N6 Limited

FASTRACK is for short duration maintenance work. Anything large-scale that requires the track to be out of service for more than 7 consecutive hours (closer to 5 in practice) needs a longer shutdown.

 

 

Agreed 100% about the announcements. But if the problem is congestion, then holding in stations just pushes the problem back.

In that case, let us know.

Something like:

"This is 14th Street Union Square, Transfer is available to the and trains. "Ladies and Gentlemen there is train traffic ahead of us. If you do not want to get stuck on this train take the or find alternative routing. Thank you for riding New York City Transit. Stand Clear of the closing doors please"

Extending the Q27 to the current Q77 terminal would go about making the Q77 obsolete... The MTA would happily & easily kill off the 77 & force riders to have to xfer to any of the myriad of buses that runs to Jamaica from SE Queens.... The masses would pile onto Q27's, due to the fact that service, quite frankly, is more frequent than the Q77.... That's (part of) the logic behind extending the Q27 southward in the first place (better service than what the Q77 provides).....

 

Furthermore, all this so-called "bickering" over the two routes, but you're adding to it....

 

You mean the Trains are manhattan centric....

 

Anyway, Again, I understand that some areas within the same general area/region/whatever you wanna call it, are a PITA to get to, from that same general area/region, etc.... The problem with having other/some new route(s) connecting the SE Queens Jamaica feeders w/i SE Queens is that ppl. from other areas northward really aren't tryna get to SE Queens....

 

For example, this is the problem with combining the Q76/Q77 & having a "Francis Lewis" route (which has been suggested on here before)....

 

....Should read WEST of utopia.

Yes I meant the subway is Manhattan centric. A Q27 would work because it's packed in the morning with kids going to HS on Hillside Ave, Riders could also use it to get to Springfield HS. It also connects to the subway, and a route's routing doesn't have to have ridership go terminal to terminal. How many riders take the Q3 from the Airport to the Jamaica Bus Terminal?  NE Queens riders don't have to go to SE queens but riders from SE Queens may hed up north to connect to other bus routes including NICE routes. 

A Q76-77 route would be empty, they look lite most of the time anyway. and wouldn't connect to anything major.

I wonder why they won't ever do Roosevelt-Continental. That's when they should do this work they're doing this weekend with one express track out, three services on the local, with flagging on the adjacent tracks. (now increased to the span of two stations), plus all the other little work they're doing here and there, plus a major signal project coming up.

It would be easier to replace that section with the buses (just straight down Broadway and Queens Blvd).

I'd rather them shut the line down and get it over with , than to sit on trains going 5MPH with many stationary moments

Whats this major signal project coming up? is that to get ready for CBTC?

They will eventually.

I wonder how they'll handle that. Local Shuttle buses and telling thru riders to use the between Jamaica and Manhattan? 

Ugh I hate delays like that. At least they're warning riders though.  Didn't they have a fastrack a few weeks ago?

 The real issue to me is when they don't notify the pubic about delays. If i can avoid it i WILL. Last week and were running express to 71st, and so there was a conga line, and even after 71st trains were crawling. I'm not fond of being stuck between stations either. I would have taken the where I could at least use my phone. They say "allow additional travel time" but that somewhat implies that warning applies the stops being skipped. 

That's another thing, when there's a delay, and instead of holding trains in stations with the doors open, they let them stack up in between stations, no one wants to be stuck on a train. That's even more annoying when its an express train and the locals are just whizzing by.

For example,if you KNOW there are issues, inform us. I don't want to leave 71'st Continental ,"southbound" and get stuck for 20-30 mins while and trains are whizzing by, Inform your customers, I would have gladly switched to the local train and been on my way, and if there was a problem further down the line, I'd rather be told at or before Roosevelt Ave so I can take the instead of getting stuck between stations on the express or local tracks between stations "south" of Roosevelt Ave.

No. Swapping terminals with the 27 and 77 will make the 27 even more unreliable. Transfers between the Q4 and N1 are allowed with pay per rides and paper transfers. You know you can take the 27 to Hempstead Avenue for the N1 during rush hours. Other times N6 to the N1 or walk to Hempstead. The 77 is slated to get Sunday service next year.

