N6 Limited

I mean, I think sending the R past 71st is expensive as a regularly scheduled service - the issue with doing it in response to an unplanned change is different: Even on an express run, it's a 20-25 Minute round trip to 179 from 71.

 

So, what about southbound service? This train is already delayed, mind you, by the express on the local scenario described - so unless you have trains and crews waiting at Jamaica Yard ready to pinch-hit (spoiler alert: you don't) 

 

What will easily happen is there will be a 45 minute gap in Southbound R service, and all hell breaks loose. And I'm not just talking about queens. Crowding on platforms will impact the N/Q/D/ trains which will ripple to the B the F - the M is probably already suspended under this scenario, so the J is overtaxed as it is. 

 

So, extending the R to 179 is not quite a viable "quick fix" option for delays on QBL. 

 

But, you could just turn the thing on the express tracks at union turnpike assuming the trouble zone isn't that far back and there aren't any trains laid up there. 

Union turnpike would help at least.

Perhaps they could send the express on the local to 71st Ave,and the and local behind it. By going express but still terminating at 71st Ave people will get off and wait at Roosevelt for a local train, so it will be quick to clear the train at 71st and get it out the station.

The main issue isn't local service for me, it's the delays and congestion combined with sitting behind terminating trains.

There have been times where all trains are going local on the weekends and you'll have  Manhattan bound and trains held at 75th Ave because of a train sitting at 71'st Ave.   

I will admit that at least once I've seen and trains through routed while trains dwell on the Express track until it's ready to leave. Now, THAT is a reasonable solution because the is not holding up service, if they simply do things like that, people would hate the MTA less. Get us to where we're going, chill with the "train traffic". Put up nets/barriers to stop the "slow zones".  

For me, i'd prefer they shut lines down and get the work done as opposed to 20 weekends and weeknights of 10mph, local, and delay riddled service.

Also, I heard somewhere that sometimes they have to do more frequent repair work because they don't allow enough time for the track bed to cure before re-instituting service?

lol: http://www.city-data.com/forum/long-island/2504622-they-should-increase-daily-fares-lirr-6.html

Well now everyone can see where the buses are, n6's are normally spaced apart evenly when I check for the next bus, sometimes I see bunching, but then you can plan to take the 2nd bus because it will most likely have seats and/or be less crowded, and make less stops.

As for the bus maintenance, Pinepower seems to forget the constant breakdowns on LIB, especially in the summer, as well as the ~50% of buses which did not pass state inspection before being transferred to NICE. Also, aren't most NICE mechanics transplants from LIB?

Speaking of the n70 in the other thread, I happened to see this (the n70 on layover): https://goo.gl/maps/h5t2V5pEnKD2

Looks like the middle of nowhere,are there riders east of SUNY Farmingdale?

It looks like they just straight-up cut those buses from the schedule (frequencies are now every 20 minutes along Hempstead Turnpike instead of every 15 at those times). Sucks for anybody who may be taking evening classes at SUNY Farmingdale (or those 8am classes and then going to work), or anybody who might be working an overnight shift in that industrial part of East Farmingdale. I wonder how much they could be saving, since the depots are at the other end of Nassau County, and there's no other Nassau routes in the immediate area to interline with (except maybe the N79).

Interesting isn't it?

How does the APC work in the case of the n70/71/72? Do they count the people left on the bus after the three routes split?

Since the system counts all boarding and alighting passengers they can see the passenger load of the bus at any point during the route at various times of the day, and how each stop is used. 

When it comes to the n70/71/72, I guess after they split (East of NY24 & NY 109) they check the passenger count, and where riders are alighting/boarding in both directions. I guess those N70 trips were super light and they deemed them a waste of resources.

The first n70 to Hempstead trip is also pushed back 3 hours, to depart at 10:00 AM from Newsday. I guess the DH's back to Hempstead or other areas allow less buses to be utilized, and MICE probably feels that there isn't a high amount of riders during those times to/from Hempstead. 

They probably review the APC information and say "welp, this trip isn't necessary!" lol.

As was said before, cold that drastic (and that sudden) can have a hard effect on the rails. BMT broadway line had 2, both in 2-track territory.

