, there is also an increase in reckless bikes. I can't count how many times I've seen a bike almost cause an accident or crash into a pedestrian.

Which is bad! For sure. But police resources are limited. If a biker hits a pedestrian, it's rarely if ever a fatal collision – there is one every few years. If a car hits a pedestrian, it's often death. I'd much rather see the NYPD focused on the perps most likely to cause death or serious injury.

One of the easiest fixes is something Albany needs to allow: more red-light cameras around the city. As a driver, I don't understand why anybody is against these...I can understand being annoyed about speed cameras, but running a red light is not a victimless crime, and it puts other drivers and pedestrians/bikers in danger too.

Bikers, who lead to a fatality maybe once every six years, can be our focus with after we tackle car fatalities, which lead to a dozen dead bikers, 130 dead pedestrians, and 50 or so dead drivers each year. Proportionality – don't miss the forest for the trees.

Every day I learn a new detail about the original R1-9 signs. The original readings must have been really out there, and nothing like what the museum cars/what lasted today.

Check this out (not my photo). The route GG reading says 'GG CROSSTOWN' instead of 'GG BKLYN QUEENS,' which I'd always thought was original; and the destination reading is exactly a service designation reading 'BROOKLYN CROSSTOWN.' This is sort of like the C/D readings which were initially 'CONCOURSE FORDHAM' in the destination box. These must have been spliced out very early on, and I'm not even sure if later cars in the order came with this. I have an R1-9 sign where the GG reading seems to be original vellum and reading BKLYN QUEENS, so maybe that shifted over the years. 

1 hour ago, Lance said:

The 32s have averaged 35K miles between failure for years now, whereas the 46s have only recently dropped below 60K MDBF. In my opinion, that's not bad for trains from 1975. That doesn't include the accommodations that need to be made for the 32s to even run these days. If by some miracle the 32s were pressed back into active service, they're pretty much limited to the Jamaica line or their HVAC starts overheating and they get taken out of service. Isn't that why the 160s were temporarily placed onto the A and C lines when the 179s were taken out of service last summer?

Well, yes and no re: MDBF between these two cars. One is a specialty fleet that can be used for targeted service and the other is considered a mainstay. The R32 MDBF covered what, a few dozen cars over those months of emergency service? The R46s are about 700 cars in total. It's a much bigger problem to have the R46 fleet at 45k across the board than it is to have the R32 fleet at 30-35k in targeted capacity. The consequence of breakdowns on the R32 fleet affects only a small number of riders on an infrequent basis, whereas breakdowns across the R46 fleet affect many more people across many more lines. So if the MTA's goal is the remove the fleet with the most breakdowns, then yes, remove the R32s and it's job done. But if the goal is to provide the most consistent service possible, then all efforts should be focused on raising the R46 fleet's MDBF by any means necessary (which may, or may not, involve running older and less reliable cars in targeted fill-in service).

And by the way, since the R46 MDBF is on average so low, it stands to reason that there are ~150 R46s performing with MDBF worse than or equal to the R32 fleet. I'm fudging the numbers in my head, but that would be something of a standard deviation. That would mean there is an entire R32 fleet's worth of 46s doing as badly as the 32s, in other words.

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Today's M5/M55 would have one believe that the ridership pattern of the old M5 (Greenwich Village - GWB) consisted of riders tanking out from either end of the route in Midtown (b/w Herald Sq. & Bryant Park), which was never the case.... Said rendition of the M5 addressed multiple overlapping patterns south of that aforementioned part of Midtown & the M6 complemented it from 59th, with addt'l coverage on down to S. Ferry..... It was the perfect storm..... Instead of providing overlapping service (old M5/M6 pattern) between 59th & Houston, there's only an overlap, within Midtown, between 31st & 44th.... MTA can keep their eyes wide shut when it comes to these things, but mines are wide tf open......

Among other things, this is why the M55 is basically an afterthought & the M5 from the north dies around Columbus Circle....

100%. And they ignored all the old patterns, like people going between the UWS and Greenwich Village, was extremely common; or the people working in the East Midtown area who took the M1 towards South Ferry, also common. Herald Square isn't a destination for people on the M5, least of all Penn Station, etc. The M55 is what it is, but it isn't as effective as the M6 was, it's on a duplicate on a duplicate via 5th, and there's still no Limited on 6th. Whole thing is so silly. And the worst part is all of us watched the car crash in live action: M5 gets extended way, way too far, ruining a route that had worked for more than 75 years, then the overextended route gets cut, and they get cute about it and cut it too far. Senseless.

5 minutes ago, Snorunts said:

Should we expect any more 2009-10 NG Hybrids getting repainted or are they done since they're one of the older buses in the system? If any, 3984, 3995, 4063, 4432, 4438, 4115, 4615, 4630 should be first in line.

Why do you think those should be first? Some of those were repainted not so long ago.

Almost the entire 4245-4278 set of Yukon NGs is in original paint as delivered and looks terrible. The oldest paint schemes in the system at 12 years old, except the MCIs.