I'm well aware of my transit options. I'm thinking about the times where I actually needed the bus to make trips like that, now I just drive , I get to the mall in about 15 mins. However, there were times where I used to work late in Lynbrook, I had to take the N4 to Jamaica, and the N6 back. If the q27 ran to Merrick, I would have taken that as a"shortcut". The N1, N25, N31/N32 weren't running that late. Speaking of which, perhaps the MTA should do like London and have Night bus routes.

Also, on a map, taking the N6 to the N1 sounds practical, but in actuality, you should see how many people get flagged at Springfield Blvd on a daily basis. I would count at LEAST one full bus load.

As for the Q77, will it run hourly on Sundays? it's a ghost town outside of rush hours.

Yes, the bus network is incomplete.... However, the network in SE Queens is the way it is so that folks can get to/from Jamaica....

This is what those folks wanted many moons ago & they got it.... Just looking at how indirect the Q77 (speaking of which) is, is enough proof of that...

 

Your gripe here is that getting to Green Acres from within SE Queens is a PITA, yeah I get it.... However, this does not mean you should opt to extend an already busy route like the Q27 (which is indirect enough, coming from as far as Flushing, transporting the masses that it does)..... I will say that the Q4 extension makes more sense than a Q27 extension of sorts - My thing is, I just do not see SE Queens folks riding to Elmont (Elmont ROAD, QJT.... Elmont ROAD) to xfer to the N1 (which is infrequent as it is) to get to some Green Acres.... As much as it sucks, you can't fix every "hole" there is in the network....

 

I find it unfair that you're using this example (direct SE Queens - Green Acres travel) as to why mass transit isn't as useful.....

 

Those are valid examples, a shopping area as close as Green Acres is a chore to get to. Even 5 towns is a chore to get to, the Guy R Brewer Routes only cross the Q3. It's nice that the Buses are Manhattan centric, and the bus routes are subway feeders, but they should have a few alternatives at least connecting the "spokes". I can drive to the Northern Bronx in about 20 mins, by bus and subway takes 2 hours.

Would it make sense to extend the from Metropolitan Ave along the Freight line to Jackson Hights/Roosevelt Ave?

Maybe not full trunks, but 24/7 shutdowns are the most efficient way to do work, whether it be out of face on 2/3 track lines or closing a couple tracks on 4 track lines with barricades to avoid flagging. Case in point: Chicago's Red Line South project, which started in May and is expected to reopen in two weeks.

 

The Queens Blvd FASTRACK is posted. Full closure, not just local/express.

Oh tha'ts like the last QB FasTrack.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/fastrack_EFMR.htm

As for the Brooklyn Scoot Service, where would Hempstead and Far Rockaway Trains Terminate?

Could They Possibly offer a Atlantic Terminal, Belmont Park/Queens Village, scoot service that accepts City Ticket fares 24/7?

The extended subway would serve present riders from Hollis and QV. Most of the folks want the subway anyway, so this would be a godsend for them.

But the big issue here would be dealing with that textbook-example of bureaucratic over-regulation, the FRA. The FRA does not like it when transit and mainline rail run on the same tracks and even makes a stink over transit and mainline trains running too close to each other on the same r.o.w. - even if on separate tracks. They do allow waivers, but as far as I know, they require some sort of time separation. That's not possible as far as subways and LIRR sharing the same train line is concerned.

What exactly is the purpose of this separation?

Nah, bobtehpanda and lirr42 convinced me recently separation isn't needed by the FRA.

How so?

When is NJT going to get a bus map(s)

hows the M34 SBS? I'm going to Comic Con next week and usually I take the to 34th and walk. But since I'll be walking all around the convention center, I was thinking of taking the SBS over.

Why can't they allow an exception to do like the PATH train,extend the subway along the outer tracks and stop at Hollis, Queens Village and end at Belmont Park and the LIRR use the inner tracks?

@trainmaster5: And don't forget LIRR is also improving waiting areas along the branch. As of writing, they're upgrading Queens Village waiting room to be more modern and pleasant. If they didn't care then they wouldn't invest in it.

 

---------------------------------

 

But alright, back to my LIRR idea. A subway extension would be the best but let's assume LIRR is gonna offer CityTicket on weekdays for all people in CTZ and maybe up the TPH a little. How many people do you guys think would (consider to) take LIRR then?