 

Meanwhile, it was brief, but the IRT broadway line was sent screwy during the evening commute by a heavily intoxicated person "rolling around on the platform" at 96 st. As he went from express side to local side of the platform the delays rippled across both lines. Funny to listen to though.

 

 

Ripple effects from the BMT broadway line incident. Remember, Roosevelt Ave is a seperate tower from 71st ave, and Union Turnpike has it's own tower too - but I don't know how often it's staffed. In any case, I think what you have here is a case where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. When there's an incident that has a tower scrambling to divert service, sometimes it's just not feasible to explain the minutia behind the rationale of their decisions to the next tower. Tower A tells the train they're gonna do X then Y, but when the train does X and gets into Tower B's territory, tower B tells them to skip straight to Z. It happens. One of the benefits of CBTC will be at least we don't have that issue, (although we'll just have to deal with everything coming to a screeching halt every time the computer burps)

 

In terms of everyone hauling-ass from the local track to the express track, it's a psychological thing. Everyone wants to be in the "fast lane" At queens plaza people even run over from the R to the M if they come in at the same time thinking the M will leave first, even know they know it's also a Local. (I'm the only jackass who looks at the lineup on the signals and knows which one's really the leader. Unless QBMT takes it away at the last second as they're want to do)

I look at the lineup as well, but sometimes both tracks have a red signal. So you have to see which one changes first and run for it. 

Even though they're both going local, you have to wait for the train in front to go, and then possibly be delayed because of signals and "train traffic" AND you have to deal with the delay clearing out the train at 71st Ave. AND those couple of mins could be the difference between missing and catching a bus (same goes with the express trains)

There were times I went to Queens Center mall and while getting on the local to go toward Forest Hills/ Jamaica the trains are held because of "train traffic" terminating at 71st Ave, meanwhile several express trains zipped by. And sometimes the or that you want to catch is pulling out as the or finally gets into 71tst Ave, it's extremely irritating. And while the thought is "oh there is a train a few min's away" that is not always the case, many times stuff like that happens right before delays and now you have to wait forever for the next train to show up. 

Missing a train or bus, or slight delays can cause cascading delays for passengers as they have to transfer to other trains and buses, etc.

Sometimes they do that, but one has to be careful with this approach. Remember, express-on-the-local trains still have to slow down rather dramatically at each station, so the additional throughput isn't quite that much. Furthermore, by holding that train, the local platforms along the way are now filling up - Now when you're trying to send the next E/F pair Exp-on-the-Lcl, they're behind an already delayed R train that is dwelling longer than normal at each station and they'll quickly be right on it's tail. What's the sense in running express on the local if you're holding outside every station for 30 seconds waiting for the mid-platform-signal to clear. 

 

In my experience they'll usually start with express-on-the-local service adjustments, but once the conga line forms, better to have everyone stop everywhere. 

They said that sending the past 71st Ave is expensive, but can't they just run it express to 179th so that they can get them 's out of the way, then turn them back to 71st Ave? Or are they worried about the extra mileage?

Here's a note on the n19 schedule:

As of January 17th, the n19 no longer travels east of the Sunrise Mall. Please transfer to the s20, s33 for trips towards Babylon.

 

The n19 seems to make makes connections with the S20 , but not so much the S33. I guess it makes sense since the S20 goes to Babylon.

Curious, does anyone know if people transfer between the n72 and S33? 

When there are issues on the Express tracks why do they send all trains local as opposed to sending the express trains "express on the local" to mitigate delays and increase throughput on limited track space?

For example, if there is an issue on Queens Blvd, instead of sending all trains local. Hold the train and send the and/or express in front of it so they can be on their way. The can follow them and make all local stops, and now you've had 3 trains get through in less time, with less cascading delays.

You must be very easy to please then. We all know the true state of this system, and yet so many continue to tip toe around it. Good thing I don't rely on it.

Well, I just use the n6 to get to/from the subway, so for my purposes real time bus info has been very useful. Also, the east bound n6 trips have been on-time leaving the Jamaica bus terminal in the evenings, so I can't complain there.