Clearly you don't live in QV. most people in the area don't care to use the LIRR except later in the evening when waiting for the bus may suck, and on weekends when headed to Brooklyn or there is construction on the QB line.

Is it actually enjoyable operating any shuttle train...? Back n'd forth back n'd forth..

The on 42nd and Franklin must be horribly repetitive for the T/O's.

Today I had a not so nice day, and it changed who I'm gonna be voting for. There was absolutely no excuse for the pathetic service I got from NICE today. 

I needed to be in Glen Cove by 5:30pm. So I figured getting the n22 that arrives in Westbury at 3:36pm, to the n27 that leaves RF at 3:57pm would give me enough time, as there's another n27 that leaves at 4:27pm if need be. Well the n22 didn't show up by 3:50pm, so I gave up on it  knowing the next n22 didn't arrive in Westbury for awhile (the 3:57pm n22x from Hicksville) so I walked over to the train station. As I did that crush loaded n22 passed but I wasn't gonna squeeze on. I hopped on 3:58pm train but came at 4:01pm, no good, since I'd never get to Mineola in time for the 4:07pm train, so I got off at Carle Place before anyone checked my ticket, and just walked over to Glen Cove Rd since I wasn't gonna chance that n22 again. Then NICE strikes again, the n27 doesn't show up until 4:55pm, over 20 minutes late. The farebox had a transfer jammed in it so I got a free ride, and the engine alarm going off was giving me a headache. I don't arrive in Glen Cove until 5:45pm, 15 minutes late for an appointment that I left for 2 1/2 hours ago...I probably could've WALKED there faster.

On the way I met some passengers, including one woman who works at the Burger KIng in Garden City Park, she told me earlier this week the n24 that she takes never showed up, and neither did the next one after that, she wound up walking all way from RF to her job, and not one n24 passed...WTF? Another couple told me they dont even bother going out on weekends, since the n23 always leaves Roslyn before the n27 arrives. They've written NICE and they said they'd look into it, they never do. How come this crap is still happening? It's been a year and a half since they made those changes to the n27 and they still haven't fixed the issue, it's clear they never will.

I know I'm sure Yuki will love this post, and I really have been trying to give NICE the benefit of the doubt. I was hoping with the additional funding they've gotten that service would improve, but it's clearly not. The irregular schedules dont help, the n22 can have 40 minute gaps followed by 10-20 min gaps, it's a recipe for bunching. I'm allowed to change my mind and I have. I'm not a fan of Tom Suozzi, but Mangano's running the bus system on such a small amount of county subsidy, it's pathetic, it shows how little he regards us. At least with Suozzi there's a chance, I say a chance, that more money will be put into the bus system. And if more is and NICE still can't deliver reliable service, maybe its time to bring back the .

I saw firsthand today why NICE is losing so many riders. That woman who works in Garden City Park said she's tired of allowing 4 hours to get to work and still being late, she's going to start taking the LIRR and walk from the Merillon Ave station.

If someone asked me if I was better off with bus service when Tom Suozzi and the MTA were running things, my honest answer would have to be yes.

I had the n35 every 20-30 minutes all times Mon-Sat. I had regular spaced n22 service usually every 20-30minutes. I had the n27 running its full route, full time. Enough of this express BS, just have limiteds, bring back what was around prior to Jan.1.2012, and call it a day.

When I took a trip on the n23/n27 it was clear that the N27 is one bus/driver going in a constant loop. So when the bus leaves early, riders should get the bus number when it comes and driver badge ID and report them, In fact, they should give whomever a few words for being a jerk. They're SUPPOSED to wait it's a scheduled connecting service. 

Since the GPS system isn't implemented yet, they should have the N27 and N23 drivers linked somehow, via walkie talkie or have a dispatcher there at all times. Perhaps they should have one at Northern Blvd also for the N20 connection.

Edit: almost forgot, I'm a bit confused. You said you hope service would have improved with the additional funding from the fare increase, and you believe it clearly has not improved,  and yet you think Suozzi potentially increasing funding would help?

APC isn't that smart, it only records OTP and ons/offs and not origin-destination/transfer pairs.

I realize that, I was thinking to the extent of bus systems studying ridership from APC around certain time frames to implement something like that.

It was crushed from 169th. I'm actually happy that n6X service was extended. I think it should be until 8pm at least, but its a start

Yes, this is why the N6x didn't do well when it started at 179th. n6 riders know better to stay on that past 169th because they may not be able to board the bus and you're definitely not getting a seat. At least if you get off at 169th, you have the option to walk to the bus terminal to guarantee that you board and/or get a see. Until they address that , short turns to 179th are going to be empty. Not to mention when the MTA had N6 short turns to 179th it caused issues, because people would get on wanting to go to the terminal.

Will they eventually have trunk shutdown Fast Tracks that are 24/7 and not just 10pm-5am? 

Well, each future has its drawbacks, and it is important that these be discussed.

 

Identified problem: the subway does not extend far enough, and many riders must use lengthy bus rides to get to their nearest subway station.

 

Option 1: Extend the subway to 212th and build a Park and Ride.

 

Pros: Yay, the subway got extended east for once! Riders on the Q17, Q2, Q3, Q110, Q76, Q77, and Q43 will no longer have to go all the way into Jamaica to transfer. The bus network can be optimized to reflect this fact.

 

Cons: You'd be throwing a park and ride into an already congested interchange (GCP/Clearview/Hillside/212th). The median cannot host a parking garage because that would mean three highly trafficked signal intersections within extremely short distances of each other, all with heavy left turning traffic. This would seriously muck up traffic. As for other locations, the area is densely populated (by American standards) and would require some very expensive eminent domain.

 

It would also be extremely disruptive during construction of the station. While this is inherently true for all options passing under 212th/Hillside, this would be especially true in the case of building a terminal under 212th, assuming we're building proper relay tracks for the , any necessary storage space, etc.

 

 

I was thinking of building ramps to the garage from Hillside, Clearview and GCP.  I was just thinking that cars already heading west can pull right in and jump on the subway.  They could have garage ushers like they do at Disney World, .

I'd prefer to drive to this park & ride and use my unlimited or PPR Metrocard on the subway than to somehow get to the LIRR pay that fare and STILL have to use my metrocard. 

Technically the Park and Ride station could be "Francis Lewis - Clearview". Right between the two. The the Mezz and stairs at both ends will go to Francis Lewis and 212/Park and Ride. The tail tracks can curve up under the Clearview Expressway while building the multi-story garage with provisions to continue the line straight or down towards Jamaica Ave.

@N6 Limited: I never stated or even wanted to state "take LIRR instead of NICE". In fact, as you know from the NICE subforum I'm actually a big NICE fan. But in this case LIRR would be the cheapest option for people from QV and Hollis. Peak service = every 30 minutes. That could be upped to 30 minutes off-peak too. Prices are too high now but they can be lowered a bit by introducing CityTicket on weekdays. That would make it $4 which is acceptable. Or they could keep it like it is and introduce a free subway transfer for people boarding from a station in CTZ.

 

I don't see why Hollis is a problem in the first place. People from northern Hollis can use the bus or take their bike to Jamaica-179th. It's not that far. People from southern Hollis, I can see why. St Albans LIRR is not that far off but transferring at Jamaica would be inconvenient.

I know you didn't state take LIRR instead of nice, I was just saying in general, a lot of people like to say "they can use LIRR, Use LIRR" etc. But if they did have city ticket on weekdays that would be a nice addition.

The problem with Hollis or QV is not everyone lives by the station, and there are other communities in Queens, like Cambria Heights, were people would rather drive to the subway than to deal with the LIRR and parking. Or taking a pokey NYC bus, etc This is why dollar cabs are popular in NYC. Same as with any LIRR station. Someone in Baldwin, may live by the Southern State Parkway, that's not near the Baldwin LIRR station.

I was thinking of Exit ramps from the Clearview and GCP going tight into the garages. and ramps from Hillside Ave.

Another Idea I just thought of, is extending beyond 212th street to Belmont Race Track for another Park and ride. Traffic from the LIE, Northern State/GCP  can use the 212th Park and Ride

Riders from SE Queens and Southern State can use the one at Belmont Park.

Free Parking or $1 parking would attract riders.

Or people from Queens Village and Hollis can just take LIRR for a one-seat ride to Atlantic Terminal and use BMT Eastern Division from there.