(Except that I sometimes miss the on-time bus by mins or even seconds because of delays, but that's NYCT's fault, they have one of the highest capacity terminals in the system at 179th street but can't clear trains fast enough to prevent "train traffic" delays which sometimes begin at Union Turnpike or Van Wyck Blvd?   (And while it can be the could be causing it, the delays continue past Van Wyck Blvd, which suggests it wasn't the in those instances.) )

Typically If I'm going deeper into Nassau, I drive. 

I'm still waiting for some to realize that this is happening and that none of the changes NICE is making or have made recently are for the betterment of the system.

Adding bus tracking makes it better for me.

It seems like both the N20H and N21 are scheduled to connect with the N20G.

Also, I thought the timing in column D on the N20 schedule was weird and out of order at first, but it seems like it's ordered for those who may want to transfer at Northern Blvd or along Middle Neck Road to continue their trips. 

They have errors all over the place. It's going to suck for those n21 riders who don't catch on to the mistake at the Glen Cove timepoint (imagining arriving at the time designated, and it not show up, only for you to wait for the next bus for god knows how long, and the find out that the bus actually passes 12 minutes earlier than the time on the schedule). It's like they're purposely doing this in order to bring down ridership in any way they can, in order to justify them cutting it.

 

As for the n16, either they actually go on to HTC, or NICE is really trying to save money on DH (and bring down ridership on the route even more). 

As more people use the Go Mobile/Transit apps it will be less of an issue I guess. For example when I'm catching the bus I just use Transit App to see where the buses are and/or the time expected. Although I keep in mind when the buses from Jamaica are scheduled to leave the bus terminal.

Certain Southbound n16's end at Oak Street and Westbury Blvd? Sounds like an error.

Keeping the NICE section active

2 weeks to go

I was thinking that certain N1 and N6 trips should serve the Queens Village LIRR station via Jamaica Ave and Springfield Blvd. It would make the station convenient to access, especially for those along the Hempstead Turnpike Corridor which is not really near LIRR service. 

Perhaps the initial implementation can be on weekends where one trip per direction per hour (either N6 only, and/or extended N1) serves the station to connect with arriving/departing train's in the same direction, as bus riders are more likely to use the Station because of City Ticket and Queens Blvd track work. 

I did see an N8 on Dutch Broadway with about 7 or so people on it one day.

It should be telling that FamousNYLover is the only one at the N2/8 bus stop

NICE should try to reroute buses to minimize the number of left-turns.  Sometimes you need to wait for 5 or 6 cycles of the light to get through a left-turn signal during rush-hour.  The N22, N22X, N22A and N24 are prime examples of this. 

 

Example #1- the Jamaica-bound N22A should not take the left-turn at Glen Cove Rd/Jericho Turnpike to turn onto Jericho Tpke (since it can take 3 traffic light signals to get thru this mess).  It should continue northbound to Hillside Ave and make the left turn there.

 

Example #2 - the Jamaica-bound N22X should not take the left-turn at Herricks Rd/Jericho Turnpike to turn onto Jericho Tpke (since it can take 5 or 6 traffic light signals to get thru this mess).  it should instead continue northbound on Herricks Road to Hillside Ave and make the left turn there.  It's a slightly longer route by 2 minutes on Hillside Ave since you're no longer taking the diagonal shortcut up Marcus Ave to Hillside Ave, but you'd be saving 10 minutes of sitting at a dead-stop at the traffic light on Herricks Rd/Jericho Turnpike.

Have you suggested that to NICE? They listen to reasonable suggestions.

Rode the n50 this morning from (7:30am out of Hicksville). 13 passengers, ex-Foothill bus (they ride really well!). We followed an n49 so local traffic got on that.

 

The n2, n8, and n81 are on every discontinuation list NICE has put out, even those on the buses which say that n46 trips are becoming n47's. So I'm really starting to doubt what Hound said about them remaining.

Was the n50 empty after crossing Hempstead Turnpike? 

Right, then you're waiting at, and between stations until 71st Ave. It's bad enough that the and have that issue every night. You see the conga line as you pass by on the and .

Perhaps simply adding bus lanes to Northern Blvd will solve the issue.

He's referring to the G.O. on Queens Blvd. As for why the and are being sent local is probably due to work being done on the express tracks as stated earlier.

Yeah, it's because of the G.O. But then we get stuck behind terminating trains, it's really annoying.