If you think the LIRR is expensive now,  how expensive would it be by the time this idea would be built?

Also, Queens Village and Hollis have one station, how will people get to those stations? Car? Bus? Cab? then still transfer to the subway? 

Train service isn't very frequent, and it's expensive (and depending on where you're going, might not be faster.)

 

Sure, CityTicket is $4, but trains come even less frequently on weekends.

Train service on the Hempstead branch is hourly off peak and weekends/ I don't even know how much it is peek but it's about $9 to Penn Station.

As a note to everyone, because I see it all of the time LIRR should not be suggested as an alternative to Subway Extension ideas and Nice Bus service plans, there is a reason why people are not using the LIRR, whether it be price, service, destinations or convenience. 

Most people that would say use the LIRR from QV may still have to transfer to the subway once they get to Manhattan or wherever they're going. That's an additional cost. 

Currently Queens Village to Penn Station/Atlantic Terminal one way is $7 off peak, $9.50 peak. As opposed to $2.50 bus/subway, or "no additional cost" with an unlimited metrocard.

It's not as simple as "Just use the LIRR". The same goes for Nice Bus trips. "N6/N22/N24/N27/N4 riders can just use the LIRR", NO!

 

But as it pertains to this particular discussion/debate/shitstorm, you're right - It was the added shit that exacerbated matters...

The defensiveness is gonna come, I'll be fair... but it was the falsities & the evasiveness that did/does it for me... This is how you know someone is on BS....

I don't even get all too heavy on the "proff" (proof) stuff (like ridership stats & stuff like that - I don't need stats to tell me, for example, that the Q58 carries heavy throughout the day), but it's the blatant lies that insults intelligence (talking about there is demand for NE Queens - Bronx state & Calvary hospitals)....

 

I mean come on....

 

As judge judy used to say... Don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining!

 

 

Well at least we're off this whole throgs neck thing (for now at least)

 

However... I don't know how many times I've seen both of these suggested over the years, but I guess I'll oblige.....

 

- The Q27 to Merrick quite frankly, I've been tired of hearing about (since it was rumored/"studied" to do as such).... To me, it seems arbitrary as hell to end 27's there, the Q27 is already a superroute enough as it is, and it would go about rendering the Q77 to being almost useless....

 

- The Q4 to Elmont.... I'm really not seeing what is there to gain by having Q4's do this.

I honestly don't believe having it connect to the N1 would be worth it...

Ok I can understand that, I remember him saying that the cars going north on the Wantagh parkway in the mornings were headed to LIJ. 

Anyway. A Q27 links the eastern side of Queens. the bus network sucks and does not allow for connectivity.  If I want to go to Green Acres Mall from the QV LIRR Station I have to take the Q27 to 120th Ave, Wait for the crappy Q77, which doesn't run on Sundays either, and then transfer to the Q5 or Q85. 

If I'm on Linden Blvd and 225th Street I cant take the Q4 and easily transfer to the N1. I could walk from the terminal at the parkway to Elmont Road though. I'm not even sure if that transfer works with PPR cards.  Or take the Q4, Q27, Q5/85 or take the Q4 back to Merrick and then the Q5.

Again, the Queens bus network sucks. Nassau may be a separate county but transportation doesn't have to be completely segregated. This is another reason why people would rather drive.

They want more people to use mass transit? make it useful..

The Q27 should have stayed at Queens Village LIRR. Merrick looks like a bad place to turn buses around. I mean was it really that bad to put a bus on Springfield? Same goes for the Q4 to Elmont. It just looks like a bad place to turn buses around. In addition to potential community opposition.

They don't have to turn the Q27 at 120th they could turn it with the Q77, hell the Q27 and Q77 could swap terminals.

Perhaps the Q27 (or another route) should become an outer loop/horseshoe, similar to the Q17 is like an inner loop. It would connect to the northern Queens, down Springfield, then back to Jamaica or even the .

And there's no NICE service literally anywhere near there.  Garden City CAVEdwellers at their finest.  That park also right next to the abandoned St. Paul's Church and school...

Yeah its a bit of a walk!

N40/N41 is a bit of a walk, but they can use Able Ride to get there also.

I was on the 6:48 n6X out of 165 yesterday. Crushed all the way to the front all the way until Hilton. Really friendly B/O though, he was telling me and a few other passengers about how he thinks the MTA will come back. All the passengers were complaining and saying that service sucks worse on the n6 since Veolia took over.

 

I don't really have complaints, but I frequent three of the highest ridership NICE Bus routes (n6, n15 & n4) so I'm more fortunate than some of the other riders.

Was it crushed from the Terminal, 169th or 179th?

One good thing is that they extended n6X service until about 7:20pm.

Rode a midday n35 from Westbury today, the 1:05pm trip and it's the first time I did so in quite awhile. The hourly service is not enough, by Merrick & Privado things were already getting crowded. Must've picked up 20 passengers along Post Ave alone...I got off at Privado, I'm sure it got crushed at NCC.

They gotta restore 30 min headways middays on it. Its stuff like this that causes ridership to drop, ppl dont want to wait an hour for a bus and then be jammed and maybe not even get a seat.

That's their efficiency plan, I'm sure quite a few people got off at Roosevelt Field. If it got crushed at Nassau, it's not like they don't have the N16 and N6x to use.

It's like when people were complaining about the n23 getting full on Roslyn Road, everyone was able to get on and half the bus spilled out at Hillside Ave to take the n22 anyway, and so technically an additional bus would have been a waste of resources.

Not that I'm condoning their actions, since I now take the bus to commute and I avoid the n6 if I can, in the mornings I prefer the rush hour n1 trips, and if I know I'm going to miss the last one in the evening at 7:30pm, I'll find something to do which postpones my arrival in Jamaica till about 11pm, when the n6 isn't a clown car disguised as a bus.

I made a post the other day about how I can see why there was a drop in ridership, when I said I was on a bus with about 65 people on it, It wasn't hyperbole, there was literally about 65 people on the bus, all 41 seats filled and about 20+ standees. 

I wonder how they're going to implement the Automatic Passenger Counting systems. They should put them on every bus and log every trip so they know exactly what's going on. 

Do agencies that use these APC devices to schedule and interline short turns?

For example, if they know that a large group of riders take the n6 to Franklin Ave, then take the N25 to Great Neck, and also a lot of riders ride from Great Neck to Flushing, do they schedule a driver to do a

N6 - Jamaica - Franklin Square/Franklin Ave then change signs

N25 - Franklin Square - Great Neck then change signs

N20 - Great Neck - Flushing?

Does anyone know any systems that do that?

@Joel: I'm surprised on the fact they started to complain afterwards while NICE clearly asked before the new schedule for input on the n4x. If n4 riders wanted Central Ave so badly, they could've told NICE at that meeting. They aren't organizing a meeting to ask for input on a new route for nothing, you know.

People complained about the N6L to N6x plan at the meetings, they did it anyway, local buses were SLAMMED and expresses were empty.

Because if they REALLY listened, then that stop as well as many other major stops would have been a part of the n4 Express or the n6 Express from the start.

Right

I also spoke at last TAC meeting and told them lots of passengers want n4x to Central Av stop because it's major transfer point to/from n1 bus.

They should have known that already though.I thought they studied ridership and patterns before implementing changes?

@Brett: And they didn't but the do listen. What's your point? Be glad that they listen to demand! I'd die for having those kind of meetings or even public transportation companies that listen to what the people want over here.

They'd better listen, each drop in ridership lowers their profits.

You're much smarter than me and I'm looking for a fight? Says the guy who wanted a bus on the Throgs Neck Bridge.

Whats wrong with a bus on the Throgs Neck Br?

I like how they "added" additional service to the n6 but reduced evening service from Jamaica to 15 min headways after 19:30 and 20 min headways after 21:00, can we say sardine can?

Failure is not easy for such a large organization to admit, so they just make "improvements" than to admit the idea failed.

The n6 Limited connected to all intersecting routes, NICE was trying to lure more choice riders by having a faster service at the expense of existing riders.

Delays Posted: 10/02/2013 8:03AM

Posted: 10/02/2013 8:03AM

Due to a rail condition at Court Sq, the following service changes are in effect:

Southbound & trains are running with delays.

Some southbound trains are running on the line from 36 St (Qns) to 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Ctr.

Allow additional travel time.

Extend the Q27 to the Q5/N4

Extend the Q4 to Elmont Rd